AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #3

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I want to say something here that might make some people feel really uncomfortable, but I think it's important to talk about, because it is another relaity of sexual abuse that is overlooked and not well understood by most people. One of the things that can make sexual abuse so confusing for children is that it isn't always terrifying. Very often, in fact, it feels good. This can cause all kinds of confusing feelings--especially once the child grows older and starts to process what really happened to them and what it all meant.

Sometimes, especially in a chaotic family where mom and dad are kind of absent or distant, the sexual abuse can seem like physical affection. An older trusted brother is showing affection or giving them attention. It may feel good. But maybe the perpetrator says never to tell anyone because they will get in trouble--and then they get the idea that this is something shameful and secret, but they don't know exactly why. These are children--so they know on one level that someone touching their privates is wrong, but they don't know all the reasons why this is so and it's a trusted older brother or other relative and it's not necessarily scary or painful--so it's very confusing.

Once the victim figures out what happened to them--they feel guilty--because maybe it felt good. This can happen with women who are educated and feminist and would never blame the victim--but somehow their little girl brain processes all of this as "consensual" even though a 9 year old doesn't ever consent to a 14 or 15 year old. Think about how messed up that would be in a home like the Duggars, where there's already plenty of blaming the victim talk and "defrauding."

Thanks for posting this. I was an overworked single mom to an 8 year old daughter, when I met a man who seemed to be a dream come true. He was big enough to seem intimidating, was protective of Lauren and myself, but a big teddy-bear most of the time. He was looking for a wife, told me he owned his home, 4 vehicles he paid cash for, and a cabin on 19 acres in West Virginia. He seemed to love not only me, but my daughter, and I was thrilled he took an interest in her, since she was a non-negotiable part of the package deal. I worked long hours, while he worked just a few hours a week collecting rent on properties he told me he owned with a partner, and occasionally doing minor repairs. I had enrolled my daughter in summer camps for the entire first summer, but more often than not, she preferred to stay with Donnie, running errands, swimming in a nearby creek, building birdhouses and just hanging out. When the next school year began, I was planning to enroll her in before-school and after-school programs at the school, which were run by the YMCA. Lauren's dad said he was not willing to pay his share, since Donnie was available to watch Lauren during those hours.

Donnie and I got married shortly before the start of that school year, and for the next two years, he made sure she got up, showered, had breakfast, and got to school on time. He also molested her numerous times. At the time she did not know that what they were doing was a "sex thing" and it was not hurting her physically, quite the opposite in fact. She never mentioned it to me. If she had, we would have been out the door, but on the surface he seemed like an exceptional stepfather although he was a horrible husband.

In the first few months after we married, I learned that he had purchased two of his vehicles with money borrowed from friends and family that had never been repaid, did not own his house, but did odd-jobs for the man he had claimed was his partner in exchange for the rent on the house we lived in (that man is currently incarcerated for 53 years for molesting boys). He had lied about a lot of things... telling me he had attended a prestigious prep school, when in fact he had been kicked out of two "disciplinary academies" before being admitted to a mental hospital where he stayed for a year and a half. He got his diploma while there, and was released when he turned 18. He did not have a cabin on 19 acres, he had a decrepit, dry-rotted pop-up camper (crank was broken so he tied it up to a tree so it was always open) filled with bees, ants, and squirrel-nests that he had illegally parked on land he did not own, or even know the owners of. He had several children I was not aware of (for whom he provided no financial support), a felony conviction for drugs, and developed an addiction to pain medications that spanned the duration of our marriage. He chain-smoked cigarettes, and drank more alcohol than I have ever seen anyone drink before or since (and I was raised by alcoholic parents!).

He stopped working and I was left to support the three of us. He soon declared bankruptcy to the tune of $60K for unsecured loans, and had the nerve to include the debt to his mom for one vehicle and to his employer/"partner" for the other. The remaining two were claimed by their owners. I paid for food, rent, utilities, vehicle insurance, gas, and maintenance, as well as his cigarettes, alcohol, medical insurance, copays, and prescriptions. I was so overwhelmed that maybe I missed some signs there was an inappropriate relationship going on between him and my child. Once his bankruptcy was discharged, his attorney told me we could file a joint tax return without repercussions, but a letter from the IRS informed me otherwise. Unbeknownst to me or his attorney, he had failed to file a return one year 15 years prior and was being hit for thousands of dollars in fines and interest. The IRS seized my $1700 refund to cover a portion of it.

