Armchair Psych Profile and JH's Background

[Liz]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ore-massacre/2012/07/27/gJQAsTwHEX_story.html

I dunno'.

Thanks for posting the link.

re:

Campus police, whose officers participate in the Behavioral Evaluation and Threat Assessment team, have said they had no contact with Holmes. Other team members reached in recent days declined to discuss Holmes.

I took that as stating that the campus police, as part of the BETA team, had not had any contact whatsoever with JH. Stated after that, is that the other members of the BETA team were not talking.

IF the campus police (CU employees, right?) are permitted to state they'd had no contact with JH, then why couldn't the other members state that they'd had nothing brought to their attention with JH (unless they had)? That would've brought a little sunlight to the issue instead of making themselves and the university look as though they have something to hide?

Something just doesn't seem right to me. JMO

 

[songline]

Thanks for posting the link.

re:

I took that as stating that the campus police, as part of the BETA team, had not had any contact whatsoever with JH. Stated after that, is that the other members of the BETA team were not talking.

IF the campus police (CU employees, right?) are permitted to state they'd had no contact with JH, then why couldn't the other members state that they'd had nothing brought to their attention with JH (unless they had)? That would've brought a little sunlight to the issue instead of making themselves and the university look as though they have something to hide?

Something just doesn't seem right to me. JMO

MAYBE THEY NEED TO BE VERY CAUTIOUSE...


did you see this?

Report: Doctor treating Aurora shooting suspect had medical reprimand

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...a-shooting-suspect-had-medical-reprimand?lite


I think with this looming over their heads they may need to be mum....


And just because this Dr. had given out meds without
crossing all her T's and dotting all her I's

DOES not mean that anyone could have forecasted what happened.
NO DOCTOR can foresee that an MI patient will or will not turn violent.
Especially if their behavior is never violent in the school.

One prostitute however did say that she had sex with him twice.
One time he was sweet and months later he was abusive.
Obviously that is a big change.

And the school did not see a big change?
It is puzzling... but they could not have predicted this outcome.

 

[Liz]

What is BETA?
Behavioral Evaluation and Threat Assessment Team


http://www.ucdenver.edu/life/services/BETA/Pages/default.aspx

If they reported to BETA
SCHOOL KNEW SOMETHING...
but there is no way they can ever know which MI person can turn violent.

BBM

Point well taken, songline!

But, but, but .... as to the medical health professionals, the psychiatrists that were his professors and the one that was treating him, 'if' they'd been paying attention and observed that young man begin to spiral downward (which I'm not claiming, as we don't have any way of knowing).

But his course work must've been suffering in the last couple or few months, due to him being so preoccupied with all those purchases online and in brick and mortar stores, and possible trips to gun ranges for shooting practice. Surely it seems someone would've noticed some physical changes with him. I mean just look at this slide show of pics and say this even looks like the same guy:

https://twitter.com/#!/search/james holmes/slideshow/photos?url=http://lockerz.com/s/229502036

I wonder if he pulled out his eyelashes in recent months (I listened to one of the 'talking head' psychiatrists and he said that was a possible sign of psychosis ... any physical changes, as was shaving eyebrows - which someone on WS posted they thought JH shaved his eyebrows.) Look at those eyes. Did any of his professors notice his eyes change from normal looking to bulging and becoming wide-eyed and the size of quarters? What about his red/orange dyed hair? Not certain but I think I heard he dyed it in May? I'm not saying just one of these things by itself would draw the attention of a professor or psychiatrist but when you start compiling, it seems very odd. At least to me. Surely JH didn't appear this way when he was accepted to the university and gifted with that hard to come by NIH grant. And didn't we hear his grades were slipping?


It seems to me (imo) that they should've noticed 'something'! Seems like some things were really amiss with him. I'm not trying to blame them, by any means. Just saying IF they might've paid more attention to JH, his maniacal rampage 'might' have been prevented. Not trying to blame. Trying to figure out a way to get people that are in a crisis situation steered in a direction that might prevent some other tragedies in the future.

 

[songline]

BBM

Point well taken, songline!

But, but, but .... as to the medical health professionals, the psychiatrists that were his professors and the one that was treating him, 'if' they'd been paying attention and observed that young man begin to spiral downward (which I'm not claiming, as we don't have any way of knowing).

