Identified! AR- West Memphis -"Laundry Lady" WhtFem 643UFAR, 45-60, Sep'87 No Name Available

[dearmont]

There seems to be some confusion about what is on LL's T-Shirt which could throw us off, Is it "Kowloon, Roseburg, OR" or "Kowloon Rosebud, OR". My thought is this - if it came from a restaurant, would'nt the word "restaurant" be on the T-shirt - as a form of advertising? Perhaps it's the name of a boat or fishing trawler - the "Kowloon Rosebud" ? I'll check USCG site for a registry - can't hurt?

 

[lorelei]

There seems to be some confusion about what is on LL's T-Shirt which could throw us off, Is it "Kowloon, Roseburg, OR" or "Kowloon Rosebud, OR". My thought is this - if it came from a restaurant, would'nt the word "restaurant" be on the T-shirt - as a form of advertising? Perhaps it's the name of a boat or fishing trawler - the "Kowloon Rosebud" ? I'll check USCG site for a registry - can't hurt?

There is a Kowloon Restaurant in Roseburg, OR, it seems to be a Chinese restaurant that has been around for years and years. I would guess that is the place the shirt came from. Also it says 'Tiki Room' on the back of the shirt- I've never been sure exactly what a tiki room is but I think it would fit with a restaurant?

 

[believe09]

She is just as confused as we are, lol. She said she will check into it. As capoly pointed out, one is a MedEx listing and one is a volunteer listing, same NCIC, two different NAMUS ID numbers with differing descriptions of the remains.

Clear as mud, lol.

 

[JaneInOz]

I think they are the same

And I posted the details of the restaurant on the very first page of this thread
The place and the fact that the Tiki room is known as a bar

 

[believe09]

OK- as capoly et al mentioned, it is a duplicate entry. Ms. Culberson indicated that she enters data from a different database, and that of course the ME entry has more detailed info. She will be deleting her entry, but I asked her to have the Merit 100 info and the cigarette case info added to the MedEx report because it helps to narrow the field of candidates......

 

[capoly]

OK- as capoly et al mentioned, it is a duplicate entry. Ms. Culberson indicated that she enters data from a different database, and that of course the ME entry has more detailed info. She will be deleting her entry, but I asked her to have the Merit 100 info and the cigarette case info added to the MedEx report because it helps to narrow the field of candidates......

Thank you, believe09. :blowkiss:

 

[believe09]

It may very well be coming down to DNA-Jane Doe does not have a hysterectomy scar or a notation regarding a fractured wrist bone.

The pro's of course are appearance, age, height, weight, build, both woman had a complete set of dentures, both were smokers.

 

[Fairy1]

It may very well be coming down to DNA-Jane Doe does not have a hysterectomy scar or a notation regarding a fractured wrist bone.

The pro's of course are appearance, age, height, weight, build, both woman had a complete set of dentures, both were smokers.

Oh my stars - I'm on pins and needles with this case!!! BTW believe09 - LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your new avatar!!! Thank you for keeping us in the loop on this.

 

[future criminologist]

It may very well be coming down to DNA-Jane Doe does not have a hysterectomy scar or a notation regarding a fractured wrist bone.

The pro's of course are appearance, age, height, weight, build, both woman had a complete set of dentures, both were smokers.

so are they going to do DNA now? how long until we know if there's a match?

 

[capoly]

It may very well be coming down to DNA-Jane Doe does not have a hysterectomy scar or a notation regarding a fractured wrist bone.

The pro's of course are appearance, age, height, weight, build, both woman had a complete set of dentures, both were smokers.

