AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

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This was recorded a day or so after the children were removed. I saw a picture of him with the family at one of the visits shortly after this started. Of all the faces, his seemed to be the most solemn and distressed. I suspect he had no idea what would really happen. He probably didn't know his siblings would be in foster care for over a year. I suspect he is disillusioned with all of this. Time will tell.

Nobody has been in foster care for over a year. Nor do we know how long it might be.

I would suggest that Hal and Michelle, and their supporters, have lately appeared to dig in their heels in opposition to the authority of DHS and/or the courts. Continuing to claim that they are the only and highest authority in their children's' lives, and that they are Biblically mandated to chastise their children with a rod to drive out evil (not to mention some other possible issues like medical and educational neglect that may still be lurking in the background) is certainly not likely to shorten the possible time-span.
 
I doubt these kids had any idea what they would be getting into as far as foster care.

Why are you blaming the children for this?? That is just shameful.

That's the exact same attitude that many of the commenters on social media take. As well as the attitude that AR Rep. Justin Harris and his wife have taken-- "it's the children's fault! They were possessed by demons! They have reactive attachment disorder from the abuse in their bio-parent home! We are good, God-fearing Christians and can do no wrong! We are being persecuted! Everyone is against us! We didn't do anything wrong!" And the legislator is blaming a 3 and 6 year old for his actions and his problems! Good grief! The arrogance of "we can do no wrong because we are Christians" and the attitude that they should be treated DIFFERENTLY because they are God-fearing Christians is just appalling, IMO.

Do we blame the kids of OTHER child abusers for the abuse and the circumstances of removal?? Is it the kids fault if the parents can't handle the situation as adults, and work to solve the issues? This issue of "blaming" the kids is very juvenile and adolescent. Like children squabbling over who made the mess on the floor. Everyone who thinks this is the children's fault needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror, and grow the hell up, IMO.

The entire situation, is one created by adults, and handling that belongs in the realm of adults. Quit blaming the kids!

I cannot believe ANYONE would insinuate that the kids confused and upset feelings about ending up in foster care are their own fault!! That is outrageous!

The whole situation has to be very, very confusing and upsetting for all the children, even the older ones. Imagine what is going on inside their heads. Love and abuse and religion and heaven and hell all intertwined, and the kids have to "decide" what they will tell the truth about. Their religion is a velvet prison for their emotions and thoughts, IMO. What "should" they minimize or lie about? When is a lie okay? "Do I tell the truth even if my mom and dad get into trouble? Does God want me to lie so I can go home? Do my parents want me to lie, or tell the truth? Do my brothers and sisters want me to lie or tell the truth? What am I supposed to say? Are these foster parents good and nice people, or are they evil liars keeping me from my home and my parents? Should I feel guilty if I like my new friends and school and foster parents? Am I bad if I don't like everything was going on at home? Am I going to hell if I don't like being punished? Am I bad if I like some of the new people I have met? Am I supposed to hate these new people I've met, because they're not like my family at home? Are they good or evil? What happens when I go home? Will I be in big trouble with mom and dad for all of this happening? Is this my fault? Is it my brother's fault?" Etc Etc Etc
 
Why are you blaming the children for this?? That is just shameful.

That's the exact same attitude that many of the commenters on social media take. As well as the attitude that AR Rep. Justin Harris and his wife have taken-- "it's the children's fault! They were possessed by demons! They have reactive attachment disorder from the abuse in their bio-parent home! We are good, God-fearing Christians and can do no wrong! We are being persecuted! Everyone is against us! We didn't do anything wrong!" And the legislator is blaming a 3 and 6 year old for his actions and his problems! Good grief! The arrogance of "we can do no wrong because we are Christians" and the attitude that they should be treated DIFFERENTLY because they are God-fearing Christians is just appalling, IMO.

Do we blame the kids of OTHER child abusers for the abuse and the circumstances of removal?? Is it the kids fault if the parents can't handle the situation as adults, and work to solve the issues? This issue of "blaming" the kids is very juvenile and adolescent. Like children squabbling over who made the mess on the floor. Everyone who thinks this is the children's fault needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror, and grow the hell up, IMO.

The entire situation, is one created by adults, and handling that belongs in the realm of adults. Quit blaming the kids!

I cannot believe ANYONE would insinuate that the kids confused and upset feelings about ending up in foster care are their own fault!! That is outrageous!

