Are YOU KIDDING ME?

[englishleigh]

When two of his neighbors were questioned about "didn't they think it odd that he married a 13 year old girl" they BOTH indicated that it was common practice.

I think one needs to factor in that marrying young may have been the norm in AL during that time frame.

UH...no...it was NOT the norm. People looked at people like that as backwards trash or hillbillies, if they married that young back then, and still do. It was only 20 years ago!! I was born and bred in Alabama and still live here, and it has NEVER been common practice here in my lifetime (I was born in 1968) for a 13-year-old child to get married. The legal age for marrying here without parental consent, as far as I know, has always been 16 or 17.

ETA: I am thinking this girl lied about her age to get married, or something. I can't see those parents signing for her to marry this guy, they seemed like normal, loving parents.

 

[pinto]

Larry Shotts, Quientana's father, said he never met Karr. In Alabama at that time, minors 14 and older could marry with a parent's consent.

"I didn't even know they got married," he said. "She had lied about her age to get married.

"We've tried to put this behind us but now this brings back a lot of bad memories," he said. "It was a trying time, a tragic time."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/0818karr.html

 

[doublejack]

Just to clear up some incorrect assumptions in this thread:

Karr was able to marry his first wife (Quientana Ray) because she falsified her age. She was only 13 but claimed she was 14, which allowed them to get married with parental consent in Alabama.

Karr was able to marry his second wife (Lara Knutson) because she was 15 and pregnant. Lara was pregnant with twin girls and miscarried after the marriage. She claims she was manipulated into becoming pregnant by Karr so he could marry her without parental consent.

 

[ragland]

ok, well, why would she have had to go through the divorce then? if she lied about her age would that not have made the marriage a moot point? null and void? i think momma signed.....i know my mom got married at 16 and her mother signed and NEVER admitted this to my grandfather. tuna anyone?

 

[ragland]

doublejack, first of all, thank you


are you saying that the parents (or parent) signed for sure? if so would that not include them in the lie of her age? this is getting rather interesting.

 

[englishleigh]

ok, well, why would she have had to go through the divorce then? if she lied about her age would that not have made the marriage a moot point? null and void? i think momma signed.....i know my mom got married at 16 and her mother signed and NEVER admitted this to my grandfather. tuna anyone?

It's possible...the mom seemed like a softie and easily led, perhaps, and like she could have signed. Maybe that was the source of the tears...feeling guilty about it.

 

[Honibugs]

ok, well, why would she have had to go through the divorce then? if she lied about her age would that not have made the marriage a moot point? null and void? i think momma signed.....i know my mom got married at 16 and her mother signed and NEVER admitted this to my grandfather. tuna anyone?

Yeah, it was a moot point, she got the marriage annulled.

 

[ragland]

well you can get a legal marriage annulled. i would think that there would have been something else done there and talk about PEDO....it didnt register with the courts? i mean mom had to be in on the lie, no charges? i mean obviously the mom hasnt got a brain or she wouldnt let some punk take her daughter like that. i wouldnt be that alarmed by this if she was 16 or 17....we are talking a barely 13 yr old child here. the dad claims that hes so concerned that he contacted authorities, the mom is claiming that he had her totally scared, blah blah blah....yet she would just willingly walk to the courthouse and WITHOUT telling her husband (first line of defense in most homes) signs her daughter away. someone isnt telling us everything i can smell it.

 

[doublejack]

doublejack, first of all, thank you


are you saying that the parents (or parent) signed for sure? if so would that not include them in the lie of her age? this is getting rather interesting.

This is only speculation, but adding up the facts it seems one of Quientana's parents would have to have given her permission to marry Karr. The father claims he's never met Karr, so that would indicate it was likely the mother. The Shott's have said they tried to involve the police to break up the relationship, but authorities wouldn't do anything. I could definitely see Mrs. Shott giving permission under those circumstances, if for no other reason than to keep her daughter within arm's reach.

 

[BBB167893]

"Oh, and where are these letters that are signed S.B.T.C.?"

I'm pretty sure those letters were written after the murder, not before.

 

[ragland]

im completely lost here, maybe i just run a tight ship in my home even being a single mother.....but how do you go to the authorities to find some sort of help against this creep then when they dont help your resolution is "oh baby, we will just sign you over to him" ahhhh, come on....

 

[doublejack]

im completely lost here, maybe i just run a tight ship in my home even being a single mother.....but how do you go to the authorities to find some sort of help against this creep then when they dont help your resolution is "oh baby, we will just sign you over to him" ahhhh, come on....

Well, if the authorites won't help and you are left with two options:

A. The creep moves to another state, taking your daughter away and all contact is lost

or

B. You sign your daughter over in marriage with the hope / expectation that they remain close by so you can watch and monitor the situation - make sure you daughter is all right.

Which would you chose? In that scenario I can definitely see a mother opting for plan B and hoping that it doesn't take long for her daughter to come to her senses (and in this case it took 9 months).

 

[Shelayne]

Yeah, they 'feared for their life', 'listened to fantasies involving little girls', and saw S.B.T.C. at the bottom of his letters, but made no connection??

It sounds pretty bad, though.

Well, the marriage was annulled in 1985, so all of those dots had nothing to connect to in regard to JonBenet, who wasn't even born. And chances are, the parents did not pay attention to the Ramsey case when it was at its earlier "height". I have friends that knew NOTHING about the case except what they heard in the media--that being that the Ramseys killed JonBenet but would never be convicted because they had money.

