ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#24

[Woof]

My first post. I know there is confusion as to whether the girls were home on the Thursday night, but it seems a strange thing for there to be confusion over.

This from the Herald Sun:
Mrs Baden-Clay's three daughters were on a sleepover the night their mother reportedly went for a walk and didn't return to the family's Brookfield home in Brisbane's west.

Whereas the Courier-Mail:
The following day, on Friday, April 20, she had a full itinerary, including a work forum in the city and had planned to drop her three daughters off to a slumber party that night.


Both assertions seem authoratative, given the lack of "reportedly" or "apparently" in the text. Is this still a complete unknown?

It is possible that it could be both. Girls staying at BC Seniors on Thursday night, and going to a Slumber Party on Fri with friends. But I agree with you that it would be good to get confirmation on this.

 

[Woof]

A friend of my family in the USA was killed last week after going for a jog with her sister. Very sad. Her unborn baby was also killed as a result. The differences were that it was a stranger who killed her (random robbery) and secondly the penalty will be FAR greater. Our punishments here are so lax in comparison. Murder is what? Approx 20 years?

So terribly sad. My condolences to you and your family.

 

[plentyofnous]

So terribly sad. My condolences to you and your family.

Me too, terrible situation

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I talk to myself all the time so answering your own post should be fine lol.

:floorlaugh: Good one.

 

[bearbear]

I think the Dickies had been made aware very soon after Allisons body was found who was the main suspect. I also think those closest to Allison would also know.

Olivia did look concerned but I dont know if that concern was for Allison or for her brother.

i wonder if police would have been allowed to inform the dickies who they thought the perp was? would that be ethical before an arrest? unless it was hinted at in their conversations with police. i guess the dickies would have guessed anyway by the odd behaviour of the son inlaw and the distancing of his family

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

A friend of my family in the USA was killed last week after going for a jog with her sister. Very sad. Her unborn baby was also killed as a result. The differences were that it was a stranger who killed her (random robbery) and secondly the penalty will be FAR greater. Our punishments here are so lax in comparison. Murder is what? Approx 20 years?

Very, very sad. Sorry to hear that.

And yes I agree our sentences can be way too lenient.. Why call it 'life' when its 15-20yrs? Should life not mean life- I don't mean death penalty- thats a whole nother discussion. But if given a sentence of life imprisonment, shouldn't it really reflect lifespan in years? 15-20yrs is not life to me, I know there are under special circumstances the allowance to stamp 'never to be released'. but this does not happen too often.

IMO

 

[Fuskier]

I can't recall any instances where I've thought the journalist's personal feelings were evident in the story - but I could be wrong. Maybe another way to look at what has been reported is to consider what was available (and legal) to report on at the time.

In a hypothetical example, let's say Family A has worked alongside police and the media, has been interviewed several times, has released statements, and has appeared very willing to find a resolution to the situation. So, the media reports on this for the simple reason that all of the above has actually occurred and they can legally publish it.

Then, let's say Family B has not appeared at command posts, has not released any statements, or agreed to be interviewed. Let's also hypothesise that Family B has made it very clear there could be legal ramifications if the media oversteps the mark with them. Therefore, the media has very limited information, if any, to present on this family's behalf to "support" their situation (in an attempt to cover both sides of the story).

Therefore, IMO, if the stories appear to lack impartiality then it might be solely because their reportage reflects the information they have been given - or are legally able to publish/broadcast.

FACTFINDA: Thank you this certainly helps us understand the situation better.

 

[plentyofnous]

On twitter his lawyer has just arrived at the Gorrie Centre

 

[possumheart]

Does anyone know if there are situations where lawyers/barristers advise clients to plead guilty?
If so, does that mean that the details of the crime are then supressed?

 

[ozazure]

A friend of my family in the USA was killed last week after going for a jog with her sister. Very sad. Her unborn baby was also killed as a result. The differences were that it was a stranger who killed her (random robbery) and secondly the penalty will be FAR greater. Our punishments here are so lax in comparison. Murder is what? Approx 20 years?

I'm very sorry for your loss, my heart hurts for these childless mothers.

I agree that 20 years is not a sentence in line with community expectations. I honestly can't believe there isn't more vigilante style revenge from family members who'd prefer to do the 20 themselves than see the perpetrator get out in less than 2 decades.

 

[louisepiglet]

Does anyone know if there are situations where lawyers/barristers advise clients to plead guilty?
If so, does that mean that the details of the crime are then supressed?

I would like to know this as well.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Very, very sad. Sorry to hear that.

And yes I agree our sentences can be way too lenient.. Why call it 'life' when its 15-20yrs? Should life not mean life- I don't mean death penalty- thats a whole nother discussion. But if given a sentence of life imprisonment, shouldn't it really reflect lifespan in years? 15-20yrs is not life to me, I know there are under special circumstances the allowance to stamp 'never to be released'. but this does not happen too often.
IMO

We have a few down here who have been stamped with "NTBR". It usually depends on the circumstances of the crime, in this case GBC killed his wife which would not normally be considered "heinous", if he killed his children it would be a whole other kettle of fish.