The whole situation has to be very, very confusing and upsetting for all the children, even the older ones. Imagine what is going on inside their heads. Love and abuse and religion and heaven and hell all intertwined, and the kids have to "decide" what they will tell the truth about. Their religion is a velvet prison for their emotions and thoughts, IMO. What "should" they minimize or lie about? When is a lie okay? "Do I tell the truth even if my mom and dad get into trouble? Does God want me to lie so I can go home? Do my parents want me to lie, or tell the truth? Do my brothers and sisters want me to lie or tell the truth? What am I supposed to say? Are these foster parents good and nice people, or are they evil liars keeping me from my home and my parents? Should I feel guilty if I like my new friends and school and foster parents? Am I bad if I don't like everything was going on at home? Am I going to hell if I don't like being punished? Am I bad if I like some of the new people I have met? Am I supposed to hate these new people I've met, because they're not like my family at home? Are they good or evil? What happens when I go home? Will I be in big trouble with mom and dad for all of this happening? Is this my fault? Is it my brother's fault?" Etc Etc Etc

I have never met a kid with family issues who DIDN'T think that they were at fault in some way. If I were better then Daddy wouldn't drink, or Mommy wouldn't yell. Even kids who are sexually abused carry a tremendous amount of guilt that they didn't stop it from happening. This is very useful to abusers, by the way.
 
I truly appreciate the voices for the children here. There are 7 minors here who have had very little (if any) voice in what has happened to them - either prior to or since CPS got involved.

The initial report to LEO & CPS was made by neighbors or friends (as has been reported). The allegations of abuse/neglect were determined to be founded enough to provide for initial shelter care (ie: 72 hr hold), then as further details came out in the initial investigation - the court ordered the children remain out of the home and continue to have supervised visits to allow the parents to comply with services and gather further information.

I think CPS, the court, GAL's, and all professionals involved with the family are well aware of the attention these parents have brought upon themselves. I would venture to guess that everyone involved with this case are on their toes to ensure they are doing everything by the book.

I hope the Stanley's set aside their anger and work on repairing their relationships with all of their children, in addition to their court ordered services.
 
This is a video of the family when the older ones were home. The oldest was 16. This is not a family that others have described here. These children are full of delight, able to express themselves. There is no abuse here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOA5l7A-rVs

I've seen the video and there certainly are no signs of abuse there. Seems like a happy, loving family. But surely you know that 1.4 minutes captured on camera when people know they're being filmed, out of over 2,628,000 minutes, at a time occurring over five years ago, is not evidence that no abuse or neglect has occurred or is occurring.
 
It completely disgusts me how the parents have thrown the teenage son under the bus. Even IF the teenage son was the problem - had made it all up, just wanted more freedoms than the parents allowed, was a rebellious teen (who hasn't had one of those?), ... - even IF he was, the parents are NOT helping him by blaming him! As a parent, I am definitely not perfect. I am definitely not always right. But, I do know and have learned quite a bit about psychology. Teenagers do not have to be "coddled" so to speak, but their feelings and concerns should never be dismissed so readily.
 
This young man who is so articulate and a critical thinker was raised solely in the home of these two parents. He wasn't influenced by any others. So it is a positive testimony to their parenting, imo.

I do agree and I've said so. However, it seems their lifestyle has become different over the years, based on their changing styles and certain statements. Nevertheless, you are right. Something went right in that home.
 
I do agree and I've said so. However, it seems their lifestyle has become different over the years, based on their changing styles and certain statements. Nevertheless, you are right. Something went right in that home.

Some kids are really smart and they see. Intelligence really helps
 
I also wanted to add my observation that the oldest teen boy continues to by scapegoated, with phrases such as "lies of a teenage boy in rebellion". Yesterday's comments on FB clearly single him out. I have to wonder if it will ever be in his best interest to return to that home. I can't imagine how uncomfortable it would be for him to go home to that environment in that community, with all of their neighbors and friends blaming him as the terrible person who created this whole situation. I think it's shameful that the Stanleys themselves speak about him this way, and allow their friends to speak that way on their behalf about this teen.

Maybe the teen was right, maybe he was wrong. But I really hate to see him blamed and scapegoated this way. It makes me think a lot less of all of the adults engaged in bashing him.

Dysfunctional families usually have the scapegoat child. Everything would be perfect if it wasn't for the horrible child. Very common
 
Why are you blaming the children for this?? That is just shameful.

That's the exact same attitude that many of the commenters on social media take. As well as the attitude that AR Rep. Justin Harris and his wife have taken-- "it's the children's fault! They were possessed by demons! They have reactive attachment disorder from the abuse in their bio-parent home! We are good, God-fearing Christians and can do no wrong! We are being persecuted! Everyone is against us! We didn't do anything wrong!" And the legislator is blaming a 3 and 6 year old for his actions and his problems! Good grief! The arrogance of "we can do no wrong because we are Christians" and the attitude that they should be treated DIFFERENTLY because they are God-fearing Christians is just appalling, IMO.

