ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #8

[livingstone]

i have to disagree...he was addicted to the internet and the attention he got off of it...positive and negative...he got off on it....it was a source of energy and adrenaline and everything else.....

i have friends who are correctional officers and while the US is prob diff than other countries, i doubt he is getting that much attention. not the attention that he needs and craves...

no way....

Personally, I am not sure. That's why I put all the question marks.

I do see the need for the attention on the internet.

The kind of attention I speak of is not healthy attention. Its a sort of demented attention. Not in a motherly and soft way, but rather, having another adult run your life for you. An authority figure making decisions for you and dictating your life removes all your responsibilities. That's what adults do with babies.

A baby cannot appreciate all the nuisances of the adult's processes as a baby. Those decisions of when to feed, what to feed, what to wear, etc. But the baby needs an adult for that.

This guy is like a baby. His being in prison is kinda like a baby having a sorta crappy mother. You don't get intimate nurturing but all the physical needs are met. And, there is no abuse. The CO's I know do not abuse the inmates. (Not saying it does not happen)

Anyway, I see your points. I do not disagree with your comments. They actually fit with what I am thinking in a strange way. Like not getting the attention he needs and craves. He will have a weird version of getting that attention, but attention he will get. There will be doctors lined up in droves to interview and study him, reporters and crime show networks begging to meet and interview this guy.

He will not be bored. Do you think that can suffice? Or take the place of the internet? I don't know.

Incidentally, I'm not so sure he really wanted the kind of attention he got on the internet. Seems more a band aid. I suspect that deep down he desired to bond with someone. That the internet and that kind of attention is not what the deepest parts of his persona craved. But that is all he had because he was incapable of responding to other human beings on an intimate level.

I am afraid that there are so many kids like this now. There always were but more nowadays.

 

[prima.facie]

I am afraid that there are so many kids like this now. There always were but more nowadays.

yeah and as we mentioned earlier, the internet is their playground giving them what they need/want instantly...even if it is superficial.... :/

 

[livingstone]

A very interesting post livingstone and I think there is a possibly a lot of truth in what you say. The only thing I would add tho is that a couple of people who knew him 8-10 years ago (his ex girlfriend, and a male friend) both talk about the fact that they broke off with him because he was freaking them out, acting weird.

Also, the male friend who knew him in (I think) 2002-3 said that when he (the friend) suggested going out, Magnotta would refuse. The friend described him as a 'home boy' (I remember the expression). He added that LM would usually only do so at night and in big crowds. So I don't really think there was ever this Magnotta who would go out partying.

The wanting to punish himself strikes a definite chord. His ex-girlfriend said he would often hit himself, particularly in the head. That smacks of self-loathing to me, but he was doing that when he was 18 or 19. His anger too, violent mood swings. I believe it was his ex girlfriend who said she once accidentally knocked over a photo of him and he flew off the handle and lost it.

I have to say I find a lot of what you say pretty convincing, the only thing I would question is that he ever was a party person, that he once had a 'life'. For me the accounts by his ex girlfriend and former friend suggest otherwise. They also both cut off contact with him because he was freaking them out. The male friend said that when he was trying to end their friendship, Magnotta became extremely anxious.

So in conclusion I think you make some points that I find fairly convincing, but I don't think it gives the whole picture. I think there was no previous life, just a slow degradation, a worsening of symptoms, an increase in anger as he failed in everything he needed to achieve in order to feel validated. (In the reality tv audition he actually says something like 'Everything I set my mind on, I achieve'. No he didn't, and that was part of the problem.

As you say, his looks started to fade and that might have been what pushed him over the edge. I do believe he had a desire to destroy himself, and that the killing was maybe a way of doing that. After that gruesome act, there was no going back.

I also believe he is pretty broken now. Not that he wasn't anyway. But he realises it's all over. I reckon that he has probably been feeling a mixture of fear and relief. Consider the reports of people who've come across him since he fled. On the plane he was extremely agitated and crying incontrollably. In the bar in Paris he was described as being 'very nervous'. When asked in a Parisian perfume shop not to handle the merchandise he lost it and started shouting at the shop assistant. And in the internet café in Berlin he was also said to be agitated and nervous.

In prison in Berlin he has been described as 'meek'. He has nowhere to run now.

These are just my thoughts.

I think this is a very interesting and thought-provoking dialogue we're having here. This case has disturbed us all, and is bringing things up that are very uncomfortable for many of us. I am grateful that I have all of you to share this experience with. We are all trying to understand what has happened here. We are walking in the darkness, feeling out for clues. I like the mutual respect that we are showing each other in our sometimes differing approaches to doing this.

As you said earlier livingstone, in the name of Lin Jun let's try to understand what went on here. Lin Jun has passed away and will not come back. So let's hope that in his name society can learn at least a few lessons and try to move forward.