When she was in 5th grade, my daughter learned from a sex education class that sex acts between an adult and a child are illegal. She did not understand that she had done nothing wrong and put an end to the sexual interactions because she was afraid she would be arrested. It was several years before I learned what had transpired, and even then, it slipped out accidentally. She had been in counseling since I discovered she was cutting herself, and had steadfastly denied ever having been molested. One day, it slipped out accidentally. I asked her why she had denied it for so long and she said "I didn't think they meant THAT".

She is 23 now, and her molester is up for parole this summer. She is not ready for the possibility of encountering him once he is released, nor am I. We both experience panic attacks when we see someone who resembles him or hear someone who sounds like him. He also introduced a lot of "housekeeping rules" and made-up words for things that we still use to this day, and it surprises me how much a part of our lives he is each time I catch myself using one of "his words" or doing things "his way". Lauren is a basket case. She is promiscuous in the extreme, posts nude photos to the internet regularly, belongs to a fetish community, and attends "swinger" parties. She can't seem to hold a job, keep a boyfriend, manage money, or even maintain a routine personal hygiene regime. I recently had to ask her to move out of my house after giving her numerous chances to stay by meeting simple requirements that she get back into counseling (she has now been out of counseling and off meds for 18 months and that is not a good thing), look for work, and have her criminal record for shoplifting expunged (before she gets into any other trouble that will prevent her being able to do so). It broke my heart, but I was out of options.

Sorry this has meandered WAY off topic, but my point was that I was not "neglectful" just overworked and grateful to have someone who seemed to love my daughter to take up some of the slack. I stayed with a man I knew was an @$$#01e for two years because I believed it was in Lauren's best interests that I do so. The abuse that occurred did not hurt her, she enjoyed the special attention, and was not traumatized by it until she was old enough to understand what had happened was wrong, but NOT her fault. The abuse ended when she was 10, but 13 years later, she still suffers the aftereffects, and I don't know whether there is a happy ending for her. I have been in counseling off and on over the years, and while it helps, nothing will make the panic attacks (diagnosed PTSD) go away for ME, so I can only imagine what it is like for her. She believes she is fine and that her lifestyle is a choice. Those who love her see things from a different perspective and though we reach out to offer her our support and advice, our words fall on deaf ears.
 
I just lost all respect for Jill and Jessa too, in their interview they swore up and down that DHS commended Jim Bob and Michelle for their handling of the (what we now learned is the original) DHS situation. They failed to mention that DHS showed up a week earlier to the filiming of the interview and they refused DHS access whereby the police had to be called.

They also swore that there were no other skeletons in their closet. All these two care about is either keeping 19Kids on the air or getting a spin-off. I never want to see them on TV again.

TLC, what is taking you so long to cancel these criminals, liars and hypocrites!?!!?

I am not sure they knew DHS had come back, since neither lives in the family home.
 
Timeline of Events Versus Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolong...versus-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar-interview/


From Josh and Anna's website

Josh: That Christmas came and went in 2001. My father was serving as State Representative in our area and he was just beginning his campaign statewide for U.S. Senate. Although he lost the election, God used it through a series of events to catch the eye of the Discovery Health Channel. In 2004 our first documentary was aired.

Ohhh, So that's how they got the show...
Jim Bob LOST the Election for Senator of Arkansas so that God could let the Discovery Channel "discover" the family...gotcha :lol:


*from Anna
I noticed how Joshua, then age sixteen, shared the importance of guarding his heart and waiting for someone who would really love him and wasn’t going to just get carried away with their emotions.
http://ja20.com/ourstory/
 
TLC undoubtedly knew all about the police report and the charges against JD from back in 2007 because, IIRC, as other posters have mentioned on previous threads, TLC was filming the series during the time that JD sued D. The producers and crew would have seen the preparation and discussions going on about the court case even if they weren't including it in the filmed scenes.

The police did not press charges against JD, even though there was no question that he had committed the offence, because the statute of limitations had run out, however, as mandated reporters, they turned the report over to the Families in Need of Services for further action.

The Department of Human Services (DHS) was then brought into the case, In Touch has learned. Nine months after those agencies entered the Duggar molestation case, Josh Duggar sued the Arkansas Department of Human Services. A trial was held on August 6, 2007.