Do we blame the kids of OTHER child abusers for the abuse and the circumstances of removal?? Is it the kids fault if the parents can't handle the situation as adults, and work to solve the issues? This issue of "blaming" the kids is very juvenile and adolescent. Like children squabbling over who made the mess on the floor. Everyone who thinks this is the children's fault needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror, and grow the hell up, IMO.

The entire situation, is one created by adults, and handling that belongs in the realm of adults. Quit blaming the kids!

I cannot believe ANYONE would insinuate that the kids confused and upset feelings about ending up in foster care are their own fault!! That is outrageous!

The whole situation has to be very, very confusing and upsetting for all the children, even the older ones. Imagine what is going on inside their heads. Love and abuse and religion and heaven and hell all intertwined, and the kids have to "decide" what they will tell the truth about. Their religion is a velvet prison for their emotions and thoughts, IMO. What "should" they minimize or lie about? When is a lie okay? "Do I tell the truth even if my mom and dad get into trouble? Does God want me to lie so I can go home? Do my parents want me to lie, or tell the truth? Do my brothers and sisters want me to lie or tell the truth? What am I supposed to say? Are these foster parents good and nice people, or are they evil liars keeping me from my home and my parents? Should I feel guilty if I like my new friends and school and foster parents? Am I bad if I don't like everything was going on at home? Am I going to hell if I don't like being punished? Am I bad if I like some of the new people I have met? Am I supposed to hate these new people I've met, because they're not like my family at home? Are they good or evil? What happens when I go home? Will I be in big trouble with mom and dad for all of this happening? Is this my fault? Is it my brother's fault?" Etc Etc Etc

:yeahthat:


:goodpost:
 
Some kids are really smart and they see. Intelligence really helps

Yeah but I don't look at much as black and white anymore. I used to when I was younger but I think I've learned. Their son was honest and supported DHS but he also supported his parents. He saw both sides of he coin and saw merit to both positions, not just one.

I think ink it is disingenuous to suggest that these are brainwashing, autocratic and abusive parents who failed to allow opinions other than their own nor fostered critical thinking skills yet ended up with a son like that. And he's not one of the five kids of Hal Stanley. Michele Stanley stated he is hers and he looks just like the rest of them.

It is is possible that these are people who lost their way along the way and became abusive but have done a great job for the most part. I truly don't think intelligence alone is enough to allow for such independent thought in a young person who has been raised by autocratic, brainwashing parents who limit outside influences.
 
What is really getting old is the insistence a single slap rises to the level of an abusive beating.

JMO

Actually, nobody is saying that. However, a report of a slap, coupled with the barefoot in the snow issue was sufficient to warrant an initial visit.

Clearly there was another report, or some other indication that provided a reasonable suspicion of the presence (and use or exposure) of the MMS (and whatever else may have been contained in the search warrant--unsecured firearms, perhaps? some implement used in paddling?). And then we know that the children were interviewed and examined.

If all that there was was a report of a slap, and the first follow-up visit did not reveal a kid with visible facial damage, it is likely that there never would have been an issue.

But clearly there was more. Enough to convince a judge that a preponderance of evidence indicated that it was more likely than not that the children had been abused/neglected and would face imminent danger of its continuation should they be returned. Further, the parents have been provided a summary of the evidence and were in court when it was presented before the judge. So, all of their public posturing about it being all about the MMS, or barefoot in the snow, or lies that the kids told, well, that just gets pretty difficult to believe. Also difficult to believe is that no one is telling them anything. They can put all that out in public, but in the courtroom it's a different story. I am quite certain they have signed receipts for documents, their attorney has gone over things with them. When asked, they will have to say that they understood the allegations, as well as the plan to which they have agreed. And they will be asked if they were coerced into any agreements.

So, I would just take their public pronouncements with a grain of salt.
 
"Hitting" implies multiple strikes. You are blowing a single slap out of proportion. I don't believe this case involves multiple slaps or hits of any of the children. The oldest Stanley son certainly doesn't seem to be short of wonderful himself.

JMO

Soooo--you think Hal was making stuff up in those sermons?
 
Actually, nobody is saying that. However, a report of a slap, coupled with the barefoot in the snow issue was sufficient to warrant an initial visit.

Clearly there was another report, or some other indication that provided a reasonable suspicion of the presence (and use or exposure) of the MMS (and whatever else may have been contained in the search warrant--unsecured firearms, perhaps? some implement used in paddling?). And then we know that the children were interviewed and examined.

