Are YOU KIDDING ME?

[Dr. Doogie]

If he did sign the letters (pre 1996) SBTC and he may have crossed paths with JBR in Atlanta at a pagent in 1996, I may have to reassess my belief that JMK is just a loon, not a murder. It will be interesting to see if any of this can be verified.

 

[Trino]

Karr, at 18, was probably living with his grandparents. They must have had little control over him.

I can understand the parent's frustration. The video of his ex showed her mother crying when she told about finding her daughter missing. The father tried to get the police involved, but they wouldn't do anything - told him to go home and wait. Maybe counseling (22 years ago) wasn't available, and they didn't know where to turn for help.

 

[Amraann]

amraan, lol....you sound JUST LIKE ME!! hey, seriously i wasnt allowed to even date till i was 16, wasnt allowed to think for myself till i moved out of my folks house. and ill be damned if my kids are gonna tell me how it is. sounds to me like these people want us to feel sorry for how Karr tormented their daughter BUT THEY ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN. sounds like aiding and abeiting to me. thats what ive sort of been hinting at all along.....or, could he have bought them at a time when money seemed to play a big role in his life. it certainly caught quintanas eyes "momma a rode in a porche today" big flippity doo. do you not know id hunt down a man that gave my daughter a ride i dont care if its in a pinto! somethings a miss here, i dont believe ANY of these people.

I could not agree more. But it should be noted that some people are very passive.. I don't understand NOT protecting your 12yo but for same maybe that option doesn't even crosstheir mind due to culture or upbringing??
Much like Mark Klass handled his daughters death in a complete differing manner then the R's handled theirs.
I think its comparing apples and oranges. Mark was not the CEO of a fortune 500 company and not married to a former Miss GA.
That is a totally different world and the way people react in those circles is different then how middle class people react.

I could not agree with you more about thinking all of them are lying (Re: those who know Karr)
I could understand how they would have missed the SBTC thing...
Plenty of people do not follow cases (I know its a shock to all of us!)
Or pay attention to the news.

BTW Calus?? WTG!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[doublejack]

I disagree that those are the only options. FIrst off you do not let your 12 YO be in a situation where they fratanize with 17 YO's secondly if somehow someway some 17 yo begins showing up around your 12 YO you immediatly put a stop to it.
You never let it get to the point of them getting married.

If it had gotten to that point at 13 yo'd as a parent my option is to not let her out of my site. aquire a restraining order against the little dirt bag or barring all of that have uncle Bubba take the little perv out to the woods and have a nice long chat making it clear that if this continues the next trip to the woods he may not return from.

This may be a bit off topic but I am tired of seeing all these weak exuses for parents permitting this type of thing.
Threaten to run away?? I will be damned if my 13 yo is going to threaten me.
I will put bars on the windows and key only dead bolt the doors.
Predators typicially only go for easy pray.

Wrong, option C:

You do what I did when an above aged kid was stalking my underaged neice. You find out where he hangs out, pay him a visit and explain things to him. If he is responsive, nothing else is required. If he isn't responsive and bows up on you, you beat the ever loving snot out of him. When he is down on the ground begging for you to stop, you 'hobble' him and warn him that if he ever bothers your neice again, you will hurt him in ways that he never thought possible. Then you help him up, help him dust himself off, and bid him a good day.

It helps if he has a history with the law and wouldn't be inclined to call them on you for doing the latter to him.

I still see him from time to time in town...he is a local punk....he always goes out of his way to be polite and stay out of arm's reach!

I love being linebacker sized.

Cal

Both of these quotes are about the same so I'll only write one reply. First, it's a safe bet that Quientana's parents had no idea she was seing a boy so much older until it was too late. A friend of Quientana introduced her to Karr (I read this in a media report, can't find the link at the moment). The father reportedly never even met Karr. Obviously there's a huge difference between being a good parent and a bad parent, but even good parents don't always know *everything* that happens in their child's life.

Secondly, never underestimate teenage hormones. Quientana Ray made remarks that she found Karr attractive and romantic. She was swept off her feet by him. A teenager in love will do things and make poor decisions that they otherwise wouldn't.... such as hiding a relationship they know will get them into trouble at home.

JMO, but it sure seems that the relationship had already gone way out of control by the time her parents got a clue. At that point, they are dealing with the A or B scenario I proposed. Option C had evaporated long ago.

We could discuss ways this type of situation can be avoided until our fingers are numb, but the reality is it happens. Good kids sometimes get themselves into trouble when their parent's never could have predicted it (NH case), and good parents sometimes make mistakes. This seems like either or both of those apply here. Whatever the case, I totally agree that this was an awful situation that never should have been allowed to happen... but it did. And then Karr repeated the scenario a few years later.

 

[WhiteWolf]

It doesn't seem odd to me that Karr might still be using the SBTC sign off for a time after his comment in the yearbook. He was only 19 when he married QR so maybe he thought it made him appear cool.

 

[ragland]

i dunno, i got a 14 yr old son, and two girls 12 and 7 and they are all still highly terrified of even thinking of doing stupid stuff like that. but then again i dont let my kids go places that im not fully aware of whats going on or am there myself. theres not enough time on this earth to spend with your kids, you have to REALLY force time with them if you want to enjoy them completely. i still find it laughable that a grown man would want to battle me over my daugther, i dont need the cops!

