Identified! AR - Hamburg, WhtMale UP2935, 20-40, red beard, hit by semi, May'89 - Charles Cornell

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Carl, any chance Chris has post mortem photos of the whole UID? John had skin discolorations, and I am wondering if the discolorations might have been better documented in other photos of John...they might be able to use those for comparison as well...just a thought.
 
Schizophrenia can hit like that. Just out of the blue. Especially in young people; I've read that the 20's are the prime age for that happening. That sounds like what happened to Paulette Jaster, as well.

You know when you can catch it? (JMO) Other than the obvious behavioral signs of course....in photographs. You can see an engaged live person...and in another photo, the eyes are dead. It is weird, but try it some time...
 
Carl, any chance Chris has post mortem photos of the whole UID? John had skin discolorations, and I am wondering if the discolorations might have been better documented in other photos of John...they might be able to use those for comparison as well...just a thought.

I will keep that in mind for next time I hear from him. I don't think I want to take up his time up with just that one question.
 
Dunno if this is useful to you guys or not... but I work right next door (LITERALLY) to the AR State Crime Lab (I'm at the State Plant Board)... so if dropping off/picking up info for you guys would help, I'd be happy to drop in on one of my breaks.
BTW... the people there are VERY nice... I was asked to interview for two positions with them (Toxicology and a Forensic Scientist) but accepted the job here instead...
 
I will keep that in mind for next time I hear from him. I don't think I want to take up his time up with just that one question.

I am trying to come up with alternatives to a long dna comparison wait....it's not common but I have seen legal ID made from freckles and a layover of the skull....
 
While Carl is waiting for word, I wonder if any of you have looked at the Laundry Ladythread? Rosie Baker was submitted to Chris as a possible match for her. The challenge has been finding some kind of corresponding evidence in both cases for comparison...Rosie has MtDNA on file, Jane Doe has Dentals and Fingerprints....Chris is having a hard time locating where LL was buried so there is no means to obtain DNA from her....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78755&page=18
 
You know when you can catch it? (JMO) Other than the obvious behavioral signs of course....in photographs. You can see an engaged live person...and in another photo, the eyes are dead. It is weird, but try it some time...

Hm, I'll have to keep that in mind. It's certainly true in at least one case I know of.

Hmmmmmmmm........
 
I called Chris Edwards of the Arkansas Crime Lab to see if there have been any recent developments in this case with regard to the J.S. Campbell submission.
2089186530045078242S200x200Q85.jpg
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https://identifyus.org/cases/2935
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/campbell_john.html

He says that they have submitted a nucDNA sample on the UID to the Univ. of North Texas, and that he believes that Humboldt County authorities have been in contact with the family of J.S. Campbell, but as far as he knows, they have not yet received anything back from them.

He said that he would have to check the case file to be sure, but he seemed to be busy (he was talking a bit fast). I did not press him for info.

The fact that he is sending it to Univ of North Texas means that it will probably be a long wait before we get an answer on this one.
 
I made another call to Chris Edwards for an update. He says that the nucDNA sample is already done, and they only need the Univ of North Texas to construct a mtDNA profile. At that point, it will all be entered in CODIS.

I asked him if there was going to be a long backlog, considering UNT's reputation. He said that since they already have done nucDNA, the backlog should not be more than a couple of months.

He does not know whether or not John S Campbell's family has been contacted yet, but once the CODIS process is complete, he will then check with the local LE agencies for all plausible possibles to make sure that they have the samples on their end.
 
Helene from DoeNet has been giving me Arkansas cases to do reconstructions on, and I just realized that they didn't have a reconstruction for the Red Beard Guy. They still have his case as a Hot Case without an image.

So here he is (with the Petit Jean State Park overlook in the background). It didn't take a lot of work to make him presentable. I smoothed out his skin, lowered his eyebrows, straightened up his hair, turned his eyes toward the camera, and gave him a slight smile.

He was actually a pretty respectable looking guy.

7bb844a1-cbbe-4e96-b935-1d921bf4e129.jpg
 
Carl,

What program do you use to do your reconstructions?
 
The artwork is great Carl. I am not critizing in any way, but I would like to know the criteria for an "acceptable" public photo for Doe Network?
Do they really want all the blemishes smoothed out? How do we know that some of these are not from before death? The lips - the whole mouth area is different and hiding a couple of teeth that were visable in the morgue photo. the most minute smoothing stroke can change the appearance of a person and his face was certainly not offensive as almost ALL on the Doe site. Do you know their reason? People who do not use Doe (myself) and can access other data bases are now seeing these recons turning up as old filed are being updated and the 'new and improved' are loosing any likeness. Help! There was already a big problem with reconstructions in in drawings as the artist has a particular style and some of the UID's look like brother and sister because of the style verses attention to exact detail. I am just trying to understand their reasoning because I do have a couple of researchers working for me and they sometimes have to use Doe and that may stop completely.
 
