Arizona girl, 2, left in car by father on 109-degree day and is found dead #2

[Weki]

....He deliberately and repeatedly used the car as a babysitter/playpen for multiple children for hours. In Arizona. With full knowledge that the car automatically shut off at 30min.

I know - the fact remains that the state will be required to prove he intended to kill the child. That he had the state of mind to kill. Not that he was a bad father. Not that he was negligent. But he did the above purposely to kill the child. Maybe he did but the state has to PROVE it beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s a high burden for murder.

JMO

 

[Bounceycat]

I know - the fact remains that the state will be required to prove he intended to kill the child. That he had the state of mind to kill. Not that he was a bad father. Not that he was negligent. But he did the above purposely to kill the child. Maybe he did but the state has to PROVE it beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s a high burden for murder.

JMO

13-1105 - First degree murder; classification

13-1105. First degree murder; classification

A. A person commits first degree murder if:

1. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.

---
Bolding is mine, for emphasis. I don't think they'll have trouble at all showing he knew his actions could result in death. So even if there is not active intent, there is knowledge.

 

[mickey2942]

I think what will nail this, is the text from the mother, "I told you to stop leaving them in the car.".

That is the problem here for CS. I see him taking a plea at some point in time.

 

[Angelcat13]

13-1105 - First degree murder; classification

13-1105. First degree murder; classification

A. A person commits first degree murder if:

1. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person, including an unborn child, with premeditation or, as a result of causing the death of another person with premeditation, causes the death of an unborn child.

---
Bolding is mine, for emphasis. I don't think they'll have trouble at all showing he knew his actions could result in death. So even if there is not active intent, there is knowledge.

Like you, I hope and pray that a jury would find him guilty. But, playing Devil’s Advocate and admittedly because I don’t know, what could be the legal interpretation for 1st degree murder of “knowing…WILL cause death” vs knowing…MAY cause death?

 

[Charlot123]

I know that sociopaths (ASPD) can often be very charming, which is how they get away with their manipulation, but I see NOTHING remotely charming or attractive in that a-hole and Dr Mom is very good looking. We know she's dysfunctional but, man, that guy is such an unattractive loser. Maybe her father was an abusive alcoholic enabled by her mother. Something is sure wrong with her.

I am not quite sure that he has antisocial personality disorder. ASPD is the only one diagnosed before 18 years of age. These are kids who, more often than not, get in groups and behave against the norms of the society. Get in a group and steal, get a neighbor's car for a joyride, lie, be truant, drink and use drugs, get in fights, rebel. Of interest, most of these traits burn out by mid-30es, and also of interest, most successful treatment is via group settings. Put such a kid into wrestling where the coach would say, "one more time, and I kick your behind out", and half of the behavior is gone. Army setting is curative, too. People with ASPD do grow, they are just a headache for the society in the process.

But I don't see any group in the background for CS. He hasn't matured at all. He is sitting days on end at home, alone, playing his PS. Stealing a can of beer and drinking it in a public toilet could indicate antisocial traits in a 14-year old. In someone close to forty, I don't know even know what it is. An alcoholic with catastrophic hygienic habits and poor sense of smell, maybe?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

know - the fact remains that the state will be required to prove he intended to kill the child.

. Intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person,

Earlier in the thread, I linked the information for Arizona. First degree murder can also mean a child dies due to child abuse, without having to prove intent, IMO. (See section 2.)

13-1105 - First degree murder; classification

It sure doesn't feel like this case will go to trial, though.

 

[BrownRice]

Like you, I hope and pray that a jury would find him guilty. But, playing Devil’s Advocate and admittedly because I don’t know, what could be the legal interpretation for 1st degree murder of “knowing…WILL cause death” vs knowing…MAY cause death?

Any adult KNOWS that leaving a child in a car for an extended period of time in 109 degree weather WILL KILL THE CHILD. He didn’t need to say to himself “I’m going to kill her” in order to be charged with murder.

