ARDI -- new hope The return of the IDI

[Holdontoyourhat]

First of all, JB was tied up, how could she use her hands to scratch them beyond whatever DNA was found under her fingernails? Secondly, her fibers were contaminated by theirs when they both were in contact with the body. She may not have actively fought back if John had been habitually abusing her, after all these were her parents, and many victims do bond with their attackers- Stockholm syndrome I believe it's called. The reason no blood, I think is because JB was strangled first by the garrote pulled too tight, then they finished her off once they realized she was too far gone by hitting her with the golf club over the head. Now you have a closed-head trauma on an already dead victim. Overkill, but no blood. Patsy could have cleaned up any ink stains (or pineapple) later on because she wrote the note as an after fact.

The large hemorrhage on JBR's neck below and adjacent to the cord furrow is a sign that JBR was strangled to death, violently.

 

[Ravyn]

Now about being clean, JR said he took a shower that morning so he would be clean of any evidence then PR said he read the RN in his underwear.. Ok PR didn't think the bowl came from there but BR reconized it and BR and PR fingerprints are on the bowl..PR didn't change clothes but fibers from her sweater were found on the tape now how did it get there..

 

[LinasK]

Not that you need my help, LinasK, but just to add: it's called Child Abuse Accomodation Syndrome.

Other than that, I got nothing but love for you, LinasK, you know that. But I think the head blow came first.

Even still, SD, if the head blowcame first and resulted in a closed-head trauma (of which I have experience working with) vs. an open-head trauma would produce all of the bleeding internally and yet can cause severe brain injury, even death such as you might get in a car accident.

 

[LinasK]

Now about being clean, JR said he took a shower that morning so he would be clean of any evidence then PR said he read the RN in his underwear.. Ok PR didn't think the bowl came from there but BR reconized it and BR and PR fingerprints are on the bowl..PR didn't change clothes but fibers from her sweater were found on the tape now how did it get there..

And... fibers from John's black shirt made in Israel, were found in JB's panties...

 

[stereo21]

I don't doubt this girl was attacked, however, I see absolutely no connection to JB's murder, other than the odd coincidence that they both attended the same dance studio. So do lots of other unrelated girls. Millions of little girls take dance lessons, I did growing up, and my daughter does now. Red herring...

This just seems absurd.

Attacks were close in TIME, close in SPACE, similar in STYLE and could have similar MOTIVATIONS.

Don't get me wrong, I am on the fence on this one. The violent nature of JBR's death, including the sexual abuse and other things makes me think the following for sure:

1. The death:

a) This was a planned murder that took place too soon, or at the right time.

OR

b) it was the result of a violent-sexual encounter that escalated as a result of the activities or frustrations of the attacker.

I do not think that Patsey got mad at JB for bedwetting and broke her skull, than planned an elaborate sexual staging which also happened to coincide with ACTUAL sexual abuse.

If she did do this, it was an indication that she wanted to kill/seriously injure JBR anyway. If she really did this, I also believe she was complicit in her sexual abuse.

2. The RN indicates either

a) staging to throw off the LE no matter who wrote it

OR

b) is the result of a failed kidnapping (NOT by a SFF).

I believe that if 2(b) then its clearly an intruder or family friend. I believe that the kidnapping would have been permanent, for sexual abuse, and ultimately would have lead to JBR's death. I do think that the language was designed to throw off LE again here.

 

[BBB167893]

Even still, SD, if the head blowcame first and resulted in a closed-head trauma (of which I have experience working with) vs. an open-head trauma would produce all of the bleeding internally and yet can cause severe brain injury, even death such as you might get in a car accident.

I do not believe I said otherwise.

 

[stereo21]

And... fibers from John's black shirt made in Israel, were found in JB's panties...

hmm...

 

[BBB167893]

I do not think that Patsy got mad at JB for bedwetting and broke her skull,

For what it's worth, stereo21, I don't either, not the way you're thinking.

than planned an elaborate sexual staging which also happened to coincide with ACTUAL sexual abuse.

I don't think it WAS a coincidence.

If she did do this, it was an indication that she wanted to kill/seriously injure JBR anyway.

That's a different kettle of fish.