The artwork is great Carl. I am not critizing in any way, but I would like to know the criteria for an "acceptable" public photo for Doe Network?
Do they really want all the blemishes smoothed out? How do we know that some of these are not from before death? The lips - the whole mouth area is different and hiding a couple of teeth that were visable in the morgue photo. the most minute smoothing stroke can change the appearance of a person and his face was certainly not offensive as almost ALL on the Doe site. Do you know their reason? People who do not use Doe (myself) and can access other data bases are now seeing these recons turning up as old filed are being updated and the 'new and improved' are loosing any likeness. Help! There was already a big problem with reconstructions in in drawings as the artist has a particular style and some of the UID's look like brother and sister because of the style verses attention to exact detail. I am just trying to understand their reasoning because I do have a couple of researchers working for me and they sometimes have to use Doe and that may stop completely.

DoeNet refuses to use postmortems on their UID pages, so it is preferable to use a reconstruction than to have no image at all. Even here, they are trending toward using only images that are suitable for viewing by the more squeamish among us. Yes, this one is less offensive than most, but I have shown it to some people and seen them recoil at his facial expression.

I knew that when I smoothed out the marks on his face, I would hear from you. The marks that I smoothed out appear to me to be abrasions that resulted from his having been hit by a truck. Maybe they were permanent skin anomalies, but I made a judgment call. There is a line that I need to straddle between something that is inoffensive and something that is accurate.

I realize that your predominant focus is on blemishes and facial marks, but you are much more focused on minute detail than most people are. You still have postmortem photos at your disposal on NamUs for that purpose.

For the vast majority of people who are looking for a loved one, they want to be able browse through images for people whose overall resemblance and facial shape and features are roughly similar without being further traumatized than they already are. After they have narrowed down their search they can then go to the postmortems (if they are available) to compare the finer details.

Most of us here are not bothered by postmortem photos. But many people are. The objective is to come up with something that the most people possible are willing to look at. It is preferable to accommodate their squeamishness than to have them not look at all.

BTW, my pet peeve is age progressions. I think that more often than not, they are not even close. They often try to morph the MP's photo with a photo of a close relative, and it just ends up looking like a poor depiction of the relative.
 
DoeNet refuses to use postmortems on their UID pages, so it is preferable to use a reconstruction than to have no image at all. Even here, they are trending toward using only images that are suitable for viewing by the more squeamish among us. Yes, this one is less offensive than most, but I have shown it to some people and seen them recoil at his facial expression.

I knew that when I smoothed out the marks on his face, I would hear from you. The marks that I smoothed out appear to me to be abrasions that resulted from his having been hit by a truck. Maybe they were permanent skin anomalies, but I made a judgment call. There is a line that I need to straddle between something that is inoffensive and something that is accurate.

I realize that your predominant focus is on blemishes and facial marks, but you are much more focused on minute detail than most people are. You still have postmortem photos at your disposal on NamUs for that purpose.

For the vast majority of people who are looking for a loved one, they want to be able browse through images for people whose overall resemblance and facial shape and features are roughly similar without being further traumatized than they already are. After they have narrowed down their search they can then go to the postmortems (if they are available) to compare at the finer details.

Most of us here are not bothered by postmortem photos. But many people are. The objective is to come up with something that the most people possible are willing to look at. It is preferable to accommodate their squeamishness than to have them not look at all.

Hi Carl,
I fully understand the problem with post-mortem photos and WS or any site has the right to decide what is shown. I do not want to get off topic with that. Again, I am not criticizing your artwork. It is very good!

I am referring to this particular UID. It isn't just the blemishes which could or could not be a part of his skin before death, I am referring to his mouth and areas which I did not see any contusions, blood or other disturbing detail. There also seems to be touch up of the eyes. Does Doe have these stringent requirements? This is what I am asking.

I guess my question is does Doe want perfect skin even if it changes the lips and/or hides the teeth (in this case seem perfect)? These issues are very difficult even for a forensic artist and just as difficult to fine tune. What exactly was/is objectionable about this UID's photo? And what if someone does look and see nothing recognizable? What was the point of looking or having a photo? Does this make sense?

Just wondering as if this is the case, Doe is defeating their own purpose. BTW, they do have post mortem photos on their site, cleaned up and bearing little of any resemblance to the UID.