And yet another addition to Namus.
This victim was walking along the north service road of Highway 61 when this victim was struck by a vehicle. The occupants of the vehicle that they thought they hit a barrell in the road. The victim was thrown approximately 150 feet from point of impact. A card was found on victims body that had a name and number of a subject. The subject was called and subject reportedly stated that 1 week before victim's death subject had given a ride to a person fitting description of deceased from Nashville, Tennessee. Subject stated this victim was from Phoenix, Arizona and her name was Mary.

https://identifyus.org/report.php?p=individual&i=2882
Added 2/12/2008

Would have thought this information be made public from the start. IMO Mary may or may not have been her real name considering she may have been in hiding. Sure would like to know who the 'subject' was.

believe09, are you wicked or weary?....cause your sure not getting rest on this one.


eta believe09, doesn't look like the Merit 100 info was passed on to this listing.

 

[capoly]

NamUs-UP #: 2882
Case Number: 320-87
NCIC Number: U266144136
Date Found: September 9, 1987
Location: West Memphis,Crittenden Co. AR

• Race/sex: White Female
• Age est: 45 to 60 year old
• Weight: 160, measured
• Height: 64, measured
• Hair: Brown and curly
• Eyes: Hazel
• Fingerprints: Available
• Dental: Upper and Lower dentures.
• DNA: No sample available to submit

Clothing:
Outerwear:

• Blue jeans "Dakota" label
• Red t-shirt: Front "Kawloon Roseburg, Oregon" Back "Tiki Room"

Underwear:

• White brassiere
• White panties/green trim

Other:

• Beige shoes-s8M

Personal belongings (used):

• Shampoo: Gee Your Hair Smells Terrific
• Fabric Softener: Downy
• Laundry Detergent: Tide
• Lotion: Vaseline Intensive Care
• Toothpaste: Cologate
• Folding Toothbrush: Yellow
• Money: 1 dollar bill, nickel, penny

*BGE CIG CASE-CHAIN SM0KER/MERIT 100

Circumstances:

• On Sept 9, 1987 in West Memphis, AR this victim was walking along the North Service Rd of Highway 61 when this victim was struck by a vehicle.
  
• The occupants of the vehicle thought they hit a barrel in the road.
  
• The victim was thrown approx 150 feet from point of impact.
  
• There was a bag lying near the body which contained the used items listed under personal belongings.
  
• A card was found on victims body that had a name and number of a subject.
  
• The subject was called and subject reportedly stated that 1 week before victim's death subject had given a ride to a person fitting description of deceased from Nashville, Tennessee.
  
• Subject stated this victim was from Phoenix,AZ and her name was Mary.

---------------------


*Info obtained from deleted Namus listing:
UDRS # 4719
Case # 87090657
NCIC Number U266144136
Date Found 1987-09-09
Date Entered 2008-10-30 00:00
NamUs Focus Group
Debbie Culberson

Information as of 2/13.

 

[Julessleuther]

Ok--if the AZ information is in fact true, this is a possibility:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1474dfaz.html

I would love to see more info about the person from Nashville who gave her a ride. If she had traveled from Phoenix to Nashville to Arkansas, was she homeless? Did the person who gave her a ride say why she was going to West Memphis?

 

[capoly]

Ok--if the AZ information is in fact true, this is a possibility:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1474dfaz.html

I would love to see more info about the person from Nashville who gave her a ride. If she had traveled from Phoenix to Nashville to Arkansas, was she homeless? Did the person who gave her a ride say why she was going to West Memphis?

Would also love to see more info from that person. Going by that time frame LL was in West Memphis a week, yet she is walking around with those items in a bag? Would like to see the police report also.

I'm still inclined to feel LL is Rosie....the reverse photo shows a resemblance that's hard to ignore. But also feel it is good to keep an open mind especially when information is still coming forth.

Vernette Lorraine Wester does have a similiar look, Julessleuther. Does the wording describing the scar, 'Scar extending from the upper middle part of forehead to the back of her head.', sound like we should be able to see it in photo?

AR MedEx has stated LL has no scars according to 1987 autopsy records. With all due respect to the present MedEX, from what I've been reading, AR autopsy records from years past were not always accurate in detail.