If she really did this, I also believe she was complicit in her sexual abuse.

If there one thing LinasK knows about, you just nailed it.

 

[LinasK]

This just seems absurd.

Attacks were close in TIME, close in SPACE, similar in STYLE and could have similar MOTIVATIONS.

Don't get me wrong, I am on the fence on this one. The violent nature of JBR's death, including the sexual abuse and other things makes me think the following for sure:

1. The death:

a) This was a planned murder that took place too soon, or at the right time.

OR

b) it was the result of a violent-sexual encounter that escalated as a result of the activities or frustrations of the attacker.

I do not think that Patsey got mad at JB for bedwetting and broke her skull, than planned an elaborate sexual staging which also happened to coincide with ACTUAL sexual abuse.

If she did do this, it was an indication that she wanted to kill/seriously injure JBR anyway. If she really did this, I also believe she was complicit in her sexual abuse.

2. The RN indicates either

a) staging to throw off the LE no matter who wrote it

OR

b) is the result of a failed kidnapping (NOT by a SFF).

I believe that if 2(b) then its clearly an intruder or family friend. I believe that the kidnapping would have been permanent, for sexual abuse, and ultimately would have lead to JBR's death. I do think that the language was designed to throw off LE again here.

Like you, I'm not a Patsy did it/Bedwetting Rage accident. I think this was a sex abuse crime by John, with Patsy helping him cover it up. Then again, Sandra Cantu's killer may make me re-think my position...

 

[madeleine]

Then how do we innocently explain John's shirt fibers being found in JB's panties?????

J.Ramsey 8/00 Interview

2 A. Bull****. I don't believe that.

3 I don't buy it. If you are trying to

4 disgrace my relationship with my daughter --

5 Q. Mr. Ramsey, I am not trying to

6 disgrace --

7 A. Well, I don't believe it. I

8 think you are. That's disgusting.




http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm

Wood did, however, tell cable talk-show host Larry King last fall that he "knows for a fact" that black fibers were not found in JonBenet's underwear (he didn't say how he knows this). And he said "there's any one of many innocent explanations for why the fibers (found in the paint tray, on the brush, and in the ligature) might be consistent with something Patsy was wearing." He offered only one such explanation: that Patsy had put JonBenet to bed the previous night. But that couldn't account for the fibers in the paint tray, and they couldn't account for the fibers on the brush used in the ligature and "tied into" the ligature, unless the fibers somehow transferred from Patsy's sweater to JonBenet's clothing and then to the brush and "tied into" the ligature.



------------------------

If you offer innocent explanations for something doesn't that mean that you CONFIRM the existence of it?

Interesting though that they deny the fibers from JR's shirt.Hmm,guess you can't have such an innocent explanation for THAT.

 

[madeleine]

http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm

THE PAINT TRAY - Photographs show the paint tray was located outside the door to the wine cellar in which JonBenet's body was found, and thus well removed from the blanket that creates the possible contamination problem with the fibers on the duct tape. The fibers were put in the paint tray sometime before or during the time a brush in the tray was used to tighten the cord around JonBenet's neck, because Patsy didn't have access to the tray thereafter. Patsy told prosecutors she had never worn the red sweater-jacket while painting. So there is no readily apparent explanation for how the fibers could have gotten there in a manner that doesn't implicate Patsy in the use of the brush in the paint tray around the time of her daughter's death.

 

[Roy23]

What you wish for me to believe, apparently, is that PR and JR were involved in an extraordinarily violent episode resulting in JBR's fractured skull, sexual injuries, and deep cord furrow in her neck with an associated large hemorrhage. Pens were used to write hundreds of words, pineapple was eaten, paintbrushes were broken, heads were bashed.

Yet, thru it all, the parents emerge without a single, overt 'smoking gun' sign. Not a scratch from anything on arms,face, or hands. No ink, no pineapple stain, no blood.

Additionally, multiple items intimate to the murder cannot be determined to have ever been at the R's house before.

These facts tend to preclude an accident scenario, the nature of an accident being usually accidental, unplanned, chaotic. Perhaps a premeditated plot of some sort would be more plausible?