RIP Lin Jun

Totally get that, and that was an outstanding analysis with many noteworthy comments.

Think you are right about him being broken. Him being relived, etc.

I recall now he did hit himself. Had forgotten that.

Doubt the whole picture will ever be discovered outside the mind of Magnotta himself.


BTW, I am a mere grunt in the sea of minds trying to analyze this case. It's when minds come together that things happen. For example your post causes me to rethink my opinion as well as to improve it to become more accurate; and to discard the inaccuracies.

Arrogance nor ego has a place in truly effective investigative work, IMO.

Thanks for that post.

*edited to add "your post causes many of us to rethink our opinion as well as to improve it to become more accurate; and to discard the inaccuracies."

That's what was in my mind actually.

 

[jeanne]

yeah and as we mentioned earlier, the internet is their playground giving them what they need/want instantly...even if it is superficial.... :/

Even 'healthy' people are getting caught up in internet addictions.

 

[james62]

If LM still believed the delusional persona he had created for himself, he probably did not see these admissions about botched plastic surgery to be as damaging as anyone not sharing those delusions would.

Just my perspective.

My thoughts exactly. I don't think he realised how much he was letting his guard down, tho perhaps that was because he would do anything to get on the show. Getting on the show would in a way mean he'd 'made it', he would be on TV, so in his quest for that he didn't keep up the persona.

I don't believe the previous plastic surgery was botched tho, just that he wanted more, and the TV programme would also give him that. I think it was jujercu who voiced the opinion earlier that the prospect of getting more plastic surgery was what made him so 'candid', and I can also go with that.

Interestingly I am now willing to believe he did have plastic surgery, whereas before I thought he was lying, I am now prepared to entertain the idea that he did. He shows the interviewer the scars on the back of his head, for example. Also, if you look at the Berlin police photo, which is a warts and all pic, the area under his eyes looks like might have had work Done (JMO).

 

[ccaudill0062]

This is a bit off topic, but I just wanted to thank everyone for making me feel welcome at this site. I had been reading the stuff on here for a few days but just joined the other day. I'm not the type of person who usually registers for forums, etc. but reading the posts it seemed like you guys were very intelligent, caring people, and that many of you have a interest in these kinds of things, like me. Thanks to everyone for helping me when I had questions and being open to all my posts and even if having different opinions being respectful and not getting angry or taking it personal, I think that is a trait you can find in few people these days. But I really do appreciate the warm welcome from all you guys, and let's hope that they can nail LM for the horrible crimes he committed, and that Lin Jun and his family may find some kind of peace and justice in all this, esp. considering what the family has had to go through with the video of the murder of their son/friend being made public, it really it's awful and I couldn't imagine how I would deal had it been my daughter. <3

 

[dallydilly]

Even 'healthy' people are getting caught up in internet addictions.

:blushing: I sure am with this fella

 

[james62]

BTW, I am a mere grunt in the sea of minds trying to analyze this case. It's when minds come together that things happen. For example your post causes me to rethink my opinion as well as to improve it to become more accurate; and to discard the inaccuracies.

Arrogance nor ego has a place in truly effective investigative work, IMO.

As are we all, livingstone. As I said before, this is bringing stuff up in each of us and providing a level of debate and discussion, and a maturity and respect which I truly appreciate.

I have found this case to be particularly difficult to discuss with friends, as they all give me blank looks or change the subject. But today I was having coffee with a neighbour, who is normally of the tabloid 'they're all eveil, hang 'em!' brigade. But because of all the discussions we've had here over the past few days, I was able to talk to him in quite a lot of detail about the complexities of this case and the poor reporting in the media, and we actually had a really meaningful conversation on quite a deep level. Quite an achievement.

I shall probably sign off with this now, but what I think this is doing for some of us is bringing out our humanity, a desire to understand what makes us human. I want to share something my clinical psychologist said to me. I once asked her what the difference was between a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Now, I don't know if this is strictly true, but she said: 'Psychiatrists only study 'normal behaviour', whereas psychologists also study 'abnormal behaviour', so we have a more objective view.' Apologies to any psychiatrists reading if that's not true. We are taking the very difficult step of looking at what happens when things go badly wrong. And that takes a certain amount of courage.

So let's give ourselves a pat on the back.

And with that, good night (I think...)

:seeya::seeya::seeya:

 

[livingstone]

In some closing thoughts&#8230;.wanna reveal something personal to you

Here's a few comments I made today:

"it's all about MEEEEEE" mentality, in the FB me, me, me, world, I can GUARANTEE there are little Lukas everywhere"

"I am afraid that there are so many kids like this now. There always were but more nowadays."

"Arrogance nor ego has a place in truly effective investigative work, IMO."