But again, I am concerned with this man, who has a 'clean' facial appearance published. How many times have we seen where the reporting agency does not list moles, small scars, blemishes and other identifiers. (Yellow teeth is a very good also)

ETA....
Sorry if I gave the impression that my focus was on the skin portion of the individual. Before looking at any photo, I get the logistics, the circumstances and as much background as I can on the missing. This allows me to make a judgment call or prediction of behavior before looking for a UID to make a match. I cannot look at a photo and try to find another that looks like the missing. Conversely, I cannot try to match a UID with a person I know to be missing. There are just too many people who look like someone else.
Once I am at the photo stage, be they morgue or cleaned up photos, I go for the structure. This can be done even with remains, as forensic groups who do the complete reconstruction from skeleton only can get the general bone structure correct. With face intact, it is important to understand how death, aging, and other factors affect the skin and facial muscles. The skin then becomes my focus. Considering how much is left off reports, even by distraught family members, this one area could mean the success of identification baring DNA or dental.
 
I am referring to this particular UID. It isn't just the blemishes which could or could not be a part of his skin before death, I am referring to his mouth and areas which I did not see any contusions, blood or other disturbing detail. There also seems to be touch up of the eyes. Does Doe have these stringent requirements? This is what I am asking. ...

... What exactly was/is objectionable about this UID's photo?


My first version of this, I showed him with a closed mouth, and decided that it was preferable to show his teeth. Although there are no contusions or blood on his mouth, the flatness of his lower lip and the sagging corners of his mouth are the result of his death, and I am certain that they didn't sag like that when he was alive.

I could have made his smile look more natural, but that would have required that I re-do his cheeks.

The only thing that I did to his eyes was turn his irises toward the camera so that he didn't appear to be staring off into space. That resulted in the need to fill in the void at the top of the irises and trim off the bottoms at his lower eyelid.

To the people to whom I am referring who were "grossed out" at the photo, it was his far-off gaze and the dead looking mouth that they recoiled at.

And what if someone does look and see nothing recognizable? What was the point of looking or having a photo? Does this make sense?

It appears to me that for you, "recognizable" means fine details. For me, and I hope most others, "recognizable" means accurate structural features, as well as freckles, moles, and blemishes. Sometimes I fail at both, but I think that to someone who knew this man, they would recognize him even if I inadvertently obliterated a few freckles.
 
My first version of this, I showed him with a closed mouth, and decided that it was preferable to show his teeth. Although there are no contusions or blood on his mouth, the flatness of his lower lip and the sagging corners of his mouth are the result of his death, and I am certain that they didn't sag like that when he was alive.

I could have made his smile look more natural, but that would have required that I re-do his cheeks.

The only thing that I did to his eyes was turn his Irises toward the camera so that he didn't appear to be staring off into space. That resulted in the need to fill in the void at the top of the irises and trim off the bottoms at his lower eyelid.

To the people to whom I am referring who were "grossed out" at the photo, it was his far-off gaze and the dead looking mouth that they recoiled at.



It appears to me that for you, "recognizable" means fine details. For me, and I hope most others, "recognizable" means accurate structural features, as well as freckles, moles, and blemishes. Sometimes I fail at both, but I think that to someone who knew this man, they would recognize him even if I inadvertently obliterated a few freckles.

Again, I apologize if you think my issue is with you.:waitasec: It is not. Nor is it about "freckles".
I edited my post to add my priority on identification and it is structure first. Each time a smoothing streak is made on the photo or a shadow removed, it changes the bone structure.
Good work!
Thanks
 
I was looking into a missing guy by the name of Lowell Daughenbaugh, thinking he looked a lot like a UID I has seen here, so I hunted up this thread (without much more than the vague recollection of this UID's face in mind), only to find no tattoos recorded and a respectable submission already in progress. Oh well, back to the drawing board...

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/daughenbaugh_lowell.html
 
I was looking into a missing guy by the name of Lowell Daughenbaugh, thinking he looked a lot like a UID I has seen here, so I hunted up this thread (without much more than the vague recollection of this UID's face in mind), only to find no tattoos recorded and a respectable submission already in progress. Oh well, back to the drawing board...

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/daughenbaugh_lowell.html

I think the man listed above has been declared deceased although I haven't found it listed in any missing persons sites, I did however find his fathers obit in which it says he was preceded in death by his wife and two sons.

http://www.genealogybuff.com/nc/alleghany/webbbs_config.pl/read/46
 
I made a follow-up call to Chris Edwards of the AR State Crime Lab. He says that he just got word from Univ of North Texas that this case is ready to be uploaded to CODIS pending final confirmation of testing. He says that once it is put into CODIS, all he has to do is wait for any hits to come in via e-mail.

I asked him if he could verify if John Campbell is in CODIS, and he said that he would look into it.
 

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