The results of the investigation into the Duggars and Josh’s trial are sealed. But a source familiar with the Duggar investigation told In Touch it was likely that Josh “appealed the DHS decision or finding from their investigation.” The source notes that DHS had the authority to apply “restrictions or stipulations about him being at home with the victims.

“Josh would be considered an in-home offender, giving DHS the authority to do an investigation. As part of your appeal rights you can request a DHS hearing to challenge what they found and their ruling.”
http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/...e-arkansas-department-of-human-services-59201

It seems to me that DHS could have had requirements that would make it awkward for JD at times during the filming of the TLC series, and he sued in order to change those requirements. This may have been mentioned up-thread as well, but perhaps the counselling to which the Duggar sisters referred in the CNN "interview" was, in fact, mandated by DHS. By 2007, JD would have been earning a salary and could have paid for his own therapy. Especially, IMO, if it affected his ability to appear on 19kac. Again, this is my speculation, but TLC should have been informed of any conditions that would have affected the way in which scenes could be structured.

As well, InTouch says "The Duggars are refusing to comment on the intervention by either department and Josh’s trial against DHS. "
 
I guess in a way it hardly matters. Supporting hatemongers or having hatemongers support you doesn't fly well with many people. He has about as much of a chance at winning the nomination as Chuck E. Cheese.

I already said I don't vote any more and why but I may revise it for the next election. I will vote for the person who makes an ad/ sticker/slogan that equates a vote for Huck is a vote for child molesters !
 
I guess in a way it hardly matters. Supporting hatemongers or having hatemongers support you doesn't fly well with many people. He has about as much of a chance at winning the nomination as Chuck E. Cheese.
Or Donald Trump. :laughing:
 
LisaB, thank you for sharing your painful story. I wish I could reach out through the universe and hug you. I hope you can also get counseling for the PTSD. I did and it has helped "frame" things, and I am better equipped to manage the anxiety, hyper vigilance, fear etc. My heart goes out to you and Lauren. Xo
 

I guess that what we're supposed to take away from this is if you offer some sort of pedestrian apology for something (like, say, multiple sexual assaults on minors) that you should be forgiven, and give things a week or two to set in, you can resume your previous life, full of sanctimonious accusations on others, without any repercussions. But that's just my reading of this.

Oh, and it's worth noting that, from what I've read of the things posted upthread, the Duggars' religious philosophy is not just sexist and homophobic -- there would seem to be other groups that they hate on the basis of their religion. And yet TLC kept supporting them and broadcasting their ideas.
 
I guess that what we're supposed to take away from this is if you offer some sort of pedestrian apology for something (like, say, multiple sexual assaults on minors) that you should be forgiven, and give things a week or two to set in, you can resume your previous life, full of sanctimonious accusations on others, without any repercussions. But that's just my reading of this.

Oh, and it's worth noting that, from what I've read of the things posted upthread, the Duggars' religious philosophy is not just sexist and homophobic -- there would seem to be other groups that they hate on the basis of their religion. And yet TLC kept supporting them and broadcasting their ideas.

Don't forget the part where you suggest that the victims and Jesus have forgiven you so why can't everybody else?
 
Timeline of Events Versus Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolong...versus-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar-interview/


From Josh and Anna's website

Josh: That Christmas came and went in 2001. My father was serving as State Representative in our area and he was just beginning his campaign statewide for U.S. Senate. Although he lost the election, God used it through a series of events to catch the eye of the Discovery Health Channel. In 2004 our first documentary was aired.

Ohhh, So that's how they got the show...
Jim Bob LOST the Election for Senator of Arkansas so that God could let the Discovery Channel "discover" the family...gotcha :lol:


*from Anna
I noticed how Joshua, then age sixteen, shared the importance of guarding his heart and waiting for someone who would really love him and wasn’t going to just get carried away with their emotions.
http://ja20.com/ourstory/

I had NO IDEA God watches TV. That might explain a lot. :lol:
 
I guess that what we're supposed to take away from this is if you offer some sort of pedestrian apology for something (like, say, multiple sexual assaults on minors) that you should be forgiven, and give things a week or two to set in, you can resume your previous life, full of sanctimonious accusations on others, without any repercussions. But that's just my reading of this. Oh, and it's worth noting that, from what I've read of the things posted upthread, the Duggars' religious philosophy is not just sexist and homophobic -- there would seem to be other groups that they hate on the basis of their religion. And yet TLC kept supporting them and broadcasting their ideas.

