ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

[linette]

Yep......All things are possible. It was odd the length of her interview....and this has also made me wonder, if yes, she was involved.

I dont even think I have made a decision whether I do think she is involved...Im definitely a :fence: when it comes to her. Probably because as you say, just because her moral compass was a bit askew at that time, it doesnt make her a murderer.

I was thinking {because TM & GBC's relationship seems to be in the past} if she WAS involved in Allison's death, it would have more to do with shady deals that were made while he was seeing her, rather than a current love triangle, know what I mean? Maybe the affects of the shady deal are ongoing, or were such that they could both still be in trouble over it to this day... and maybe Allison found out or threatened to expose the truth? Who knows what kind of deals they may have made while playing together. I only think this because I don't think he was seeing her anymore?? But, hey, who knows... quite possible he was playing them all.

 

[Makara]

Thank you so much Bayside and Sleuthilicious for sharing this info with us.

Perhaps TM really was just assisting police in those interviews she did with them - giving them background information about the affair and GBC, evidence of what she knew about the marriage, fights, financial situation, business dealings etc, and she was not actually involved in the crime at all.

Neither of you mentioned (I don't think?) accomplices - I wonder if there was suspicion of an accomplice right from the start, (apart from TM).... sorry I guess this is probably something you can't answer in any event.

BBM:

Good thinking Thinking. Perhaps that is how the police learned about the woman in Sydney. Other family members may also have been brought into the mix.

MOO.

 

[linette]

I just preferred that it would be a death resulting from a push or an argument gone horribly wrong. The thought that it was premeditated was just too awful. Now, I'm beginning to wonder. Still hoping that wasn't the case though.

 

[willough]

The lack of attention paid to this is interesting. A murder conviction carries a life sentence which means the offender cannot apply for parole until 15 years and 1 day after conviction. If there was also a conviction for interference it would not affect the sentence in any way. Although there is provision for the court to order that sentences be served consecutively, this matter doesn't fit within any of the existing common law guidelines which enliven the exercise of that discretion. It is not a circumstance of aggravation for murder, there are no circumstances of aggravation for murder in Qld because of the mandatory life sentence.

There are a couple of possibilities as to why it was added to the indictment (if in fact it survives to be included). It could be suggested that if there is eventually a plea bargain and the accused pleads guilty to manslaughter in answer to the charge of murder on the indictment, that the DPP will require a plea to guilty for the interference charge also, to the effect of increasing the overall penalty. It could be that the circumstances of the interference do, in fact, enliven the discretion as to ordering consecutive sentences.

It could, alternatively, be that the police feel that the circumstances of the interference are so offensive that the community needs to be able to formally express its feelings about this to the offender by way of a conviction, regardless of whether it can figure in the sentence for a manslaughter conviction. That would involve extra time, stress and expense at trial.

It is interesting that the media do not seem to be pursuing the reason behind this inclusion of a second charge, given its apparent lack of impact on the proceedings. MOO.

Hubby and I were talking about this (oddly over dinner) on Friday night. The kids were off playing, with other patrons and we talked extensively abotu the BC case.....as he knows im so interested. When I said to him the GBC was also being charged with unlawful interference of a corpse.....He literally dropped his fork. He was "WOW....What did he do to her?"....Obviously, I didnt know. He was floored.....................Because often in cases, the perp moves the corpse, but doesnt get charged for it....Some have even buried the corpse. Is the guy who harmed young Daniel being charged with this?...I dont know.

BUt, he seemed to be of the impression that he must have done something serious to her body post death. He also thinks this is how it tends to be reflected in court.......If it is a minor interference, then the charge may be incorporated into the time he does for murder.....if severe, then they may treat them seperate and oncehe has finished his time for murder, may then have to do time for that 2nd charge.

I didnt say anything, but to me, for a police officer to drop his fork and find it bizarre that this charge has been given, was very telling.

 

[Hawkins]

He literally dropped his fork. .

I had a similar reaction.

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Thank you so much Bayside and Sleuthilicious for sharing this info with us.

Perhaps TM really was just assisting police in those interviews she did with them - giving them background information about the affair and GBC, evidence of what she knew about the marriage, fights, financial situation, business dealings etc, and she was not actually involved in the crime at all.

Neither of you mentioned (I don't think?) accomplices - I wonder if there was suspicion of an accomplice right from the start, (apart from TM).... sorry I guess this is probably something you can't answer in any event.

