Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[aRnd2it]

like the the others totally ignore the evidence of an intruder.

Jasmine, let me make it REAL simple for you:

There is NO evidence of an intruder--If there was a single piece of evidence that proved there was an intruder the Ramseys would no longer be the only suspects in the crime.

Sorry Jasmine, but that's just how it works. The Ramseys will go to their graves as the only suspects in this case.

 

[sissi]

Jasmine, let me make it REAL simple for you:

There is NO evidence of an intruder--If there was a single piece of evidence that proved there was an intruder the Ramseys would no longer be the only suspects in the crime.

Sorry Jasmine, but that's just how it works. The Ramseys will go to their graves as the only suspects in this case.

With all due respect, you are wrong! Why do so many ignore the stand that Keenan has taken on this case, when SHE ,not us, has access to the evidence?

 

[aRnd2it]

Why do so many ignore the stand that Keenan has taken on this case, when SHE ,not us, has access to the evidence?

Two reasons:

1) Keenan is a political puppet who holds an elected office. She will do or say anything to stay in office, including whatever is necessary to keep the Ramseys from suing the county which would be political suicide. If you knew anything about Boulder County you would know that Hunter and Keenan are considered "Dumb and Dumber".

2) Keenan is a dope who wanted to pin the crime on Santa Bill. (So much for her evaluation of evidence.)

 

[DocWatson]

Jasmine, let me make it REAL simple for you:

There is NO evidence of an intruder--If there was a single piece of evidence that proved there was an intruder the Ramseys would no longer be the only suspects in the crime.

And the DNA evidence is tied to the Ramseys in WHAT fashion? You can call Mary Keenan a dupe, but then what explains why a GJ wasn't able to hand down an indictment even after months of deliberation? Oh, don't tell me:
Alex Hunter, the GJ and everyone involved in the case before Mary Keenan ever arrived on the scene ALSO were dupes or idiots. Apparently the only smart person around is you. Perhaps you should run for DA in Boulder County, re-open this case and correct this apparent travesty of justice.

 

[aRnd2it]

You can call Mary Keenan a dupe, but then what explains why a GJ wasn't able to hand down an indictment even after months of deliberation?

You actually think the GJ means something? Maybe you should take time out to learn how the system works, DocWatson. There were THREE Ramseys in the house that night. Any of the THREE could have caused her death. There will NEVER be enough conclusive evidence to prove which one of the THREE actually killed her, and which participated only in the coverup.

You can't just stand three people in front of a jury and say, "Take your pick!". Even you should be able to understand that much.

 

[BlueCrab]

... what explains why a GJ wasn't able to hand down an indictment even after months of deliberation?

Doc,

A grand jury cannot indict children too young to prosecute.

JMO

 

[Afton]

Hi Doc--I was debating the reason the Grand Jury was called...Was it only called to be investigative jury, or called as an investigative jury that could indict. I wanted to know for myself, so I looked it up and found the following quotes.

We also debated whether or not the grand jury "chose not to indict" or did Hunter choose "not to indict"

Lawrence Schiller -"Perfect Town Perfect Murder - 1st edition page 564 :

Smit: "In the thirty-two yeas as a law enforcement officer, Lou Smit had worked enough grand juries to know that "you can "indict a ham sandwich" if you present only one side of the case; What about all the evidence that had been found of an intruder' Smit asked himself. If Michael Kane was to introduce, any exculpatory evidence, he hadn't seen any signs of it yet...He was sure the Ramseys were going to be indicted."

"Smit didn't want his name associated with the case anymore. On September 19, he finished writing his letter of resignation".....

Page 570 Hunter "If an indictment was handed down, it would be his responsibility to sign it if he believed there was a case against either of the Ramseys. If he didn't see the evidence well, that was a bridge Hunter might have to cross later."
____________________________________

Steve Thomas - "JonBenet Inside the Murder Investigation" -page 350:

"obtaining an indictment would have been difficult, based on the evidence and the agreement of so many law enforcement"..

page 351 "So after meeting for a year and half, the grand jury adjourned in October 1999 without even issuing a report. Under law the grand jury has the option of writing a report but is not bound to do so, and the jurors usually follow the wishes of the district attorney. There was no indictment, no nothing,...It was odd, whimpering way to the end this extraordinary case, and it meant that district Attorney Alex Hunter did not have to explain anything to anyone."

"I and my prosecution task force believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time" said the district attorney"..

