AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #2

[human]

It is all the disgusting things they say about people who are gay or transgender. Like people that are gay or transgender are molesters. Grrrrr!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It is all the disgusting things they say about people who are gay or transgender. Like people that are gay or transgender are molesters. Grrrrr!

I think that is a totally different issue. I think that is why most people are so upset. But I think there are a few different issues here and I just feel like the truth is not all out yet.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The victims forgave him how could they really forgive him being children themselves... Adults can say that all day long but imo a child does not understand forgiveness for something so vile. Jmo.

ciao

They would have had to have forgiven him in the present to have him be part of their lives. I don't think anyone else can say who should get or give forgiveness. None of us were hurt so that is up to those injured but it seems to me the forgiveness is current. People do horrible awful things and still are forgiven. Forgiveness is powerful for those who believe in it. I will never forget over the years pictures of families of murdered loved ones showing forgiveness for the person who killed their child or for the families of that murderer.

 

[LaneGirl]

I can only go by the fact the parents waited until the statute of limitations was over to report, in the report the mother acknowledged it wasn't really a counseling camp, but they could have taken them later for additional counseling later. Add that together and a little research on the teachings of ATI or whatever Gothard teachings are out there on the internet and see that I'm not hopeful. One of the little kids (male) called the vagina a "pee pee holder" that to me is concerning after seeing how women are treated in this type of belief system. All the kids were sheltered and I'm sure have a skewed view of a lot of things.

As a side point Gothard the founding father if you will of the teachings this family practices (and was friends with) was accused of molesting 32 girls. Another friend of this family Phillips was recently excommunicated for molesting his nanny. Makes one wonder if the strict teachings of at least this family belief system could be a contributing factor?

Regardless I do find it ironic that this family's very public judgement of others finds themselves in this situation.

SS - I'm sure you are correct and some pieces of the puzzle are missing and I'm glad you are open to that you seem like a compassionate person.

What I read in the report is enough for me so say again, I hope he has changed, he has a daughter and one on the way and I hope his victims are in a good place.

If one is religious I can see that God probably has forgiven men/women/children for a lot of horrid things but most of them at least face the consequences of their actions when caught and not allowed to repeat many more times.

 

[song22]

I think for me, what I look for in people who take responsibility and really own up to their behavior is the appropriate language for one thing. I wish JD and MD and JBD would have said, "12 years ago when JD was 14 and then into the age of 15, he sexually abused four of his sisters and a family friend. One of the children was five years old." When you use the actual language for the behavior, you can see how far their apology and explanations fall short of taking responsibility.

I do believe that a 14-15 year old can get treatment and go on to lead healthy lives. I also believe that victims and perpetrators can be reconciled. But NOT if the behavior is minimized. You can't really know repentance if you aren't being honest about what you did.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Nah; not buying all of that and I'm a conservative republican. It's not a political issue and it's not about their stand on other issues.

IMO it seems like there was a coverup here and I want to find out more because it could very well be that someone will owe society a debt that needs to be paid.

It's about justice honestly

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I can only go by the fact the parents waited until the statute of limitations was over to report, in the report the mother acknowledged it wasn't really a counseling camp, but they could have taken them later for additional counseling later. Add that together and a little research on the teachings of ATI or whatever Gothard teachings are out there on the internet and see that I'm not hopeful. One of the little kids (male) called the vagina a "pee pee holder" that to me is concerning after seeing how women are treated in this type of belief system. All the kids were sheltered and I'm sure have a skewed view of a lot of things.

As a side point Gothard the founding father if you will of the teachings this family practices (and was friends with) was accused of molesting 32 girls. Another friend of this family Phillips was recently excommunicated for molesting his nanny. Makes one wonder if the strict teachings of at least this family belief system could be a contributing factor?

Regardless I do find it ironic that this family's very public judgement of others finds themselves in this situation.

SS - I'm sure you are correct and some pieces of the puzzle are missing and I'm glad you are open to that you seem like a compassionate person.

What I read in the report is enough for me so say again, I hope he has changed, he has a daughter and one on the way and I hope his victims are in a good place.

If one is religious I can see that God probably has forgiven men/women/children for a lot of horrid things but most of them at least face the consequences of their actions when caught and not allowed to repeat many more times.

Thank you.. I am and I like to weigh all sides and have all the info before I come to a conclusion.

I have read up on that crazy gothard thing.. but I don't know how far it was taken by anyone. I wonder if I can explain it this way.. I have friends who are catholic. Some are very catholic and follow everything to the letter of the law and some call themselves catholic but pick and choose what they decide to subject themselves to and what parts they want to follow. Then some who call themselves catholic and show up Easter and Christmas.

So just because someone may follow something does not mean they are in hook line and sinker.

I think that some of this can only be known by being there and hearing the teachings themselves.

I have to think of Josh the 14 yr old in this and not Josh the man. I know that is hard for people but I have to go back to when it was committed. It is hard, but I have to keep my head there to figure this out.

 

[Hiandmighty]

The catholic example is not a valid comparison with Gothard and the fundamental movement.

 

[SCHMAE]

IMO Josh should have been removed from the home and never to return. No matter who handled it. LE or the Parents. Terrible message for the Victims.

Right. The message to the victims is " you get over it '' and we will protect your abuser. Poor things.

ETA I'd like to add one of my very favorite lines in cases like this ........ JESUS WEPT !

 

[LaneGirl]

SS - I feel for you and hope your optimism pans out.