In SA we have Bevan Spencer Von Einem, a truly evil individual, who will never be released. Others that come to mind are Ivan Milat, Martin Bryant, and those involved with Anita Cobby's murder. I expect Daniel Morcombe's murderer/s to also be sentenced this way.

It takes a special cruelty to earn this sentence in Australia.

 

[marlywings]

June 18, 2012 12:52PM

THE Queensland Police Service has sought legal advice on some Facebook comments posted about the arrest of Gerard Baden-Clay.
Baden-Clay was last week charged with the murder of his wife Allison, who he reported missing from their Brisbane home on April 20.

He remains in custody ahead of a bail application this week.

Police say they sought the opinion of the police service solicitor after a Bond University professor of journalism flagged potential legal issues with some comments

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...erard-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226398656193

 

[plentyofnous]

Does anyone know if there are situations where lawyers/barristers advise clients to plead guilty?
If so, does that mean that the details of the crime are then supressed?

Advice is just that, Advice, a good Barrister should examine the evidence, and form an argument on what are the accused persons chances of success, and further advise them on what is likely to happen in the chance it goes a different way, ultimately the decision lays with the accused and Courts are very careful to make sure no coercion is involved IMO

No, details are read out in Court, but not as sensational as witnesses appearing IMO

 

[Mothergoose]

I'm very sorry for your loss, my heart hurts for these childless mothers.

I agree that 20 years is not a sentence in line with community expectations. I honestly can't believe there isn't more vigilante style revenge from family members who'd prefer to do the 20 themselves than see the perpetrator get out in less than 2 decades.

I commend the Dickies for the dignity and restraint they have shown over the previous months.What courage they have shown. I don't know if I would have been so gracious (unfortunately).If Allison had confided in her mum that her marriage was on the rocks and this tragedy occurred it must have taken every ounce of self control not to confront GBC face to face.I think I'd be like a Bull in a china shop."Look me in the eyes , tell ME about that night I want to know everything Gerard"."Did you hurt Allison?" I don't think I'd let up I would be so angry and frustrated at his actions during the search for her and after.
They are amazing people and must have incredible confidence that Justice will prevail. My hat goes off to the Dickies. MOO

 

[Trooper]

I would like to know this as well.

Originally Posted by possumheart
Does anyone know if there are situations where lawyers/barristers advise clients to plead guilty?
If so, does that mean that the details of the crime are then supressed?

There are often situations where the client is advised to plead guilty.. there is an automatic discount in sentencing for pleading guilty, sometimes its about 20% off the desgnated penalty.. sometimes less, sometimes more...it doesnt follow that the client follows this advice, though.

The details of the crime are never supressed, really. They are summed up in the sentencing of the perpetrator by the judge, in very elegant straightforward terms that have the ring of utter total ghastliness and are usually up on the Australasian Legal Information Institute website within hours of that pronouncement. AustLII

The only supression that I am aware of is if the perpetrator is underage, and then the initials only are used... but the crime itself is outlined, from start to finish.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Does anyone know if there are situations where lawyers/barristers advise clients to plead guilty?
If so, does that mean that the details of the crime are then supressed?

Barristers and solicitors are required to give their clients the best legal advice they can.

If the client continues to deny guilt, their lawyer must support that plea, unless they discover otherwise, in which case they can ask to be excused from the case entirely...but they are still obligated to protect their client's confidentiality so may not (legally) supply any information discussed, and it cannot be used as evidence as it is viewed as "privileged". The lawyer will face disciplinary action and possible disbarrment.

If the client confides in the lawyer that he/she is guilty, the lawyer will advise a guilty plea in the best interests of the client (less jail time etc).

 

[Trooper]

In the reading of the sentence, the judge includes the coroners report, the medical examners report, the conclusions of these officers, the police report, the witnesses credibility, either good or bad, the demeanor of the accused, the mental reports from the court appointed phsycs, the victims families statements, the areas of known and unknown factors, the weight of credibility given to each and every statement made by witnesses, and , should he/she so choose, the now convicted person.

They are public documents and can be accessed freely.. what has to be paid for and its usually quite a substantial sum is a transcript of the trial itself, this takes a bit longer, and is thoroughly gone over for a few weeks for accuracy and repitition, etc. but that is available to any citizen upon payment of the usual fee. Sometimes its around $300 to $1000 and up , depending on the length, number of appearances, etc, a whole lot of factors.

 

[Woof]

Does anyone know if there are situations where lawyers/barristers advise clients to plead guilty?
If so, does that mean that the details of the crime are then supressed?

Matthew Wales in Victoria pleaded guilty. But there is a book called The Society Murders, so as far as 'supressing' details of the crime I don't think so. His crime was published. However, this is QLD, could be different. JMO.

 

[Trooper]

And when you get your copy of the transcript it is beautifully bound, printed exquisitely, carefully catalogued and notarised as accurate by the Clerk of Courts, you take it inside, close the door, put on your comfy stuff and get down to some serious and solid reading.


Worth every cent, in my opinion.