My understanding would be his actions were so reckless and negligent because any reasonable person would know this would lead to her death.

I certainly hope ANY plea arrangement will result in prison time.

 

[Weki]

Earlier in the thread, I linked the information for Arizona. First degree murder can also mean a child dies due to child abuse, without having to prove intent, IMO. (See section 2.)

13-1105 - First degree murder; classification

It sure doesn't feel like this case will go to trial, though.

IANAL so take everything I say with a grain of salt. But your interpretation sounds to me like felony murder. I’m sure there’s a felony murder charge and they could’ve just charged that instead. I would be really surprised if a murder 1 charge doesn’t require the state to prove intent. That is basic law. Intent, malice and forethought are the basic elements the state has to prove in every murder charge.

I would be really curious as to the jury instructions for the murder charge in this case.

JMO

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I am not quite sure that he has antisocial personality disorder. ASPD is the only one diagnosed before 18 years of age. These are kids who, more often than not, get in groups and behave against the norms of the society. Get in a group and steal, get a neighbor's car for a joyride, lie, be truant, drink and use drugs, get in fights, rebel. Of interest, most of these traits burn out by mid-30es, and also of interest, most successful treatment is via group settings. Put such a kid into wrestling where the coach would say, "one more time, and I kick your behind out", and half of the behavior is gone. Army setting is curative, too. People with ASPD do grow, they are just a headache for the society in the process.

But I don't see any group in the background for CS. He hasn't matured at all. He is sitting days on end at home, alone, playing his PS. Stealing a can of beer and drinking it in a public toilet could indicate antisocial traits in a 14-year old. In someone close to forty, I don't know even know what it is. An alcoholic with catastrophic hygienic habits and poor sense of smell, maybe?

And even the games he reportedly play are more typical for a 14 year old. Not some elaborate fantasy games played in groups with other adults in online forums. Mario Cart vs. some sort of quest game. But for ES and her money he's probably be living in his parent's basement. Prior work was reported by his 16 year old to be a call center, he left her in car in parking lot there per her interview in prior thread. Would hazard a guess both adults come from families with alcohol/addiction/untreated mental illness/dysfunctional backgrounds. JMOOO.

 

[Bounceycat]

IANAL so take everything I say with a grain of salt. But your interpretation sounds to me like felony murder. I’m sure there’s a felony murder charge and they could’ve just charged that instead. I would be really surprised if a murder 1 charge doesn’t require the state to prove intent. That is basic law. Intent, malice and forethought are the basic elements the state has to prove in every murder charge.

I would be really curious as to the jury instructions for the murder charge in this case.

JMO

Felony murder isn't a separate charge in AZ - it falls under the first degree murder charge.

 

[Weki]

Felony murder isn't a separate charge in AZ - it falls under the first degree murder charge.

OK if this is true then I don’t expect they will have a problem getting a conviction for felony murder.

Why do ppl think this won’t go to trial?

JMO

 

[MsMarple]

OK if this is true then I don’t expect they will have a problem getting a conviction for felony murder.

Why do ppl think this won’t go to trial?

JMO

There have been a number of insightful opinions posted in the two threads but IMO some important ones (in no particular order) are:

1. The DA often wants to clear the case and so will offer a deal to a lesser charge, especially if the lower charge will still mean enough prison time to bring justice to the victim.

2. The DA will offer a deal if they believe that the accused is guilty but there may not be enough compelling evidence to sway a jury. A lot will depend on things like whether the judge will allow the body cam footage etc..

3. In this particular case we’re seeing the judge going very easy on the accused in terms of letting him go home and be around his surviving children (supervised) despite CS having an alcohol problem, previous abuse by car and a verified attempt to tamper with the children’s testimony.

If this judge goes easy will other judges follow suit? The DA may not want to take a chance. A sympathetic judge has the power to throw out certain evidence and could very well skew the trial.

