Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Karmady]

(color emphasis by me to illustrate a point).


<modsnip>

I offered some of these topics of evidence to think about because I noticed on this thread that there was a change in the wind. I noticed some of the posters have started to sympathize with JA.

There IS overwhelming evidence that she was THERE. There is NOT overwhelming evidence that SHE murdered TA. (There simply IS NOT OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE that she murdered him). If there was, all her lies wouldn't have mattered.

<modsnip>

She claims there were intruders, did they take the photos?

She has openly admitted to being a liar. I watched the video.

She admits to Juan that she lies right on down the line.

The point I'm trying to make here just for the sake of a good, open discussion is that if she's LYING about everything then, couldn't she also be LYING about killing him?

Or, are her lies only considered lies whey they can be used to support whatever verdict you are trying to get across?

Here's an example: A lie that says TA was a pedophile.

Doesn't fit into the character assassination of JA so THIS? This is a lie.

Example #2: A lie that JA murdered TA.

THIS? This would mean she's guilty so let's accept this lie as a fact.


Example 3# Two intruders murdered TA.

Maybe? Maybe there were two intruders. Maybe they took the photos. MAYBE, maybe, maybe, maybe.

It's a big fat MAYBE because in the big wide world of LYING and testimony you are currently unable to weed out which lies are TRUE and which lies are well, LIES.


Maybe, given the propensity for turning men into sensless sexually depraved hounds, JA had also been messing with the brains of the roommates?

All of these things haven't been investigated to the satisfaction of my curiosity. Something's missing here.

I have to agree with you, the selective belief of the lies of a lying liar who lies is problematic

 

[shelley921]

I was taking a 3 mile hike around a local lake 2 weeks ago with my friend and we saw women prisoners cutting/clearing brush. They were being supervised by a male firefighter from CalFire. I'm in San Diego and we have terrible wildfires every fall. We stopped to talk to the CalFire guy and he said these women are all in for non-violent offense--mostly drugs. And the work is voluntary and many of them are helped by doing this sort of physical work and go on to make better choices in life.

 

[Cate49]

Crz4mm2: prisons are run for profit. No other nation in history has ever had so many of it's citizens incarcerated. The have them work for .25/hr and they never call in sick or are late or have family issues. Their is no need for workers comp. Or strikes or walk outs. If you refuse work you Re placed in solitery confinement. This is the new human trafficking of our time. I'd encourage everyone to read on this subject and make their own opinion. It goes way beyond people paying there way. This is off topic for this thread so I will shut up.

 

[Cate49]

I didn't mean to have a corrective tone at all, Cate. So I apologize if it sounded that way. I just presumed you aren't local and don't know that it's the Sheriff that's famous/infamous for Maricopa County jail policy and that the Warden is just following orders -- although I presume he's like minded. Tent city must be truly brutal in August and I've seen chain gangs working the entrance ramps to the freeway many times. Both women and men. But I'm not sure that it's the tent city folks on the chain gangs. I think tent city is mostly for really short term sentences and that a lot of them can leave in the daytime for work. Could be wrong about that though. The person I know who was there was there for DUI and did get to go to work and was not on a chain gang.

No problem and thanks for your post it is kind.

 

[Cate49]

Lots of posts have mentioned that Jodi had low self esteem. Unless I am confused about the definition of low self-esteem I don't think Jodi is suffering in that department. She appears to me to have inflated self love. Do narcissists have low self-esteem?

 

[shelley921]

Lots of posts have mentioned that Jodi had low self esteem. Unless I am confused about the definition of low self-esteem I don't think Jodi is suffering in that department. She appears to me to have inflated self love. Do narcissists have low self-esteem?

good question - do narcissists have low self esteem?


I think Jodi has had low self esteem from way before she met Travis. I see her as an empty shell of a person with no GENUINE SELF RESPECT. how does a woman feel lovable or adequate if she gets to age 27 and she has a string of broken relationships behind her, is a h.s. dropout, is not able to support herself, has strained relations with family & has no close women friends-?
can you feel GOOD about yourself if that is YOU? I couldn't.

the only thing she felt she had to offer was her sexuality. how does THAT make you feel good about yourself? i just read an article about jealousy and the writer said underneath jealousy is the feeling of being inadequate & unlovable. and we know jodi was jealous-!

when Travis tells jodi to stay away, she keeps coming around. Most normal people who like themsleves have too much respect for themselves to keep going back where they are not wanted or welcome...over & over & over again! Normal people with good self esteem/respect do not invade other's privacy, break into other's homes, hack into cell phones, email, steal journals, slash tires, send threatening letters etc.

so to me she does not have GENUINE self respect/esteem.

