AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

[CathyinTexas]

And I am sure that many of their supporters live a similar lifestyle in Arkansas.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Exactly, it is a process that the state will stick to. Once children are in custody there are very few who are returned immediately. If they are returned it would be in the 72 hour time frame. The process is so many hearings over a period of a year to 18 months. At the end of that time the parents rights have to be severed and the children put up for adoption or the children returned to the parents. It is a time frame tied to the federal mandates regarding the funding. I am concerned for the children to be in foster care for that length of time and hope that the court will decide on kinship care, so at least they can be with family who loves them.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't think a random five years old clip showing a minute and a half of no abuse happening proves anything really. Even abused kids could be happy when they get Christmas presents, and a lot of things could also change in five years. Say, little kids who think mom and dad are the best thing since sliced bread might not get abused but they could grow up to become teenagers who have independent thoughts and then if mom and dad think they need to beat the devil out of them...

JMO I think that the teenager blaming is a warning sign that I wouldn't discount too easily. If the family is saying that the teenagers are lying it sounds like the teenagers said something they don't like to hear and if the teenagers said something to get out of there it is very likely it is not a happy home. Foster care is usually not such a joyride that teenagers frequently prefer it if they could also choose to continue living in their own loving and happy family with no abuse.

 

[flourish]

This is a video of the family when the older ones were home. The oldest was 16. This is not a family that others have described here. These children are full of delight, able to express themselves. There is no abuse here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOA5l7A-rVs

Um, that's a video, not the entire big picture of this family's life. You can't seriously look at a video that was posted for the world to see and determine that represents an accurate depiction of the family's every day life. Abuse is rarely videotaped and shared to the world. What a naive outlook.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Thank you for this post! I went searching and found it - I have not seen this previously. All I can say is thank goodness he has a level head! I am so impressed with this man and I applaud his courage and honesty! (the video takes quite awhile to load - at least it did for me).

http://www.arkansasmatters.com/stor...e-son-of-stanley/21953/Bx31OC_C3kSuX3jK2uw4wA

This was recorded a day or so after the children were removed. I saw a picture of him with the family at one of the visits shortly after this started. Of all the faces, his seemed to be the most solemn and distressed. I suspect he had no idea what would really happen. He probably didn't know his siblings would be in foster care for over a year. I suspect he is disillusioned with all of this. Time will tell.

 

[flourish]

As for the process, the authorities are following the same protocols for this case as any other. It is absurd to insinuate this family should go through a different process than other families. And I agree the blaming of the children is abhorrent and incredibly disturbing and very indicative of abusive attitudes.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Purely from the son's statements, HS sermon re: loving rod of guidance/beat or hell, and the videotapes of the parents - I can only imagine what it might be like to be a child growing up in this household.

What happens if a child has a bad day? What happens if you are crabby, or not feeling well, or wanting to play outside when you can't, or daydreaming? What happens if you cry or are hurt? What happens if you get in trouble or have a fight with your sibling? Who do you talk to when your heart is heavy or you are fearful?

Do you get comfort (or sermons) from your parents? Do you speak up for yourself? Do you dare? Can you write down something you are thinking about and not be challenged/in trouble for thinking outside of the box?

Are you happy? What would make you more happy? What do you like best about your life? What do you not like so much? What would be great if it could change? What should stay the same?

I think the older son who spoke out would have much to say that would be so enlightening for the parents to hear - if he could be recorded and the parents watched the playback so he could freely speak. I believe him when he said it was better to remove the children until the case is fully investigated. He did not minimize the children's experience in any way (which these parents have continually done IMO).

This young man who is so articulate and a critical thinker was raised solely in the home of these two parents. He wasn't influenced by any others. So it is a positive testimony to their parenting, imo.

 

[Margo/Mom]

This is a video of the family when the older ones were home. The oldest was 16. This is not a family that others have described here. These children are full of delight, able to express themselves. There is no abuse here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOA5l7A-rVs

And what do you think a family with abuse looks like?