Now, I would LOVE to tell you that those comments stem from my so well adjusted and healthy mindset. That because I am so above all that, and so evolved that I would NEVER be such a person as I describe.

BUT, the urge to do those things I describe is ever present. I wish it to be about meeeee. I wish to be right all the time. I want to be the best. (Arrogance) I want to regard only myself and my own opinions. (ego)

The reason those of us who are willing to admit this, is because we know we have to RESIST the urges and through life and maturity learn how to control those natural urges.

In today's society and with INSTANT gratification at every turn it becomes more difficult to control such urges. I will admit I have difficulty in this age.

Mr. Magnotta is the poster child of what happens when you let those urges go.

So, this case convicts me in a strange and deep way. Can't speak for others. But, it is a mirror. I think I can understand the comment Mr. Magnotta made about the mirror. It may not be the way he meant it, but looking at him it's difficult not to see some of my own weaknesses. Indulgence, instant gratification, arrogance and many other unpleasant and painful things.

Please do not mistake that for any sort of admiration for Mr. Magnotta. I have none.

I worry for the next generation who was not taught to restrain oneself from such urges as were aforementioned. In fact we are now taught to embrace them. Do what feels right. Do it for you. You are special, you are different, You deserve special treatment, etc.

It's hard enough without all that.

Anywho.....

Nice talking to you all today. Hope you have a pleasant evening.

 

[Cappuccino]

There seems to be a common theme here that the internet and the general selfishness of modern life are breeding killers and psychos at an unprecedented rate. I have no idea whether or not its true, but I'd just like to post an opposing voice to balance things....

In sixteenth-century Paris, a popular form of entertainment was cat-burning, in which a cat was hoisted in a sling on a stage and slowly lowered into a fire. According to historian Norman Davies, "[T]he spectators, including kings and queens, shrieked with laughter as the animals, howling with pain, were singed, roasted, and finally carbonized." Today, such sadism would be unthinkable in most of the world. This change in sensibilities is just one example of perhaps the most important and most underappreciated trend in the human saga: Violence has been in decline over long stretches of history, and today we are probably living in the most peaceful moment of our species' time on earth.

In the decade of Darfur and Iraq, and shortly after the century of Stalin, Hitler, and Mao, the claim that violence has been diminishing may seem somewhere between hallucinatory and obscene. Yet recent studies that seek to quantify the historical ebb and flow of violence point to exactly that conclusion.

Some of the evidence has been under our nose all along. Conventional history has long shown that, in many ways, we have been getting kinder and gentler. Cruelty as entertainment, human sacrifice to indulge superstition, slavery as a labor-saving device, conquest as the mission statement of government, genocide as a means of acquiring real estate, torture and mutilation as routine punishment, the death penalty for misdemeanors and differences of opinion, assassination as the mechanism of political succession, rape as the spoils of war, pogroms as outlets for frustration, homicide as the major form of conflict resolution&#8212;all were unexceptionable features of life for most of human history. But, today, they are rare to nonexistent in the West, far less common elsewhere than they used to be, concealed when they do occur, and widely condemned when they are brought to light.

Read the whole essay by Steven Pinker here...http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html

 

[jeanne]

There seems to be a common theme here that the internet and the general selfishness of modern life are breeding killers and psychos at an unprecedented rate. I have no idea whether or not its true, but I'd just like to post an opposing voice to balance things....



Read the whole essay by Steven Pinker here...http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html

Good essay, but i would argue that it hasn't diminished at all; it is just underground.

 

[udar55]

Yes it was turned over to the police.

Baudi - tried to send you a PM but it said you had no space left in you inbox. Let me know if you got it. Thanks!

 

[svpernin]

In some closing thoughts….wanna reveal something personal to you

Here's a few comments I made today:

"it's all about MEEEEEE" mentality, in the FB me, me, me, world, I can GUARANTEE there are little Lukas everywhere"

"I am afraid that there are so many kids like this now. There always were but more nowadays."

"Arrogance nor ego has a place in truly effective investigative work, IMO."

Now, I would LOVE to tell you that those comments stem from my so well adjusted and healthy mindset. That because I am so above all that, and so evolved that I would NEVER be such a person as I describe.

BUT, the urge to do those things I describe is ever present. I wish it to be about meeeee. I wish to be right all the time. I want to be the best. (Arrogance) I want to regard only myself and my own opinions. (ego)

The reason those of us who are willing to admit this, is because we know we have to RESIST the urges and through life and maturity learn how to control those natural urges.

In today's society and with INSTANT gratification at every turn it becomes more difficult to control such urges. I will admit I have difficulty in this age.

Mr. Magnotta is the poster child of what happens when you let those urges go.