 

[Cate49]

Thanks for helping me understand self-esteem. She appears to be very vain in many ways. Her need to be in makeup even when being booked, she clearly was comfortable in taking very candid photos. The early morning wake ups are most likely her having to get makeup and clothing perfect. I think she also loves the spot light and she has received tons of attention. I worry about murder cases when a person is recognized so much in media. Some people will murder just to bring attention to themselves.

 

[ISeeSociopaths]

Lots of posts have mentioned that Jodi had low self esteem. Unless I am confused about the definition of low self-esteem I don't think Jodi is suffering in that department. She appears to me to have inflated self love. Do narcissists have low self-esteem?

people who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder come across as having a grandiose sense of self- over the top, braggarts, normal societal rules don't apply to them, they tend to have tantrums like two year olds-when they don't get their way, or when they are corrected- they are extremely immature-they seem off...this is a behavior they learned to protect themselves with, to cover up their low/no self esteem...deep down they do feel worthless. Usually this is due to neglect in early childhood....where they were never given positive feedback as to their development- mostly neglected or criticized as a young child. Hence never developed a positve sence of self worth.

Wolf In Sheeps Clothing
In my opinion, Jodi Arias is much worse, she is a sociopath, someone who preys on others to fulfill their needs- they have no concept of boundaries because what serves their needs is what they work towards. They will not give up- Some have said it is game to them. And They have no conscience. No Guilt. Don't know right from wrong. Don't care. They are like a wolf stalking an innocent bunny.

some think she combines many personality disorders- narcissistic, sociopathic, psychopathic(when she leaped into the taking of a life) the list is 30-40 traits-all considered anti-social behavior-that maybe, which does not fit into what normal society deems acceptable/healthy-

there is a personality disorder called Malignant Narcissism. Where the grandiosity exhibits a thrill when they cause pain to others.But I think that is simply a Sociopath.
This is my expert opinion(joking), not being a PHD or anything...just PHD of Life.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

people who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder come across as having a grandiose sense of self- over the top, braggarts, normal societal rules don't apply to them, they tend to have tantrums like two year olds-when they don't get their way, or when they are corrected- they are extremely immature-they seem off...this is a behavior they learned to protect themselves with, to cover up their low/no self esteem...deep down they do feel worthless. Usually this is due to neglect in early childhood....where they were never given positive feedback as to their development- mostly neglected or criticized as a young child. Hence never developed a positve sence of self worth.

Wolf In Sheeps Clothing
In my opinion, Jodi Arias is much worse, she is a sociopath, someone who preys on others to fulfill their needs- they have no concept of boundaries because what serves their needs is what they work towards. They will not give up- Some have said it is game to them. And They have no conscience. No Guilt. Don't know right from wrong. Don't care. They are like a wolf stalking an innocent bunny.

some think she combines many personality disorders- narcissistic, sociopathic, psychopathic(when she leaped into the taking of a life) the list is 30-40 traits-all considered anti-social behavior-that maybe, which does not fit into what normal society deems acceptable/healthy-

there is a personality disorder called Malignant Narcissism. Where the grandiosity exhibits a thrill when they cause pain to others. But I think that is simply a Sociopath.
This is my expert opinion(joking), not being a PHD or anything...just PHD of Life.

Regarding what I bolded---this has recently been debunked by research but I don't have the link handy. A recent study has found that Narcissists actually and truly believe they are superior. This counters the old theory that the Narcissist is suffering from low self esteem.
By the way, I believer firmly that JA is a BPD, Cluster B, Axis II with comorbidity.
Just my :twocents:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Crz4mm2: prisons are run for profit. No other nation in history has ever had so many of it's citizens incarcerated. The have them work for .25/hr and they never call in sick or are late or have family issues. Their is no need for workers comp. Or strikes or walk outs. If you refuse work you Re placed in solitery confinement. This is the new human trafficking of our time. I'd encourage everyone to read on this subject and make their own opinion. It goes way beyond people paying there way. This is off topic for this thread so I will shut up.

Privately owned prisons are popping up everywhere but I don't think the average citizen is aware of them. What is alarming is this: what is the incentive to ever release a prisoner out of a private prison when they make money off of every person they keep in their cells? Why not trump up every action into a bad deed to add more prison time to each inmate as frequently as you'd like? I'm afraid that offenders will never leave...