So if we follow the money on TLC, whose name will show up?
Who was supporting this show in spite of knowing about the charges lurking in the background for the past, what, seven or eight or more years?
TLC dropped Here Comes Honey Boo Boo fast enough, and this is in the same category. Why the different treatment?
Who in the executive may agree with all the stances that the Duggars promote through this show which they seem to all be saying is their ministry?
Why is TLC promoting at least two homophobic, anti-intellectual, misogynistic shows?

I think that if people don't want to see any form of 19kac, pressure will have to continue to be put on the sponsors.
And the executives who were aware all along about JD's little mistakes and the involvement of DHS.
 
Echoing EllieBee.

Sending you airhugs from Lotus Land.

((((LisaB and Lauren)))

Thank you for sharing your story. Wow, you've got grit!!
 
Good morning,

Let's not turn this into a political discussion..

Feel free to discuss the people in politics who have come out for or against the Duggars but keep the discussion to their support or non-support of the Duggars.

Thank you
Tricia
 
LisaB, thank you for sharing your painful story. I wish I could reach out through the universe and hug you. I hope you can also get counseling for the PTSD. I did and it has helped "frame" things, and I am better equipped to manage the anxiety, hyper vigilance, fear etc. My heart goes out to you and Lauren. Xo

I have been in counseling for most of the last 10 years! I never thought I would throw my daughter out of the house, even though she was 23 and making horrible choices, because I feel so horrible about what happened to her when I was supposed to be protecting her. But she repeatedly fails to do anything to improve her situation, and as she is a legal adult (who acts 12), I could not FORCE her to go to counseling, get her shoplifting charges expunged, shower, brush her teeth, clean her room or get a job. I could yell until I was blue in the face, but the only REAL option I had to hold over her was that I would throw her out if she did not comply. I originally told her that the "deadline" was her 21st birthday, since she was long out of school and we were doing little but argue when we were together. Then she met a GREAT guy, and I decided to cut her some slack, so the two of them could save enough money to get their own place and get married. The "deadline" was pushed back 18 months.

She treated him like a checkbook, and did not work most of the time they were together, aside from burlesque and nude/fetish modeling which brought in less than she spent on wardrobe items. When he lost his job and fell behind on some other bills, I extended the date an additional 6 months, to her 23rd birthday. Then last spring, I started seeing a new counselor who helped me realize that the option of forcing her to move out and be self-sufficient was not only a legitimate option, but one I would be fully justified in taking.

In order to make it even easier on them, I offered to let them rent out my house at a significant discount ($300 a month plus utilities for a 3BR 2½ bath rowhome... and they would not even have to pack and move!), and I moved out. When she dumped Doug (her then-fiance) a year ago, I told her that she had one last chance, and had 3 months rent-free to get her act together or get out. She needed to look for work or apply for disability and public assistance, take steps toward clearing her criminal record, get back in counseling and take any prescribed medication, and keep the place clean and sanitary.

I came by one day a few weeks before the 3 months ended and the house was in HORRIFYING condition. Her cats were using the rugs in lieu of the litter box, there were bags of trash piled up in the kitchen with flies buzzing around them, and the sink was full of crusty dishes. I told her there was no way I could let her stay on. I felt awful, but stuck to my guns. She had a hard time finding an apartment, and her father convinced me to let her stay just a couple more weeks, which became a couple more. It was 6 weeks after her birthday before she moved. I helped her with that. I also provided bags of groceries, helped a little bit financially, and have tried to be there for her, although she doesn't seem at all interested in seeing me other than a drive by to pick up bread (we get surplus Panera Bread here at work one day a week). She rarely even gets out of the car, just pulls up outside the building and rolls down the passenger window so I can put a box inside.

I wish I had not HAD to do this. I love her to pieces and want her in my life. But she is an adult, is obviously angry with me for "kicking her out" and I don't know if she will EVER come around. I hope she will, because she is my only child and a generous compassionate person on her good days. I miss her like crazy, but my counselor assures me that what I did was the best thing for both of us.
 
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