Sorry, I don't know. I was asking questions but trying not to look too 'nutty'...if you know what I mean :blushing: I was gobsmacked this person was so involved in the early days.

I'll try and make sure the topic comes up again

 

[willough]

Re : The interference with a corpse.

Could it be possible that the length he may be given for the murder may be a lower timescale than we think, therefore, if they slap him with this charge too, it could very well keep him in longer ie til the formulative years of the girls are over.

Nah.....Im just gassing now......and no, not from my fart zone :floorlaugh:

 

[YoureNicked]

I doubt the assessment takes several days. He may be refusing to eat/drink?
But I think he has shown signs of a "break-down".

In this article it says that, following medical examination, Baden-
Clay was deemed "not fit to enter his 3mx4m cell and will remain under observation at the medical unit until 'at least after the weekend".

Yes, I wonder why he has been kept in the medical unit for so long.

http://www.news.com.au/national/par...aden-clay-arrest/story-e6frfkvr-1226397286105

 

[willough]

Interesting.....We hear on one hand, it is normal procedure (with link back up), then (with link back up as well) we hear he is not deemed fit..... (scratches head)

 

[YoureNicked]

That is something I can never come to any understanding of. All of them are in there for a crime of some kind, hopefully they are working towards rehabilitation at some point. They all get a sentence, why would they think it is their place to inflict any further punishment of their choice, on another prisoner, also jeopardising their own release date, makes no sense at all.

I've heard it said that like it is with people on the outside world, convicted criminals like to feel they are morally 'better than' others...the burglar thinks he's 'better than' the person convicted of assault, who thinks he's a better person than the rapist, who thinks he's better than the murderer or paedophile.

Yep, more sick games that humans play in order to justify ourselves! :waitasec:

 

[Spotted Reptile]

. . . It is not a circumstance of aggravation for murder, there are no circumstances of aggravation for murder in Qld because of the mandatory life sentence . . .

Ah, thank you for explaining that, Hawkins, didn't realise it was different in Qld. As you say, that makes one wonder why it has been included.

 

[Seeking]

I would think if I had a child with aggressive tendencies I would seek to have the problem addressed by professionals. I have a 43 year old Bi-Polar son. My ex (his father) was also Bi-polar but never diagnosed.My ex's mother was in a mental institution (in the 40's and 50's)for most of her adult life.The condition was not labeled back then,,,,she was just insane (so sad). My ex was extremely violent ,his mother tried to kill his father twice. My son though Bi-Polar has never shown a tendency to violence so I am blessed . He is a gentle and kind soul and very intelligent. When my son showed his first signs of this illness I sought help for him immediately. He was 23 so have dealt with this for some time. I think being proactive is the key. Find out what is causing the behavior as early as you can.Chemical imbalances in the brain can cause several unusual/strange/odd behaviors as in manic depression /bi-polar conditions etc. There are a myriad of meds available to stabilise these conditions but it can be difficult to diagnose and eventually find the right combination of meds to do the job.If your child is the one you are worried about your GP should be able to point you in the right direction re what action to take I would hope.Through my sons experience I have many contacts having been involved in his rehabilitation for over 20 years when he has been unwell. If you are asking beause you know someone who is unwell and need some input send me a PM. I hope this helps.

Thanks Mothergoose and also Your Nicked. I didn't have anyone particular in mind as I wrote the question and I was on my Iphone and didn't want to write more. I was just writing as a mother of 4 (3 of whom are boys of varying ages). Everyone wants the best for their children and wants to be informed about how to grow them to be the best possible adults they can. We want them to grow up knowing how to treat people respectfully and to have self control so that when they can contribute positively to society. My question was more about if you happened to have a child or someone else close to you showing those tendencies how can we as parents or the community help them to manage those tendencies so that they don't murder or abuse someone etc. Parenting is not easy at the best of time...how much harder if you have a child with those tendencies!

 

[Hawkins]

Re : The interference with a corpse.

Could it be possible that the length he may be given for the murder may be a lower timescale than we think, therefore, if they slap him with this charge too, it could very well keep him in longer :

As I said above this charge would have no effect on a murder sentence for an adult. I know of cases where it has been added to a murder indictment for juveniles where it could affect the sentence because there was no mandatory life penalty for them.

The charge of interference does come up now and then for adult accused but in conjunction with a manslaughter charge, not murder. If there has been interference and there is a conviction for that, then that can significantly increase the gravity of the manslaughter charge, rather then result in an additional penalty.