ETA Wonder why the 'subject' gave LL a card? Using the word card seems to suggest it was a business card of sorts. Memphis to West Memphis isn't much of a drive so not like there was time to form a caring relationship.

 

[capoly]

Ok--if the AZ information is in fact true, this is a possibility:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1474dfaz.html

[snipped]

 

[Fairy1]

Well, I'm very disturbed by the different UID postings. It makes me question the credibility of ALL of them! However, I really believe LL is Rosie. If Rosie "ran away" from a bad situation, I doubt she would tell anyone where she was really from or her real name. JMO

 

[JaneInOz]

Oh my stars - I'm on pins and needles with this case!!! BTW believe09 - LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your new avatar!!! Thank you for keeping us in the loop on this.

ME TOO !! Im on pins and needles and I love Believes av - she is one of my all time favs I have a beautiful hard cover book on her life

And yet another addition to Namus.
This victim was walking along the north service road of Highway 61 when this victim was struck by a vehicle. The occupants of the vehicle that they thought they hit a barrell in the road. The victim was thrown approximately 150 feet from point of impact. A card was found on victims body that had a name and number of a subject. The subject was called and subject reportedly stated that 1 week before victim's death subject had given a ride to a person fitting description of deceased from Nashville, Tennessee. Subject stated this victim was from Phoenix, Arizona and her name was Mary.

https://identifyus.org/report.php?p=individual&i=2882
Added 2/12/2008

Would have thought this information be made public from the start. IMO Mary may or may not have been her real name considering she may have been in hiding. Sure would like to know who the 'subject' was.

believe09, are you wicked or weary?....cause your sure not getting rest on this one.


eta believe09, doesn't look like the Merit 100 info was passed on to this listing.

OH WOW to this this is CRAZY!

Im sorry but I don't think LL looks like Vernette

the ears are very different

Rosie definitely is by far the closes looking

I wish we knew who the person was that gave the lift

 

[believe09]

so are they going to do DNA now? how long until we know if there's a match?

And yet another addition to Namus.
This victim was walking along the north service road of Highway 61 when this victim was struck by a vehicle. The occupants of the vehicle that they thought they hit a barrell in the road. The victim was thrown approximately 150 feet from point of impact. A card was found on victims body that had a name and number of a subject. The subject was called and subject reportedly stated that 1 week before victim's death subject had given a ride to a person fitting description of deceased from Nashville, Tennessee. Subject stated this victim was from Phoenix, Arizona and her name was Mary.

https://identifyus.org/report.php?p=individual&i=2882
Added 2/12/2008

Would have thought this information be made public from the start. IMO Mary may or may not have been her real name considering she may have been in hiding. Sure would like to know who the 'subject' was.

believe09, are you wicked or weary?....cause your sure not getting rest on this one.


eta believe09, doesn't look like the Merit 100 info was passed on to this listing.

ME TOO !! Im on pins and needles and I love Believes av - she is one of my all time favs I have a beautiful hard cover book on her life



OH WOW to this this is CRAZY!

Im sorry but I don't think LL looks like Vernette

the ears are very different

Rosie definitely is by far the closes looking

I wish we knew who the person was that gave the lift

Oh My Land this is nuts!

I agree that Rosie would not have given her real name to folks if she fled because she thought she was in danger in her marriage. She really wasn't all that far from her home if this is indeed her. I also agree with capoly that AR appears to have numerous problems with post mortems/autopsies in the 80's and it is not hard to speculate that someone who appeared to be homeless might have been given short shrift.

They will likely need to exhume her to get a sample of DNA, which mean locating her from whatever "Potters Field" she was buried in. Not a simple task usually. So, the exhumation (expensive) and locating her are what will impact the collection of the DNA sample.

Now, if we can get dentals on Rosie and perhaps have them compared to LL-or trace serial numbers off of the plates?? Might be much faster, and cost effective.