So, this case convicts me in a strange and deep way. Can't speak for others. But, it is a mirror. I think I can understand the comment Mr. Magnotta made about the mirror. It may not be the way he meant it, but looking at him it's difficult not to see some of my own weaknesses. Indulgence, instant gratification, arrogance and many other unpleasant and painful things.

Please do not mistake that for any sort of admiration for Mr. Magnotta. I have none.

I worry for the next generation who was not taught to restrain oneself from such urges as were aforementioned. In fact we are now taught to embrace them. Do what feels right. Do it for you. You are special, you are different, You deserve special treatment, etc.

It's hard enough without all that.

Anywho.....

Nice talking to you all today. Hope you have a pleasant evening.

I really appreciate this post. For the past week I have been asking myself "why can't I just look away?" and your post sort of articulates my reasons in a way I was unable to arrive at myself.

Also, I am so grateful to be able to read along here because as I delve into the darkest sides of humanity, I need these reminders that there are people out there who are primarily governed by their better instincts.

 

[Cappuccino]

Good essay, but i would argue that it hasn't diminished at all; it is just underground.

Even that says something though. There's a difference between a society where kings and queens sit down to watch legalised torture and animal cruelty as entertainment, and a society where it has to be hidden for fear of punishment or public outrage.

 

[jeanne]

Even that says something though. There's a difference between a society where kings and queens sit down to watch legalised torture and animal cruelty as entertainment, and a society where it has to be hidden for fear of punishment or public outrage.

True enough, however, hidden in the darkness it proliferates out of sight and with few social controls.

 

[FootballMom]

Yes I was told by a good friend that it is still open. As for insanity plea, anything is possible but I doubt it will fly, imo.

He's not legally insane. He has mental issues but no mental illness, imo. He left his tracks along the way and he knew exactly what he was doing.

Would a mentally ill person think of sending packages containing body parts of the victim across Canada for shock purposes?

Yes, yes they can... A mentally ill (insane) person who is either on or off their meds can be capable of anything from brushing their teeth to planning & carrying out murder.

I know the majority here would like to believe he is simply a psychopath but I believe his mental health is much more serious and has been neglected for years. See my previous post below with links:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge;INTERPOL alert #7

 

[livingstone]

I for one do not think that that the internet and the selfishness of modern life are breeding killers and psychos at an unprecedented rate

Cannot speak for others, but, I don't quite get the "hysteria" that is an underlying tone in that comment.

It is true that the internet is a unique vehicle for the human psyche. It can be used for good or bad. But, if there is anyone here who thinks the world is going in a healthy and sane direction, and that human nature is not leaning towards depravity.....

Guess I'd have to say that I don't see what you see.

People CAN observe trends without feeding into the "Chicken Little" mentality.

To twist and/or add words to present thought process of rational people and make it sound as if they are hysterical and afraid of their own shadow is ridiculous, IMO of course.

Geez.....

 

[Cappuccino]

True enough, however, hidden in the darkness it proliferates out of sight and with few social controls.

Personally I think having to hide in the darkness is a social control. There will always be deviants and violent behaviour, but its becoming less and less acceptable, at least in the West. Whether that lessens the rate of it or just drives it underground, I don't know.

I was also interested in Pinker's statement about how technology and mass media have widened our "circles of empathy." It seems particularly relevant to this case. We're all concentrating on Magnotta's crime and saying how awful the effects of the internet are, but there are far more of us than there are of him, and we're all here because of the internet too.

ETA - Livingstone you're misreading me. I was just abbreviating a whole series of posts into one sentence, no hysteria or misrepresentation intended.

 

[badhorsie]

Know exactly what you mean, and consequently I have been busy reporting to FB (for what it's worth) some of those involved.

So have I. I wonder if they will take them down? Do you remember the "Raoul Moat you legend" FB page? That is still up, even after the suicide of one of his victims. Zuckerburg should hang his head in shame :furious:

 

[livingstone]

Personally I think having to hide in the darkness is a social control. There will always be deviants and violent behaviour, but its becoming less and less acceptable, at least in the West. Whether that lessens the rate of it or just drives it underground, I don't know.

I was also interested in Pinker's statement about how technology and mass media have widened our "circles of empathy." It seems particularly relevant to this case. We're all concentrating on Magnotta's crime and saying how awful the effects of the internet are, but there are far more of us than there are of him, and we're all here because of the internet too.

ETA - Livingstone you're misreading me. I was just abbreviating a whole series of posts into one sentence, no hysteria or misrepresentation intended.

See what I bolded there? Got it. I now see what you are getting at.

You are correct.

Perhaps it is because while mentioning the negative, not enough contrast was presented as to acknowledge the positive. In that case, and with your clarification, I am now feeling a bit small.

Forgive me. (place simile with band-aid on head here)