If all that there was was a report of a slap, and the first follow-up visit did not reveal a kid with visible facial damage, it is likely that there never would have been an issue.

But clearly there was more. Enough to convince a judge that a preponderance of evidence indicated that it was more likely than not that the children had been abused/neglected and would face imminent danger of its continuation should they be returned. Further, the parents have been provided a summary of the evidence and were in court when it was presented before the judge. So, all of their public posturing about it being all about the MMS, or barefoot in the snow, or lies that the kids told, well, that just gets pretty difficult to believe. Also difficult to believe is that no one is telling them anything. They can put all that out in public, but in the courtroom it's a different story. I am quite certain they have signed receipts for documents, their attorney has gone over things with them. When asked, they will have to say that they understood the allegations, as well as the plan to which they have agreed. And they will be asked if they were coerced into any agreements.

So, I would just take their public pronouncements with a grain of salt.

That would be the day that CPS comes out for a slap. Never.

They are underfunded everywhere and they have guidelines to follow for reports.

A slap would never quailfy for a visit.
 
Yeah but I don't look at much as black and white anymore. I used to when I was younger but I think I've learned. Their son was honest and supported DHS but he also supported his parents. He saw both sides of he coin and saw merit to both positions, not just one.

I think ink it is disingenuous to suggest that these are brainwashing, autocratic and abusive parents who failed to allow opinions other than their own nor fostered critical thinking skills yet ended up with a son like that. And he's not one of the five kids of Hal Stanley. Michele Stanley stated he is hers and he looks just like the rest of them.

It is is possible that these are people who lost their way along the way and became abusive but have done a great job for the most part. I truly don't think intelligence alone is enough to allow for such independent thought in a young person who has been raised by autocratic, brainwashing parents who limit outside influences.

Who knows.

But intelligence sure is a big deal. An intelligent child can see when things are not OK.

They have reasoning abilites.

And intelligence for the male comes through the mother, so maybe the mother was just beaten down over time.
 
Actually, nobody is saying that. However, a report of a slap, coupled with the barefoot in the snow issue was sufficient to warrant an initial visit.

Clearly there was another report, or some other indication that provided a reasonable suspicion of the presence (and use or exposure) of the MMS (and whatever else may have been contained in the search warrant--unsecured firearms, perhaps? some implement used in paddling?). And then we know that the children were interviewed and examined.

If all that there was was a report of a slap, and the first follow-up visit did not reveal a kid with visible facial damage, it is likely that there never would have been an issue.

But clearly there was more. Enough to convince a judge that a preponderance of evidence indicated that it was more likely than not that the children had been abused/neglected and would face imminent danger of its continuation should they be returned. Further, the parents have been provided a summary of the evidence and were in court when it was presented before the judge. So, all of their public posturing about it being all about the MMS, or barefoot in the snow, or lies that the kids told, well, that just gets pretty difficult to believe. Also difficult to believe is that no one is telling them anything. They can put all that out in public, but in the courtroom it's a different story. I am quite certain they have signed receipts for documents, their attorney has gone over things with them. When asked, they will have to say that they understood the allegations, as well as the plan to which they have agreed. And they will be asked if they were coerced into any agreements.

So, I would just take their public pronouncements with a grain of salt.

Excellent post. I agree that the parents were most certainly provided with court documents outlining the reasons the children were removed. I work with a family right now whose son was removed. At the first court hearing, the parents were provided with a copy of documents that outlined exactly the reasons the child was removed. It was abundantly clear, even for the mother in that case who has cognition issues. I don't believe FOR A SECOND that this family wasn't provided with those documents. I'm continuously disgusted at their supporter's claims that the children were removed for "no just reason," and that the parents are "in the dark," etc. That with all the child-blaming is what I personally find to be most tiresome.

Like someone mentioned earlier, no parent who receives a visit from child protection workers is gleeful to have them at their door, and it's the rule rather than the exception that the parents deny and/or minimize the allegations against them. Clearly these parents feel oppositional towards the government ALREADY, so I can't imagine they would somehow be able to be objective and understanding of the CPS intervention in their lives. To me that says they absolutely are the LAST people from whom credible information would be presented.
 
I truly wish that these parents would spend their energy on working toward eliminating the issues that placed their children at risk of harm. To blame their children for lying suggests that there will be consequences once the parents have power and control over those they deem spoke against them. I bet the 2 older teens are even more fearful of their parents given the statements the parents have made.

THIS. Even IF the reports were unsubstantiated, all the blaming of the children really comes across as a thinly veiled threat and/or berating, IMO.
 
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