 

[capoly]

Well, I'm very disturbed by the different UID postings. It makes me question the credibility of ALL of them! However, I really believe LL is Rosie. If Rosie "ran away" from a bad situation, I doubt she would tell anyone where she was really from or her real name. JMO

Oh My Land this is nuts!

I agree that Rosie would not have given her real name to folks if she fled because she thought she was in danger in her marriage. She really wasn't all that far from her home if this is indeed her. I also agree with capoly that AR appears to have numerous problems with post mortems/autopsies in the 80's and it is not hard to speculate that someone who appeared to be homeless might have been given short shrift.

They will likely need to exhume her to get a sample of DNA, which mean locating her from whatever "Potters Field" she was buried in. Not a simple task usually. So, the exhumation (expensive) and locating her are what will impact the collection of the DNA sample.

Now, if we can get dentals on Rosie and perhaps have them compared to LL-or trace serial numbers off of the plates?? Might be much faster, and cost effective.

Wonder if Ms Culberson's Namus listings might offer a clue to LL's burial location as , for the most part, her listings state Arkansas County as UID location. Perhaps the data she listed came from intake at a research facility, crematory or State owned Potters Field location? Have done a quick Google with results that need Googling so have found no answer as yet.


I don't intend to sound righteous here but with all the searching on LL that we WSers have done combined....nothing has been found that indicates AR LE at the time of LL's death, attempted to identify LL or find her next of kin in accordance with AR law. With this latest information indicating a possible connection to AZ, one would think some inkling of info would be found via AZ news articles or police releases. I've been Googling till the cows come home with zilch results.

Again don't intend to sound righteous here, but I'm thinking AR owes this woman the dignity of restoring her identity now. This has nothing to do with Rosie Baker..even as it has everything to do with Rosie....If LL is not Rosie than we can throw resemblance out the window as a way to assist in IDing. That leaves DNA.....without DNA LL may never be identified.

Now that thought riles me up quite a bit. :furious:

 

[believe09]

Wonder if Ms Culberson's Namus listings might offer a clue to LL's burial location as , for the most part, her listings state Arkansas County as UID location. Perhaps the data she listed came from intake at a research facility, crematory or State owned Potters Field location? Have done a quick Google with results that need Googling so have found no answer as yet.


I don't intend to sound righteous here but with all the searching on LL that we WSers have done combined....nothing has been found that indicates AR LE at the time of LL's death, attempted to identify LL or find her next of kin in accordance with AR law. With this latest information indicating a possible connection to AZ, one would think some inkling of info would be found via AZ news articles or police releases. I've been Googling till the cows come home with zilch results.

Again don't intend to sound righteous here, but I'm thinking AR owes this woman the dignity of restoring her identity now. This has nothing to do with Rosie Baker..even as it has everything to do with Rosie....If LL is not Rosie than we can throw resemblance out the window as a way to assist in IDing. That leaves DNA.....without DNA LL may never be identified.

Now that thought riles me up quite a bit. :furious:

Don't misunderstand me-there has been no reluctance on the part of ME to obtain DNA. I am trying to envision in my mind what steps they might take-could they still test her clothes, any blood or tissue that might have been preserved or is it too degraded? Exhumation is expensive, so I am sure there is some work being done to determine if there is an alternative to digging her up.

 

[capoly]

Don't misunderstand me-there has been no reluctance on the part of ME to obtain DNA. I am trying to envision in my mind what steps they might take-could they still test her clothes, any blood or tissue that might have been preserved or is it too degraded? Exhumation is expensive, so I am sure there is some work being done to determine if there is an alternative to digging her up.

Sorry, believe09, truly not intending to imply anything about present day MEdEX. And definitely don't think you were implying a reluctance on their part. I will edit my post if you feel that is what it implies. Just very frustrated that nothing can be found on LL re news articles in either AR or AZ. Think the 1987 AR news articles on deceased greyhounds tripped my WT# scale.

Salem posted a good article on IDing here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3311007#post3311007