But his course work must've been suffering in the last couple or few months, due to him being so preoccupied with all those purchases online and in brick and mortar stores, and possible trips to gun ranges for shooting practice. Surely it seems someone would've noticed some physical changes with him. I mean just look at this slide show of pics and say this even looks like the same guy:

https://twitter.com/#!/search/james holmes/slideshow/photos?url=http://lockerz.com/s/229502036

I wonder if he pulled out his eyelashes in recent months (I listened to one of the 'talking head' psychiatrists and he said that was a possible sign of psychosis ... any physical changes, as was shaving eyebrows - which someone on WS posted they thought JH shaved his eyebrows.) Look at those eyes. Did any of his professors notice his eyes change from normal looking to bulging and becoming wide-eyed and the size of quarters? What about his red/orange dyed hair? Not certain but I think I heard he dyed it in May? I'm not saying just one of these things by itself would draw the attention of a professor or psychiatrist but when you start compiling, it seems very odd. At least to me. Surely JH didn't appear this way when he was accepted to the university and gifted with that hard to come by NIH grant. And didn't we hear his grades were slipping?


It seems to me (imo) that they should've noticed 'something'! Seems like some things were really amiss with him. I'm not trying to blame them, by any means. Just saying IF they might've paid more attention to JH, his maniacal rampage 'might' have been prevented. Not trying to blame. Trying to figure out a way to get people that are in a crisis situation steered in a direction that might prevent some other tragedies in the future.

I think you are right, if you catch it fast you can medicate and still end up with a civil human being.
They are teaching the stuff - they should know how to see it faster. ALSO many who study Psychology
are not balanced, they do know that too.
That is probably why many say they never saw him or had encounters with him
The guy went to school every day :waitasec: I don't think he was not visible.

 

[Liz]

I was composing my post Songline while you posted your reply along the same lines.

I'm not sure we should take the word(s) of prostitutes, even though I can't think what motive they'd have to come out and lie. I had not read the about JH being kind one time and abusive the other to the prostitute he'd allegedly called upon twice. Maybe I missed that part.

Regarding the psychiatrist, Dr. Fenton, being reprimanded. I would think (and of course this is just my way of thinking) that something like that would (hopefully) cause her to walk the 'straight and narrow' from then on out. But it's been quite a number of years and who knows.

But, after hearing about how she used to practice as a licensed acupuncturist and performed accupuncture on herself. Then went on to claim that after a four(?) weeks of treatment - it worked for breast enlargement, I'm beginning to wonder about her. :waitasec:

 

[songline]

I was composing my post Songline while you posted your reply along the same lines.

I'm not sure we should take the word(s) of prostitutes, even though I can't think what motive they'd have to come out and lie. I had not read the about JH being kind one time and abusive the other to the prostitute he'd allegedly called upon twice. Maybe I missed that part.

Regarding the psychiatrist, Dr. Fenton, being reprimanded. I would think (and of course this is just my way of thinking) that something like that would (hopefully) cause her to walk the 'straight and narrow' from then on out. But it's been quite a number of years and who knows.

But, after hearing about how she used to practice as a licensed acupuncturist and performed accupuncture on herself. Then went on to claim that after a four(?) weeks of treatment - it worked for breast enlargement, I'm beginning to wonder about her. :waitasec:

About the prostitute: I posted in in theater, because this thread was closed.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/joker_hooker_hairdo_AzlVI3vR1wETqaiQG9AojN#ixzz226yHZl7L

The Dr. has me LOOKING with 5 open eyes
that is my 2 my glasses and my 3rd eye. LOL
I am watching....

 

[zvzvzv]

aren't the references to escort reviews confirmed to be
the OTHER older man named James Holmes from Colorado?
if the shooter JH did post escort reviews where is this info?

for those not following this whole mess, there were many
escort & gun related postings under a username assumed
to be JH, but determined to be someone else based on the
fact they were a long-time Colorado resident.

 

[Liz]

Megyn Kelly was mentioning about Dr Fenton treating JH and stated about Dr F being part of the threat assessment team. Then she stated that we don't know if Dr Fenton was seeing him as part of the threat assessment team.

Good argument going on between Megyn, Lis Wiel and Mark Eiglarsh but I'm too tired to type it out.

Tune in, if you like. It's a commercial break now.

Adding this from after commercial break:

Megyn Kelly is talking about Dr Fenton being disciplined in 05, how that may cause her some extra scrutiny at trial.
Mark Eiglarsh is asking what's w/the bashing of the Dr on Kelly's Court today? Megyn replied they were just discussing what may happen at the trial. Mark says there is no evidence that this guy ever uttered a word that he was going to do anything to these people.