I don't like to speculate on outcomes but I would not be surprised in the slightest if the interference charge is there because the prosecution has doubts about the weight of its evidence regarding intention even at this early stage. Depending on how his lawyers assess the weight of evidence, he might be very well advised to consider offering a plea of guilty to manslaughter. All just MOO.

 

[Hawkins]

Thanks Mothergoose and also Your Nicked. I didn't have anyone particular in mind as I wrote the question and I was on my Iphone and didn't want to write more. I was just writing as a mother of 4 (3 of whom are boys of varying ages). Everyone wants the best for their children and wants to be informed about how to grow them to be the best possible adults they can. We want them to grow up knowing how to treat people respectfully and to have self control so that when they can contribute positively to society. My question was more about if you happened to have a child or someone else close to you showing those tendencies how can we as parents or the community help them to manage those tendencies so that they don't murder or abuse someone etc. Parenting is not easy at the best of time...how much harder if you have a child with those tendencies!

Loving your work.

 

[Greg]

Thank you so much Bayside and Sleuthilicious for sharing this info with us.

Perhaps TM really was just assisting police in those interviews she did with them - giving them background information about the affair and GBC, evidence of what she knew about the marriage, fights, financial situation, business dealings etc, and she was not actually involved in the crime at all.

Neither of you mentioned (I don't think?) accomplices - I wonder if there was suspicion of an accomplice right from the start, (apart from TM).... sorry I guess this is probably something you can't answer in any event.

Yeah I don't think TM is involved.....I think this is a BC production from start to finish. Moo

 

[XyzQuestions]

thank you XYzquestions and welcome. Between you and Ferris you put to rest a couple of questions that we had all been discussing over a number of weeks.

Are the girls and their friends alright? It must be very hard for the young children around them to understand what has happened, gosh most of us can't understand or believe it and that is why we are one here.

A question though and I hope I am not being rude, do you know if the girls were at home on the Thursday night or did Allison take them to the GBC. Somebody told me that the girls had dancing lessons on the Thursday afternoon, and I have wondered whether that was what Allison meant by saying to the hairdresser "that she had the evening off"

Thank you and welcome again

Hi spratsmum. I do not know if the girls were at home that night or not. My friend that spoke to her on the Thursday at the school pick up said that Allison was going to take her girls to ballet. I do not know how the girls are faring since GBC was arrested as the girls have not been back to school since last Wednesday. The school has been providing access to counselling services for those that need it. The children have been told not to discuss the case at school so that all the children at the school can experience familiar routines and not feel distressed. Thank you for making me feel welcome. You are very kind.

 

[willough]

As I reach my 1000th post, I still remain as saddened now as I did the very first time I posted.

The intense feeling of how does this happen to a woman so lovely?. But even more so, how does this happen to people who even if they weren’t in love anymore, people who had been in a relationship for 20 or so years?

It surely is a case that can run all forms of fear through any woman in any relationship. The thought that even though one has gone through thick and thin, that in the end, it comes down to dead on a creek bed, is darn scary to say the least..

Was it doomed from the beginning?, or did this twist out of proportion in such a way that even Allison could never have perceived this was coming?. Were there signs? Or did he just crack?

Either way, I don’t think either Gerard of Allison ever thought it would come to this on their wedding day….Sadly a love now lost, but more so, through this love….a life is now lost.

Rest in Peace Allison….Watch your girls from afar and dance in the sky.

 

[willough]

Thanks Hawkins for your responses...Appreciate them, so very much.....Hugs xx

 

[Seeking]

Loving your work.

Thanks Hawkins...are you suggesting that "loving your work" as a parent helps the parenting outcome to be better?

 

[Greg]

As I reach my 1000th post, I still remain as saddened now as I did the very first time I posted.

Was it doomed from the beginning?, or did this twist out of proportion in such a way that even Allison could never have perceived this was coming?. Were there signs? Or did he just crack?

Either way, I don’t think either Gerard of Allison ever thought it would come to this on their wedding day….Sadly a love now lost, but more so, through this love….a life is now lost.

Rest in Peace Allison….Watch your girls from afar and dance in the sky.

A 1000 posts...lol

As plucka says they were once in love .....I don't doubt that......but that was a long time ago.

I have to go with my buddy Trooper on this one.....I reckon that naughty boy has had wicked thoughts of murder floating around in his mind for quite some time..... Moo