"Cloaked by the secrecy rules of the grand jury, Hunter can continue to dodge questions about what really happened"
___________________________________________________________________________________

John Douglas - "The Cases That Haunt Us". page 329:

On October 13, 1999, Alex Hunter and the grand jury announced that it had found insufficient evidence to indict anyone in the JonBenet Ramsey case. "Some speculated" that the final decision might have been Hunter's because under Colorado law, both the grand jury foreman and the district attorney must sign a true bill of indictment for it to take effect.

Steve Thomas condemned Hunter for not indicting the Ramseys and letting a jury decide the truth. Attorney and Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz declared Hunter a "constitutional hero" for taking all the barbs and not bringing a case to trial that he did not feel could be supported. This was just one more example of the huge and seemingly unbridgeable divisions this case has engendered.
____________________________________
John & Patsy Ramsey - "The Death of Innocence" page 352:

the Ramseys expected that they could be indicted--so it was more than investigative.
page 336: "The next morning, Oct 13, we were trying to determine what was going on. We figured we would probably be arrested first and then the DA would make an announcement of the fact... Announcing on television that someone was about to be arrested would generally not be done because it would serve as a warning for the suspect to flee. Surely Hunter wouldn't do that. Every once in a while the door bell would ring and we wondered if the Boulder Police would take us away."

page 357 "As we heard Hunter's words, we squeezed each other's hands"....
"I must report to you that I and my prosecutorial team believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time. Hunter concluded" "I couldn't believe my ears... The battered justice system worked...We had not been indicted!

 

[BlueCrab]

Hi Doc--I was debating the reason the Grand Jury was called...Was it only called to be investigative jury, or called as an investigative jury that could indict. I wanted to know for myself, so I looked it up and found the following quotes.

We also debated whether or not the grand jury "chose not to indict" or did Hunter choose "not to indict"

Lawrence Schiller -"Perfect Town Perfect Murder - 1st edition page 564 :

Smit: "In the thirty-two yeas as a law enforcement officer, Lou Smit had worked enough grand juries to know that "you can "indict a ham sandwich" if you present only one side of the case; What about all the evidence that had been found of an intruder' Smit asked himself. If Michael Kane was to introduce, any exculpatory evidence, he hadn't seen any signs of it yet...He was sure the Ramseys were going to be indicted."

"Smit didn't want his name associated with the case anymore. On September 19, he finished writing his letter of resignation".....

Page 570 Hunter "If an indictment was handed down, it would be his responsibility to sign it if he believed there was a case against either of the Ramseys. If he didn't see the evidence well, that was a bridge Hunter might have to cross later."
____________________________________

Steve Thomas - "JonBenet Inside the Murder Investigation" -page 350:

"obtaining an indictment would have been difficult, based on the evidence and the agreement of so many law enforcement"..

page 351 "So after meeting for a year and half, the grand jury adjourned in October 1999 without even issuing a report. Under law the grand jury has the option of writing a report but is not bound to do so, and the jurors usually follow the wishes of the district attorney. There was no indictment, no nothing,...It was odd, whimpering way to the end this extraordinary case, and it meant that district Attorney Alex Hunter did not have to explain anything to anyone."

"I and my prosecution task force believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time" said the district attorney"..

"Cloaked by the secrecy rules of the grand jury, Hunter can continue to dodge questions about what really happened"
___________________________________________________________________________________

John Douglas - "The Cases That Haunt Us". page 329:

On October 13, 1999, Alex Hunter and the grand jury announced that it had found insufficient evidence to indict anyone in the JonBenet Ramsey case. "Some speculated" that the final decision might have been Hunter's because under Colorado law, both the grand jury foreman and the district attorney must sign a true bill of indictment for it to take effect.

Steve Thomas condemned Hunter for not indicting the Ramseys and letting a jury decide the truth. Attorney and Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz declared Hunter a "constitutional hero" for taking all the barbs and not bringing a case to trial that he did not feel could be supported. This was just one more example of the huge and seemingly unbridgeable divisions this case has engendered.
____________________________________
John & Patsy Ramsey - "The Death of Innocence" page 352:

the Ramseys expected that they could be indicted--so it was more than investigative.
page 336: "The next morning, Oct 13, we were trying to determine what was going on. We figured we would probably be arrested first and then the DA would make an announcement of the fact... Announcing on television that someone was about to be arrested would generally not be done because it would serve as a warning for the suspect to flee. Surely Hunter wouldn't do that. Every once in a while the door bell would ring and we wondered if the Boulder Police would take us away."

page 357 "As we heard Hunter's words, we squeezed each other's hands"....
"I must report to you that I and my prosecutorial team believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time. Hunter concluded" "I couldn't believe my ears... The battered justice system worked...We had not been indicted!