Now Megyn Kelly asked if the university is somehow liable due to the package allegedly sitting in the mail room for so long.

Lis Wiel said that IF it's just negligence of a 'mail carrier', then that's much harder to prove (not sure if she means a mail carrier with UC, or the USPS but I'm surmising UC). Getting back to the Dr, if she knew or should have known what he was about to do, then according to Lis Wiel, both the University and the doctor will be on the hook for that.

It's all came down to, "What did the doctor know?".

 

[songline]

Megyn Kelly was mentioning about Dr Fenton treating JH and stated about Dr F being part of the threat assessment team. Then she stated that we don't know if Dr Fenton was seeing him as part of the threat assessment team.

Good argument going on between Megyn, Lis Wiel and Mark Eiglarsh but I'm too tired to type it out.

Tune in, if you like. It's a commercial break now.

Actually everything about the school has begun to give me the willies.
They profess too much. And some of the Doctors need to be on meds. IMHO

 

[Liz]

Shooting victim's aunt, MaryEllen Hansen said this when interviewed about JH's appearance in court today, "I got a sense he was very aware of what was going on. I do not believe that he's insane but of course, I'm not a psychiatrist. He responded very appropriately and said "yes" when he understood the charges. He did look around once in the courtroom. I do think he might have something wrong with his eyes because of the expression that he uses. But he seemed very coherent to me."

Ms Hansen's niece is Ashley Moser, whose 6 year old daughter was killed and also the same victim who just miscarried her baby this past weekend.

Then Alicia Acuna reported to Shep Smith about how if JH dropped out of the university, he wouldn't be eligible for the apartment any longer (which most of us already knew).

Alicia Acuna stated that a week before the shootings, JH was wandering around the area (according to neighbors that gave this info to Reuter's), asking if there were any apartment vacancies (which most of us have heard). They also said his eyes were kind of fluttering and his behavior was weird.

 

[shadowraiths]

But, after hearing about how she used to practice as a licensed acupuncturist and performed accupuncture on herself. Then went on to claim that after a four(?) weeks of treatment - it worked for breast enlargement, I'm beginning to wonder about her. :waitasec:

Yeah, no kidding. Here's the google search of the archives ( link )

The Denver Post : Bust growth in line with acupuncture‎
$1.95 -
Denver Post - May 11, 1998
Now comes a new possibility: acupuncture, where hair-thin needles are placed in strategic places, mostly on ... Dr. Lynne Fenton admits that it sounds strange.​

I am not inclined to purchase a copy of the above article, however if the following, as described, is true ( link )? Needless to say, I am beyond words.

It now turns out that, in addition to receiving a formal reprimand from the Colorado State Medical Board for abusing narcotics and other drugs, Dr. Lynne Fenton performed acupuncture on herself to prove that as little as four weeks of treatment enlarged her own breasts, and then charged over $1200 [in 2012 dollars] to treat other women - but only after warning them that failure to continue treatments would cause their breasts to shrink once again.
​

 

[danzn16]

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

Thought this was an interesting article. A letter from parents with a son with schizophrenia to JH's parents. However, we do not know yet if he actually has this disease or not. Just stating...

 

[Liz]

Here's a vid of Criminal Profiler, Pat Brown, discussing JH:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-cycle/48290416#48263145

Don't take this as an endorsement as I am not sure what's going on with JH. I'm not going to try to be the judge of 'that'.

 

[21merc7]

Yeah, no kidding. Here's the google search of the archives ( link )

The Denver Post : Bust growth in line with acupuncture‎
$1.95 -
Denver Post - May 11, 1998
Now comes a new possibility: acupuncture, where hair-thin needles are placed in strategic places, mostly on ... Dr. Lynne Fenton admits that it sounds strange.​

I am not inclined to purchase a copy of the above article, however if the following, as described, is true ( link )? Needless to say, I am beyond words.