Holdon,

You are on fire and I have to give you major props on this. I guess everyone's line is drawn in the sand. I am 90% sure that you will be right eventually. And, I also believe this Amy case may be a link as well. I think they will make an announcement later since there are still so many people who think RDI.

I hope all RDI and IDI continue to email and badger the new DA with information. They might just tell us a few more tidbits and we can find something else to do with our time.

 

[BBB167893]

J.Ramsey 8/00 Interview

2 A. Bull****. I don't believe that.

3 I don't buy it. If you are trying to

4 disgrace my relationship with my daughter --

5 Q. Mr. Ramsey, I am not trying to

6 disgrace --

7 A. Well, I don't believe it. I

8 think you are. That's disgusting.

madeleine, if you haven't seen the video of that, you're missing half the story. He looked like he'd wet his pants.

If you offer innocent explanations for something doesn't that mean that you CONFIRM the existence of it?

That's right.

Interesting though that they deny the fibers from JR's shirt.Hmm,guess you can't have such an innocent explanation for THAT.

You would be kind of hard-pressed.

 

[madeleine]

madeleine, if you haven't seen the video of that, you're missing half the story. He looked like he'd wet his pants.

yeah well I can't find it anywhere :furious:
most of the videos re this case were removed from the internet,why is that

 

[BBB167893]

yeah well I can't find it anywhere :furious:
most of the videos re this case were removed from the internet,why is that

Probably because they were only broadcast brieflt to start with.

 

[stereo21]

best evidence that JonBenet was murdered has always been the force of the blow to her head and the apparent viciousness of her strangulation. Each is a flimsy foundation for a conclusion of murder. As a legal term, "murder" occurs when someone acts with the intent to kill. To say the power of a blow to the head speaks to the intent of the one delivering it is a crude tool for legal analysis. The blow, no matter how hard, could have been accidental, or unintentionally life-threatening. And the strangulation, if done on a limp, seemingly lifeless body, could have been motivated by someone's desire to stage the scene to distract. Tie a cord around her neck and stick a finger in her vagina and you'll have people thinking sex crime. Some did.

Just FYI this analysis of "murder" is somewhat incorrect. If someone hit JonBenet really really hard with a metal bat, they would likely be charged with murder, whether or not they had the intention of causing her death. Just like if I shoot you, only intending to really mess you up, but you die, I am a murderer. (in most states)

Depraved heart murder, which is definitely in Colorado's murder statute, would likely substitute here even if the attacker could prove they only intended to "knock" JB out. Several murder statutes provide for 1st degree murder if you intend to cause serious bodily harm, but actually kill someone. I was unable to determine if Colorado has this definition of 1st degree murder.

EDIT: The above snippit is from the article linked http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm

EDIT2: http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpex...id=5ae26baf.54ec967d.0.0&q=[Group '18-3-102']

 

[BBB167893]

Just FYI this analysis of "murder" is somewhat incorrect. If someone hit JonBenet really really hard with a metal bat, they would likely be charged with murder, whether or not they had the intention of causing her death. Just like if I shoot you, only intending to really mess you up, but you die, I am a murderer. (in most states)

Depraved heart murder, which is definitely in Colorado's murder statute, would likely substitute here even if the attacker could prove they only intended to "knock" JB out. Several murder statutes provide for 1st degree murder if you intend to cause serious bodily harm, but actually kill someone. I was unable to determine if Colorado has this definition of 1st degree murder.

EDIT: The above snippit is from the article linked http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-main.htm

EDIT2: http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpex...id=5ae26baf.54ec967d.0.0&q=[Group '18-3-102']

Just spitballing here, but what if the person didn't even intend to cause grievous bodily harm and it happened anyway?

 

[madeleine]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlU6ErG4mZg&feature=related"]YouTube - Write From The Author Episode 6 Part 1 JonBenet[/ame]

 

[madeleine]

And it's getting better

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJYiEN1OnI&feature=related"]YouTube - Write From The Author Episode 7 Part 1 JonBenet[/ame]


I think I agree that strangulation came first.
And yes,IF it was a staging,the head blow was part of it ,it was done to make it look like a brutal attack when this was nothing but a sick game gone wrong. jmo

 

[madeleine]

And LOL@ a district attorney who behaves like a defense lawyer.How true.