I on the other hand can't get past the reports and the coverup.

 

[EllieBee]

Guess what? The modest swimwear company is going out of business. So get your suits, ladies, while supplies last!

Do they come in the "nipple cut-out style"? That's kinda my thing.

Totally kidding. Nobody wants to see that.

 

[kimi_SFC]

@MarkEiglarsh: Should police chief who released Josh Duggar's police report be fired? I discuss on The #KellyFile w/ @megynkelly on @FoxNews at 9:30 pm ET.

http://twitter.com/MarkEiglarsh - 5m


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

The catholic example is not a valid comparison with Gothard and the fundamental movement.

Sure it is.. Some people will follow every word. Some will become nuns and priests, some will skirt around the middle and some will go twice a year but still call themselves catholics. Every religion in this country has all different degrees of membership and adherence.

 

[nightwatch]

They would have had to have forgiven him in the present to have him be part of their lives. I don't think anyone else can say who should get or give forgiveness. None of us were hurt so that is up to those injured but it seems to me the forgiveness is current. People do horrible awful things and still are forgiven. Forgiveness is powerful for those who believe in it. I will never forget over the years pictures of families of murdered loved ones showing forgiveness for the person who killed their child or for the families of that murderer.

Imo parents of murdered victims forgiving is a whole different topic. One of the victims is still a minor and these children had to live with him after he molested them, what else would one expect them to say he's living in their face everyday. Idk maybe my empathy for the victims clouds my thoughts about it being cruel to have to live with a brother who molested them. How many nights did they lay awake afraid to go to asleep.... I respect your opinion. Jmo

ciao

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

SS - I feel for you and hope your optimism pans out.

I on the other hand can't get past the reports and the coverup.

I don't know that I have optimism. I have a lot of thoughts about it but optimism is not one of them.
No matter what little girls were touched. I don't know how far it went or what it involved but it was inappropriate and assault nonetheless. I feel most for the girls who have now been outed. That is who my heart hearts for the most in this. I worry what impact this will have on them having the world know that their own brother hurt them.

I also have to wonder if Josh himself was not some victim of abuse at some point.

I have lots of thoughts I just don't know how to wrap this one up for me.. If that makes sense. I am hoping that in the coming months there will be a fuller picture of what really happened and that somehow these girls will be able to move forward.

 

[LaneGirl]

Sure it is.. Some people will follow every word. Some will become nuns and priests, some will skirt around the middle and some will go twice a year but still call themselves catholics. Every religion in this country has all different degrees of membership and adherence.

Have you read much on the Duggars? or watched their TV show? The kids must go out in 2's because it's not safe alone. The girls can't wear pants because it might arouse a male. This family openly talks about their ATI homeschooling, you may find it interesting to look at some of the curriculum. The parents openly talk about following this "faith" if you will and are pretty proud that they follow it as strictly as they can. No "front" hugging, holding hands or kissing even when they are engaged. So to your point....

By their own admission they try to be pretty strict adherents to their beliefs.

 

[Bernina]

Nah; not buying all of that and I'm a conservative republican. It's not a political issue and it's not about their stand on other issues.

IMO it seems like there was a coverup here and I want to find out more because it could very well be that someone will owe society a debt that needs to be paid.

It's about justice honestly

Bottom line, it was several illegal acts perpetrated on 5 different minors by the same predator several different times. He was supposedly told it was "inappropriate" (or whatever the Duggar's want to call it) the first time he was busted, but he continued the behavior. Just how does a 5 year old entice of 14, 15 year old? And with all that moral religious dogma Duggar was brought up in? Or was it the girl's fault because no one yelled "Nike"?

I call that recidivism.
I also believe that it can twist the ideas of right and wrong in the minds of his victims and they will allow the same tragedy to happen to their children.

I don't care what Duggar, his clan, or his supporters think...........what he did was SICK. As a victim/survivor myself, I'd just as soon see him take a dirt nap.

Politics, religion, schooling, NONE of that has any bearing. Ignorance is no excuse.....see how well that flies in a court of law. It wouldn't fly in Prison either.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Have you read much on the Duggars? or watched their TV show? The kids must go out in 2's because it's not safe alone. The girls can't wear pants because it might arouse a male. This family openly talks about their ATI homeschooling, you may find it interesting to look at some of the curriculum. The parents openly talk about following this "faith" if you will and are pretty proud that they follow it as strictly as they can. No "front" hugging, holding hands or kissing even when they are engaged. So to your point....

By their own admission they try to be pretty strict adherents to their beliefs.

I have watched it for years.. I know as much as anyone can from a reality show. making your children go out in 2s is not uncommon among people. They don't believe in pants for girls neither do the Amish, or some Indians, or Muslims. I don't see how what they wear matters much. There is nothing wrong with faith or a life rooted in your faith.

Even the courting while it may not be common place in this culture it still is in many around the world to not have any contact until marriage.
IT may be odd but it is not criminal or that out there. Just not something that is usual for this day and age. but a few decades back, all this was common place.
People get to pick how they raise their families and those practices there, are just not the norm.. nothing else. imo

 

[Hiandmighty]

Sure it is.. Some people will follow every word. Some will become nuns and priests, some will skirt around the middle and some will go twice a year but still call themselves catholics. Every religion in this country has all different degrees of membership and adherence.

Catholicism is as much an ethnicity as it is a religion.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Catholicism is as much an ethnicity as it is a religion.

Huh? Catholicism is not an ethnicity.
It is a chosen religion.