They could be remembering SBTC because it has become a big thing now, and he either did use those initials, or he used another and they "remember" them differently. Suggestions can influence one's memories. It would be nice if they had one of those letters.

If that was my daughter; however, there would be NO WAY I would allow her to even SEE a man that age. We would MOVE before I allowed that relationship to kindle. Bleeeech!

 

[Shelayne]

"Oh, and where are these letters that are signed S.B.T.C.?"

I'm pretty sure those letters were written after the murder, not before.

I doubt it. Their marriage was annulled in 1985. He was remarried in 1989 to Lara. Why would he still be writing to his ex-child bride?

Perhaps the memories are being influenced by the barrage of news reports about SBTC or perhaps he DID use those intitials. I wonder if there are any of those letters still around. Could be a giant coincidence.

 

[Anngelique]

Well, the marriage was annulled in 1985, so all of those dots had nothing to connect to in regard to JonBenet, who wasn't even born. And chances are, the parents did not pay attention to the Ramsey case when it was at its earlier "height". I have friends that knew NOTHING about the case except what they heard in the media--that being that the Ramseys killed JonBenet but would never be convicted because they had money.

They could be remembering SBTC because it has become a big thing now, and he either did use those initials, or he used another and they "remember" them differently. Suggestions can influence one's memories. It would be nice if they had one of those letters.

If that was my daughter; however, there would be NO WAY I would allow her to even SEE a man that age. We would MOVE before I allowed that relationship to kindle. Bleeeech!

I read about the case and watched it in the news but I did not know about the SBTC before JMK's arrest. I'd never read the ransom note before either. So believe it or not.... there are millions of people in America that also don't have a clue about the JonBenet case except that she was a beauty queen at a young age, the parents were suspects and that the case was not solved.

 

[Shelayne]

I read about the case and watched it in the news but I did not know about the SBTC before JMK's arrest. I'd never read the ransom note before either. So believe it or not.... there are millions of people in America that also don't have a clue about the JonBenet case except that she was a beauty queen at a young age, the parents were suspects and that the case was not solved.

Exactly. They used to tease me about my interest. Now they are asking ME questions.

 

[Amraann]

Well, if the authorites won't help and you are left with two options:

A. The creep moves to another state, taking your daughter away and all contact is lost

or

B. You sign your daughter over in marriage with the hope / expectation that they remain close by so you can watch and monitor the situation - make sure you daughter is all right.

Which would you chose? In that scenario I can definitely see a mother opting for plan B and hoping that it doesn't take long for her daughter to come to her senses (and in this case it took 9 months).

I disagree that those are the only options. FIrst off you do not let your 12 YO be in a situation where they fratanize with 17 YO's secondly if somehow someway some 17 yo begins showing up around your 12 YO you immediatly put a stop to it.
You never let it get to the point of them getting married.

If it had gotten to that point at 13 yo'd as a parent my option is to not let her out of my site. aquire a restraining order against the little dirt bag or barring all of that have uncle Bubba take the little perv out to the woods and have a nice long chat making it clear that if this continues the next trip to the woods he may not return from.

This may be a bit off topic but I am tired of seeing all these weak exuses for parents permitting this type of thing.
Threaten to run away?? I will be damned if my 13 yo is going to threaten me.
I will put bars on the windows and key only dead bolt the doors.
Predators typicially only go for easy pray.

 

[calus_3]

Well, if the authorites won't help and you are left with two options:

A. The creep moves to another state, taking your daughter away and all contact is lost

or

B. You sign your daughter over in marriage with the hope / expectation that they remain close by so you can watch and monitor the situation - make sure you daughter is all right.

Which would you chose? In that scenario I can definitely see a mother opting for plan B and hoping that it doesn't take long for her daughter to come to her senses (and in this case it took 9 months).

Wrong, option C:

You do what I did when an above aged kid was stalking my underaged neice. You find out where he hangs out, pay him a visit and explain things to him. If he is responsive, nothing else is required. If he isn't responsive and bows up on you, you beat the ever loving snot out of him. When he is down on the ground begging for you to stop, you 'hobble' him and warn him that if he ever bothers your neice again, you will hurt him in ways that he never thought possible. Then you help him up, help him dust himself off, and bid him a good day.

It helps if he has a history with the law and wouldn't be inclined to call them on you for doing the latter to him.

I still see him from time to time in town...he is a local punk....he always goes out of his way to be polite and stay out of arm's reach!

I love being linebacker sized.

Cal

 

[MysteryAddict]

If it's true that Karr wrote letters to Quientana and signed
them S B T C----

Why not ask Quientana what those initials meant to her at the time?

That just seems so darn logical.

What's the matter with these interviewers?

 

[ragland]

amraan, lol....you sound JUST LIKE ME!! hey, seriously i wasnt allowed to even date till i was 16, wasnt allowed to think for myself till i moved out of my folks house. and ill be damned if my kids are gonna tell me how it is. sounds to me like these people want us to feel sorry for how Karr tormented their daughter BUT THEY ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN. sounds like aiding and abeiting to me. thats what ive sort of been hinting at all along.....or, could he have bought them at a time when money seemed to play a big role in his life. it certainly caught quintanas eyes "momma a rode in a porche today" big flippity doo. do you not know id hunt down a man that gave my daughter a ride i dont care if its in a pinto! somethings a miss here, i dont believe ANY of these people.