 

[CathyinTexas]

I don't think a random five years old clip showing a minute and a half of no abuse happening proves anything really. Even abused kids could be happy when they get Christmas presents, and a lot of things could also change in five years. Say, little kids who think mom and dad are the best thing since sliced bread might not get abused but they could grow up to become teenagers who have independent thoughts and then if mom and dad think they need to beat the devil out of them...

JMO I think that the teenager blaming is a warning sign that I wouldn't discount too easily. If the family is saying that the teenagers are lying it sounds like the teenagers said something they don't like to hear and if the teenagers said something to get out of there it is very likely it is not a happy home. Foster care is usually not such a joyride that teenagers frequently prefer it if they could also choose to continue living in their own loving and happy family with no abuse.

I doubt these kids had any idea what they would be getting into as far as foster care.

 

[daisytrail]

And what do you think a family with abuse looks like?

Good question. Many of my family's old reel tape home movies were transferred to VHS. I have watched them several times and we mostly look happy. No one in a family is likely to turn a camera on fury and tears. I look at those old movies with wonder. Nothing of the extreme volatility in my family environment shows.

 

[wenwe4]

Exactly, it is a process that the state will stick to. Once children are in custody there are very few who are returned immediately. If they are returned it would be in the 72 hour time frame. The process is so many hearings over a period of a year to 18 months. At the end of that time the parents rights have to be severed and the children put up for adoption or the children returned to the parents. It is a time frame tied to the federal mandates regarding the funding. I am concerned for the children to be in foster care for that length of time and hope that the court will decide on kinship care, so at least they can be with family who loves them.

The state has to stick to the process - it is a legal process put in place to ensure child safety while allowing time and opportunity for the parents to work towards reunification. This is a time limit that all of the States (hence Federal) must adhere to placing restrictions of 12 months (to 18 months in some circumstances) because children can't wait forever for their parents to get their act(s) together. The time clock is in place because children age, grow up, and become adults while they are waiting. The children have a right to a forever home, with parents (natural or adopted) who can provide appropriate care to ensure the children's health, welfare, and safety. The States can seek termination of parental rights when the kids have been in care for a year in an effort to allow the children to be free to be adopted.

Conversely, I have seen parents who choose their own lifestyle over their children (ie: drugs/etoH, homelessness, violence, untreated serious mental illness, sexual deviance, etc) and never make efforts (or enough efforts) toward ensuring their children will be safe in their care. Their children always longed to go home and be with their parent(s) but it was clear the parents were not ready, able, and willing anytime in the near future. These kids deserve to be adopted by a loving family who would be able to provide those things - in a timely fashion before it's too late.

 

[Margo/Mom]

This young man who is so articulate and a critical thinker was raised solely in the home of these two parents. He wasn't influenced by any others. So it is a positive testimony to their parenting, imo.

This young man is trying to tell the world NOT to jump on a bandwagon in support of his parents, but rather to listen to what the children have to say.

Abuse is complicated. Children who are abused frequently love their parents. And they don't want to lose their families--even when abuse/neglect is severe. What they WANT is for the abuse to stop, for their families to get better.

 

[wenwe4]

I doubt these kids had any idea what they would be getting into as far as foster care.

I'm confused. What were the kids "getting into"?

Are you saying the children are the ones that initiated the police response and CPS placing them into foster care?

 

[Margo/Mom]

I doubt these kids had any idea what they would be getting into as far as foster care.

And maybe it was someone else who actually dropped the dime on the family. Someone with knowledge of the family (as has been reported). And the role of the teens was simply to confirm information. Maybe they simply chose NOT to lie. Maybe after the first visit from authorities the Stanleys schooled the kids in what NOT to say to outsiders who ask questions--they would certainly not be the first. And they would clearly have felt justified that their actions were protecting the family. Maybe that's when the trailer was packed up ready to go.