A true "Hotel California" of sorts.........you can never leave.....:what:

 

[lil_buddy]

This is TOTAL speculation and I wouldn't be too surprised if I'm wrong, but...

I don't think JA was a sex worker. She was good looking enough to be a high paid hooker or even do *advertiser censored*. She probably could have made way more $ than TA was making if she followed that path.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I have to agree with you, the selective belief of the lies of a lying liar who lies is problematic

Only the nose knows what the nose knows.:floorlaugh:

 

[Cate49]

Privately owned prisons are popping up everywhere but I don't think the average citizen is aware of them. What is alarming is this: what is the incentive to ever release a prisoner out of a private prison when they make money off of every person they keep in their cells? Why not trump up every action into a bad deed to add more prison time to each inmate as frequently as you'd like? I'm afraid that offenders will never leave...

A true "Hotel California" of sorts.........you can never leave.....:what:

It is true that they give 5 years to a small amounts of drugs on the person and sentence them for five years. Sentencing is inflated in order to keep the cheap labour. People can purchase shares in the prisons they have conventions to recruit investors. The US has the highest number of it's citizens incarcerated than any other country? Very disturbing!

 

[pip]

Armchair analysis: Cold blooded, vicious, rejected, jealous, psychopathic killer. No fear of blood, guts and gore. A killer that could carry out what she did is without any hesitation, qualms or jitters about heinous butchering. She is is one sick killer. It was not like a quivering hand and one gunshot in a moment of anger which made her sick and regretful to think about what she had done. Nope, she is an entirely different animal.

 

[Cate49]

Does anyone know if the male FRIEND that sits through trial still attending? They communicated by letters and maybe visits (but not certain of visits). He believes the lies and am curious if he bolted since more information has come to light. He was on one of the talking head shows

 

[Gecko100]

Is it not possible that two people with narcissistic wounding would recognise each other and exploit it?

 

[Cate49]

This is TOTAL speculation and I wouldn't be too surprised if I'm wrong, but...

I don't think JA was a sex worker. She was good looking enough to be a high paid hooker or even do *advertiser censored*. She probably could have made way more $ than TA was making if she followed that path.

What would make you think she is a sex worker?

 

[deedee21]

Armchair analysis: Cold blooded, vicious, rejected, jealous, psychopathic killer. No fear of blood, guts and gore. A killer that could carry out what she did is without any hesitation, qualms or jitters about heinous butchering. She is is one sick killer. It was not like a quivering hand and one gunshot in a moment of anger which made her sick and regretful to think about what she had done. Nope, she is an entirely different animal.

I agree. Its also something that would be recognized sooner by some if the crime was commited by a man. Because she is a woman, shes going for self defense. Its BS.

 

[SMK]

What would make you think she is a sex worker?

I had brought up that someone on another site had thought so.

But lil_buddy makes a good point, that if she had been, she would have had a lot more money than she did.

This brings me to what I was wondering about though, because although it would not make any difference with this trial, it makes a difference in how I view her.

I become confused regarding what Jodi actually was.

Was she A: A woman in love with Travis (albeit a narcissistic and psychopathic love) who admired him and wanted to fuse with him and his life, and then killed him in revenge when he rejected her?

Or B: Some kind of criminally minded individual who if not an actual prostitute was prostitute-like: Really just a petty criminal using sex as a way to get in on Travis' riches? And when the plan was not working, took a sort of criminal revenge the way drug dealers or pimps do?

Either way , she deserves the maximum punishment. But to me, it becomes a much less interesting story if it was B. If A, Travis fell into the hands of a psychopathic lover. If B, he simply got mixed up with some skanky criminal.

 

[ISeeSociopaths]

Armchair analysis: Cold blooded, vicious, rejected, jealous, psychopathic killer. No fear of blood, guts and gore. A killer that could carry out what she did is without any hesitation, qualms or jitters about heinous butchering. She is is one sick killer. It was not like a quivering hand and one gunshot in a moment of anger which made her sick and regretful to think about what she had done. Nope, she is an entirely different animal.

Absolutely Agree! She is a monster like we have not seen. If this was her first murder, if not caught, it would not have been her last. ANother reason why watching/studying her is so fascinating. SHe wears so many masks, and we get to see them all. Well Travis saw it all actually. (Sorry, Travis)