It now turns out that, in addition to receiving a formal reprimand from the Colorado State Medical Board for abusing narcotics and other drugs, Dr. Lynne Fenton performed acupuncture on herself to prove that as little as four weeks of treatment enlarged her own breasts, and then charged over $1200 [in 2012 dollars] to treat other women - but only after warning them that failure to continue treatments would cause their breasts to shrink once again.​

That last paragraph strikes me as funny. I'm sorry but the only thing that will increase your *advertiser censored* is implants. The line about not completing the acupuncture is the same one an allergist told me about shots. If you start them and then do not continue allergies will get worse. Well, I wasn't about to start them since they only work for 40% of the people "tested" and can kill you! Couldn't afford it anyway, but 2 1/2 to 5 years, twice a week was the going amount, don't know the price, didn't ask. Not as ridiculous as the visual illusion that my *advertiser censored* are shrinking instead of expanding though. What a scam!

(If it is all true, like everyone else, I agree we don't know if it is true.)

 

[shadowraiths]

Okay, I broke down and purchased the article. ( link )

Here is an excerpt:

A Denver doctor - a physiatrist who's been using the ancient Oriental treatment for more than five years to help relieve patients' chronic pain - has developed what she believes is a pioneer technique to enlarge bust size through acupuncture.

Dr. Lynne Fenton admits that it sounds strange.

[...]

After the 10 initial sessions, Fenton recommends a monthly maintenance schedule.

[...]

Fenton is seeking funding to do more extensive research, and she wants to study the actual mechanism involved. For now, that's the question she can't answer: Why this seems to work​

So, pain management appears to be her primary focus.

We know that Holmes was alleged to have taken Vicodin before the shooting, that Vicodin was allegedly found in his vehicle when he was arrested, and that Vicodin is considered a pain medication.

We also know that this doctor was reprimanded for prescribing Vicodin (among other narcotics) to an employee, herself, and her husband in 2004, per the Colorado State Board of Medical Examiners Stipulation and Final Agency Order ( PDF )

Things that make you (at least me, that is) go, hmmmm....

 

[21merc7]

What I am not understanding is:

Why would the University employ Dr. Fenton if they knew she was a potential liability?

 

[jjenny]

What I am not understanding is:

Why would the University employ Dr. Fenton if they knew she was a potential liability?

I am not an MD, but if all she had is one reprimand for prescribing meds to employees and relatives, it's probably not that unusual and doesn't indicate she is a potential liability. A lot of MDs have lawsuits, etc against them. That doesn't mean they are not employable.

 

[danzn16]

Thank you! My question is now... after the fact, IF threats came into that same doctor by mail or email (after the fact)... would they still be privileged? The patient is now incarcerated. Are you as a DR who treated him still obliged to (still keep patient/client privilege) after he made written, mailed threats about the safety of others to you?

Sorry it's taken forever for me to respond. The thread was down for so long that I almost stopped checking back to see if it was back up!!

That patient would still be privileged. LE would be able to get information from the doctor by warrants and all that which will be done and will appear in court. But that does not release a doctor from their HIPAA obligations to protect that patient's doctor-patient relationship and medical information, especially from the media. So no, the doctor can not release his medical info to anyone without a court order, even if he has murdered others. However, this is a rare situation because some psych patients tell their doctor before hand if they are planning something deadly and then that doctor has a duty to warn the in danger parties, to contact LE and have that patient committed. Or that patient doesn't tell the doctor at all so the doctor doesn't know and nothing can be done. And it is even rarer that a doctor gets a mailed notebook after the fact telling the doctor of plans (if this is even true). But if it is true, that doctor would not have known before hand and wouldn't have known to act. If JH mentioned this act while in the office then this isn't targeting anyone in particular so the doctor has no one to warn, he would have just been committed as a danger to others. I hope I answered your question.

 

[danzn16]

I am not an MD, but if all she had is one reprimand for prescribing meds to employees and relatives, it's probably not that unusual and doesn't indicate she is a potential liability. A lot of MDs have lawsuits, etc against them. That doesn't mean they are not employable.

True. These reprimands that she has against her are not very great and wouldn't really affect her ability to get jobs.

 

[danzn16]

huh? not disposing of HIPPA but if a doctor is concerned re a patient, there'd be a venue to discuss that. Not really that complex of an idea. People get Baker acted all the time but that's for fear of their safety but what about when others pose a threat?

HIPAA doesn't prevent a doctor from protecting others from a patient that poses a threat. A doctor has a duty to warn those at risk and a duty to commit that patient. This is the one time HIPAA can basically be bypassed. Here is the case that allowed this to happen after a mental illness patient murdered someone he told his doctor he was going to. Back then doctors weren't allowed to break their doctor-patient relationship. Now they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasoff_v._Regents_of_the_University_of_California