Afton,

Your post #89 is an excellent post. The powerful Ramsey grand jury was both an investigating and a prosecuting grand jury. I think it solved the crime, children too young to indict were involved, and the only thing left to do without violating the Colorado Children's Code was to gingerly walk away and report nothing -- which it did.

JMO

 

[sissi]

Agree...excellent post Afton! I believe the grand-jury could not indict this ham sandwich because it lacked the meat (sorry). I believe ,as well, they walked away thinking, "why were we here"! There was no more evidence to indict a Ramsey, than there was to indict the guy next door, it just wasn't there. The child, no, IMO, Blue Crab, your ideas are so close to being right, but like many of us, you just don't have the correct suspect. I think it's time to call in "scotland yard", how'bout it Doc?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Hi Afton. Your posts are always excellent Nice to see you here MVGF

 

[aRnd2it]

Three ham sandwiches are in a deli.
One of the sandwiches pushes the potato salad out of the display case onto the floor.
There is no conclusive evidence that any other food was in the display case that night.
There is not enough evidence to tell which of the three sandwiches did the actual pushing of the potato salad.

Which ham sandwich do you indict?

Moral of the story: Only a fool thinks a Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich.

 

[BlueCrab]

Moral of the story: Only a fool thinks a Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich.

Not so Rnd2. For instance:

Patsy Ramsey was complaining about John being away on business most of the time, so she had him cloned. Now there were two John Ramseys -- one real one for business and a clone to keep at home.

But the clone had a defect -- it never stopped cussing and being obscene. (Lin Wood wanted to sue the clone, but Judge Julie Carnes said no, it's only a clone). Patsy couldn't put up with the cussing and obscene gestures any more, so she tricked John the Clone to hike up to the highest peak of the Flatirons with her -- where she pushed him off. John the Clone fell to his death, cussing and screaming obscenities on the way down.

Mark Beckner arrested Patsy and charged her with murder for pushing John the Clone off the the top of the mountain, where he fell to his death. But the DA, Mary keenan, said she couldn't prosecute Patsy because it wasn't the real John Ramsey -- it was a dirty mouthed and obscene John, but only a clone.

So the grand jury took up the case, investigated it, and succeeded in coming up with a criminal charge that allowed it to indict Patsy. What did the GJ charge Patsy with?







Answer: The grand jury indicted Patsy Ramsey for making an obscene clone fall.

JMO

 

[sissi]

I see everyone is baking the fruit cake early and nippin' at the rum?
Myself I believe the aspertame is eating away at my brain, but I am addicted,nothing I can do.
I have a holiday gift suggestion for the killer, "please ,send a little note, just something simple, in your own handwriting, mail it to every forum, show yourself as an 8 yr aniversary token". There is no need to fear being caught, as no one ,including the Ramseys really is pursuing this case, no one that counts, just us "forum dwellers", and who would believe us?"

 

[aRnd2it]

Answer: The grand jury indicted Patsy Ramsey for making an obscene clone fall.

BC, I think I like your story about which of three secretaries to hire better...

 

[BlueCrab]

BC, I think I like your story about which of three secretaries to hire better...

Yeah, T and A wins out every time.

 

[BlueCrab]

BUMP

I'm bumping this thread to see if it will help keep my last post from constantly reappearing. I'm getting tired of seeing it.

 

[luvbeaches]

There is no need to fear being caught, as no one ,including the Ramseys really is pursuing this case, no one that counts, just us "forum dwellers", and who would believe us?"

And isn't it sad that the Ramsey's aren't looking for the killer?

 

[BlueCrab]

And isn't it sad that the Ramsey's aren't looking for the killer?

At least O.J. is thoroughly searching all of the golf courses looking for the killer. The Ramseys aren't bothering to even do that.

JMO

 

[angelnsb]

At least O.J. is thoroughly searching all of the golf courses looking for the killer. The Ramseys aren't bothering to even do that.

JMO

:laugh: :laugh:
OMG, LOL. That is so funny. Good call BC.

 

[BrotherMoon]

:laugh: :laugh:
OMG, LOL. That is so funny. Good call BC.

But Patsy is looking in her dreams for the killa.