 

[wenwe4]

This young man who is so articulate and a critical thinker was raised solely in the home of these two parents. He wasn't influenced by any others. So it is a positive testimony to their parenting, imo.

I'm not sure if this man was raised by these two parents. He might be one of the 5 other children that Hal had with a previous wife. He may very well have been influenced by others.

To be fair, his own statements (testimony) about Michelle and Hal's parenting techiniques are pretty clear - he feels they could use parenting education and knows there are better ways to parent and making a child appear to be "ideal" on the outside isn't necessarily in the best interest of the children.

He begs those who are supporting Hal and Michelle to stop blaming everyone, let the facts come out, and let the judicial process run its course. I agree he is articulate and appears to be a critical thinker and I believe his words - he appears to have chosen them carefully. He didn't preach a sermon, he spoke from the heart. (IMO)

 

[Margo/Mom]

CathyinTexas offers us a video of the Stanley family from several years ago, in which we see what a happy and loving family they were/are. Actually I had seen it before, and do not doubt that it shows a family in which all members love one another. And if love were all it took to raise children, well, the world would certainly be far better off.

This story has moved me to delve more deeply into some topics in which I already had an interest. And in some of my reading yesterday--actually reading some specifics regarding Christian theology in support of child discipline that does not rely on a literal application of a rod--I came across this particularly sad story. It's about another family and a boy who died. He was beaten to death by a step-dad who seems to cling still to the belief that he was acting as a good, and godly parent:

“You used your faith as a basis to justify that,” District Judge David Barker said at Palmer’s sentencing hearing. “It sounds to me like you were trying to break him, this little boy, to break his spirit, to break his will.”

In November, a jury convicted Palmer of first-degree murder and two counts of child abuse in connection with the November 2012 death of his wife’s son.

“When RJ was under my care, I was raising him with the best understanding that I had in regards to the word of God,” Palmer told the judge. “It wasn’t when I disciplined RJ that it was premeditated malice in my heart that I desired to destroy him. It was none of that, though at times, my actions probably was overboard.”
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/man-gets-life-without-parole-beating-death-7-year-old-rj

But, I urge anyone with an interest to click on the link, and scroll down to page for this little boy's picture. Look into the shining eyes of that smiling, happy boy, and then tell me, what does an abused child look like?

 

[MyBelle]

I doubt these kids had any idea what they would be getting into as far as foster care.

That is an understatement. The overreach and abuse of authority are appalling to those of us who do not blindly believe that CPS always gets it right. This is just as ridiculous as the head of DFS failing to intervene in the re-homing of an adoptive child with a pedophile.

 

[tlcya]

Those of us who do not blindly believe abuse allegations against the Stanley's are persecution and overreach are well aware that CPS does not get it right all the time. We also know full well that they indeed DO get it right some of the time.

 

[lib's mom]

This was recorded a day or so after the children were removed. I saw a picture of him with the family at one of the visits shortly after this started. Of all the faces, his seemed to be the most solemn and distressed. I suspect he had no idea what would really happen. He probably didn't know his siblings would be in foster care for over a year. I suspect he is disillusioned with all of this. Time will tell.

Just jumping off your post...I've been following this case closely. I was unaware that the decision had been made that foster care would last for a year. Could someone fill me in please? When was this decision made? TIA

 

[wenwe4]

Just jumping off your post...I've been following this case closely. I was unaware that the decision had been made that foster care would last for a year. Could someone fill me in please? When was this decision made? TIA

It hasn't and never would as the courts cannot predict the how quickly the parents complete court ordered services, etc. That is why courts continually have status hearings in addition to the other hearings required in all cps cases. How long the children remain in foster care is dependent upon the parental progress toward identified goals. (which these parents already know - although there may be more added at the next hearing)

ETA: The courts do put a maximum time limit of 12 months to 18 months for children to not have to languish in foster care without a permanent plan.