This is just all of us trying to analyze what could happen. There’s always the possibility that the DA feels strongly enough to take the case to trial. But right now it seems like this case will go the same way as many other cases we’ve seen here.
MOO and I’m sure others will have even more answers for you.

 

[Weki]

Ok thanks - I have a hard time seeing this Peter Pan accepting criminal culpability for this. Based on how his wife is acting and getting the children to lie to police and the tendencies of immature/enmeshed people, it’s hard to imagine real remorse and self-accountability. We’ll see. JMO

 

[Angelcat13]

Any adult KNOWS that leaving a child in a car for an extended period of time in 109 degree weather WILL KILL THE CHILD. He didn’t need to say to himself “I’m going to kill her” in order to be charged with murder.

My understanding would be his actions were so reckless and negligent because any reasonable person would know this would lead to her death.

I certainly hope ANY plea arrangement will result in prison time.

I agree 100% and I just pray that they don’t let him plea to some ridiculously lower charge that results in a slap on the wrist. I wish they would prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.

The point of my post was that I don’t like the vagueness of the wording of the law and I fear that it is vague enough that the interpretation could be twisted by a defense attorney and used to get CS out of more significant consequences.

 

[Bounceycat]

The point of my post was that I don’t like the vagueness of the wording of the law and I fear that it is vague enough that the interpretation could be twisted by a defense attorney and used to get CS out of more significant consequences.

Don't worry, another section of the first degree murder statute would potentially apply to him too:

2. Acting either alone or with one or more other persons the person commits or attempts to commit sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, molestation of a child under section 13-1410, terrorism under section 13-2308.01, marijuana offenses under section 13-3405, subsection A, paragraph 4, dangerous drug offenses under section 13-3407, subsection A, paragraphs 4 and 7, narcotics offenses under section 13-3408, subsection A, paragraph 7 that equal or exceed the statutory threshold amount for each offense or combination of offenses, involving or using minors in drug offenses under section 13-3409, drive by shooting under section 13-1209, kidnapping under section 13-1304, burglary under section 13-1506, 13-1507 or 13-1508, arson under section 13-1703 or 13-1704, robbery under section 13-1902, 13-1903 or 13-1904, escape under section 13-2503 or 13-2504, child abuse under section 13-3623, subsection A, paragraph 1 or unlawful flight from a pursuing law enforcement vehicle under section 28-622.01 and, in the course of and in furtherance of the offense or immediate flight from the offense, the person or another person causes the death of any person.

BBM to highlight relevant portions

 

[Normancita]

More INFURIATING footage can be found here:

*NOTE: He insists on showering before going to the hospital but LE won’t let him.

*LE have to remind him that his dogs have been left outside in 109 heat and ask Scholtes if he should bring them in before leaving for the hospital

 

[charminglane]

This is a very dangerous man.

 

[MsMarple]

More INFURIATING footage can be found here:

*NOTE: He insists on showering before going to the hospital but LE won’t let him.

*LE have to remind him that his dogs have been left outside in 109 heat and ask Scholtes if he should bring them in before leaving for the hospital

Every time I hear “It was a big mistake” I feel like screaming. No, the real “mistake” was not stopping this dangerous practice a long time ago!
MOO and boy am I angry!

 

[LittleSeaTree]

Do we know where the older girls were during all of this footage? Maybe the neighbors who had had them earlier took them to their home?

 

[Arkay]

More INFURIATING footage can be found here:

*NOTE: He insists on showering before going to the hospital but LE won’t let him.

*LE have to remind him that his dogs have been left outside in 109 heat and ask Scholtes if he should bring them in before leaving for the hospital

Thank you, @Normancita

Until now I haven’t watched any video footage of this. Too difficult.

I did watch this and for some reason, watching him get himself a cup of ice water infuriated me.

He baked his baby to death. But got himself plenty of ice water.

The cognitive dissonance kills me.

That and his idiotic demands to take a shower.

JMO