 

[Details]

As a parent, it wouldn't matter to me how old Karr was - my 13 year old daughter seriously dating anyone is an issue, and I'm going to find out who, and put a hard stop to it.

 

[Trino]

Parents, no matter how good they are at parenting, can't always know what goes on in their child's life. My parents went to their graves never knowing my brother was at Kent State the day of the shootings.

My 30 year old (master's degree) son, when we talked about his h.s. years said to me, "Mom, didn't you think I went to an awful lot of movies?" He was always an excellent student in h.s., conservatively dressed, well-mannered.

My husband and I were also completely involved with our now 22 year old (college grad) son. We were at every lower grade practice, every school and sporting event, every college activity/sport, yet he got arrested in a bar fight his second year in college. We don't drink, never had him around alcohol, etc. We couldn't imagine!!!

So, all I'm saying from my own life experience is that you just do the best you can. After that, you have to trust that you've raised your child right.

 

[Floh]

I'm not in a position to judge parents who allow their daughters (and sons) to do whatever at 13 (altho i'm of course appalled).

what i'm most interested in is him apparenty signing off letters with the S.B.T.C. letters.

if the are not making it up and he did use those letters, then just what a big coincidence they were used on the ransom note.

. . . or was it? :waitasec:

 

[ragland]

my point was, floh, that if these parents are so lame brained that they just watched as their 13 yr old daughter married this guy (oh and consented) that they may be dumb enough to mistake SWAK for SBTC. it wouldnt be a far stretch for me to believe they believed that its the same thing.

 

[Floh]

my point was, floh, that if these parents are so lame brained that they just watched as their 13 yr old daughter married this guy (oh and consented) that they may be dumb enough to mistake SWAK for SBTC. it wouldnt be a far stretch for me to believe they believed that its the same thing.

Faire enough. but if he did sign them S.B.T.C., then . . . what? :bang:

one would have to start considering what appears to be the impossible!

 

[ragland]

well thats a whole other story then, but i do not believe they have letters from this man.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I watched the video...the parents seem like lovely people. Quintana is very soft-spoken and shy. The mother is still very upset about her daughter having been with JMK...you're right that she might not hold up on the stand and it does sound as though they no longer have the letters. That's a shame b/c it is very interesting about the SBTC thing.

"Lovely" people who allowed their 12/13 year old daughter to hang out with a grown man who later married her. I'm suspicious of the whole thing.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

If I remember correctly, this morning the mother said it was easier to give permission and let her daughter marry him than to have her run away and do it and risk never seeing her again or have contact with her so she could moniter where she was.


This is just memory; correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, they could have just had him arrested. Or threatened him with a shotgun.

 

[ragland]

thats my song youre singing billy, i think theres more to their story that they dont want out in the public. quintana looks VERY familiar to me and i havent been able to place why for the last couple of days. hamilton is i guess an hour or so from me so i highly doubt ive ran into her before but it is bothering me like crazy. she has VERY dishonest eyes in my opinion.

 

[julianne]

thats my song youre singing billy, i think theres more to their story that they dont want out in the public. quintana looks VERY familiar to me and i havent been able to place why for the last couple of days. hamilton is i guess an hour or so from me so i highly doubt ive ran into her before but it is bothering me like crazy. she has VERY dishonest eyes in my opinion.

Oh, come on! Please give me a description of what "dishonest" eyes should look like, and then describe "honest" eyes should look like.

Why are we trying to find as much fault with these people as possible? OK, so the parents allowed their daughter to marry at a very young age---I absolutely do not agree with that one bit, but why is that the issue?

Edited to add: The ex-wife seems completely normal to me. She seems shy, definately soft spoken, and certainly doesn't seem to be revelling in this attention.

 

[Helena U]

I still say that this is all some huge psychology experiment, to see just how easy it is to change people's perception of things, and how easily we are swayed (even to the point of hallucination), by the media.

I couldn't agree more. Other than the eyeliner, JMK looks pretty average to me. I see stranger looking guys every day at the mall, the grocery store, and even in my own neighborhood. He acts bizarre, but to be honest, he looks like someone I would run into at a church function.

I think this is the same phenomenon that makes certain actors and actresses seem super hot and desirable, despite the fact that they may have average looks, at best.

 

[lizzybeth]

I wondered too when the mother said they remembered letters signed SBTC why the interviewer didn't ask what those letters meant. Their daughter had to have known what he meant by the initials. If you rec'd a letter from someone, like a boyfriend, and they put some letters at the end and you didn't know what they meant wouldn't you ask?

I'm really getting tired of the media. It seems they are enjoying dragging this out too much. Giving snippets and then nothing until the next time they decide to report something. Who knows maybe they did ask and they're just saving it for another show.

 

[lizzybeth]

Oh, come on! Please give me a description of what "dishonest" eyes should look like, and then describe "honest" eyes should look like.

Why are we trying to find as much fault with these people as possible? OK, so the parents allowed their daughter to marry at a very young age---I absolutely do not agree with that one bit, but why is that the issue?

Edited to add: The ex-wife seems completely normal to me. She seems shy, definately soft spoken, and certainly doesn't seem to be revelling in this attention.

I agree. She definitely seemed shy and probably embarrassed. Who wouldn't be? I mean number one that you married at such a young age and then to find out that your ex could possibly be a murderer and is a pedophile.

 

[tri2005]

i have asked this before and dont think i got a response, but what sane mother and father ALLOWS their daughter to marry at 13??

southerners
tri