ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #9

[Karmady]

@Karmady...yes I agree with you that someone more committed to avoiding an evidence trail would have done things differently. My point remains that I think his haphazard attempt to avoid detection reflects it was not as high of a priority for him, that his narcissistic drive for attention dominated this crime.

Certainly possible. But, once again, I lost track of the original point, lol. Which was that it appears he either DID wear gloves at some point in time or cleaned himself up for the video. I can't remember who all's watched or not. If you watched, did not also notice that his hands were clean? If so, I'm assuming you think he just washed up for "aesthetics"?

 

[Mozzmo]

I've only seen the video once and won't go back again. Strangely, I do think his hands are clean from what little I recall. It appears to me that the neck slash was the manner of death. I don't know enough about cutting throats and blood splatter to know if he would get messy if a fast slice was done? I do know that once the heart stops that cutting tissue is less bloody. Ugh...getting knots in my stomach just thinking about this!

 

[writer7]

I had another thought about why parts may have been edited out. He wants to be seen as a Hannibal Lector type, a killer that does the shocking things seen in horror movies like that, or Basic Instinct, or mob movies.

GRAPHIC:

But what if his actual acts included disgusting things that he didn't want folks to know he got off on? Earlier posts have mentioned some of the vile things he has done for videos and pictures (and johns), yet he didn't publicize those, as far as I am aware. As a matter of fact, he tried to get his lawyer to believe that he was forced to do them (apparently).

I bet he is vain enough to edit those out so that he's seen as the image he wants to project. I bet he is really more vile and foul than we know, really. Just mho!

 

[prima.facie]

GRAPHIC

I've only seen the video once and won't go back again. Strangely, I do think his hands are clean from what little I recall. It appears to me that the neck slash was the manner of death. I don't know enough about cutting throats and blood splatter to know if he would get messy if a fast slice was done? I do know that once the heart stops that cutting tissue is less bloody. Ugh...getting knots in my stomach just thinking about this!

whether or not he was dead before the neck was sliced is impossible to know [for us] at this point....

however, if he slowly sliced the neck, there would be little to no blood spatter....but the neck was sliced on the bed...the evidence of massive amounts of blood beneath and soaked thru the mattress shows this....

with that said, we dont know the steps and precautions he took when slicing the neck....did he put a bag over the head/neck and do it? was it a turkey carver type knife?

we already know parts of the body was at one point in the bathroom due to pieces of skin/blood being found by cleaners....so clearly any mess he made on himself was cleaned up...his hands remained clean the entire time he is seen on the vid....

im also curious, because i cant remember.....did LE search the landfill of where the trash was taken....how much evidence was thrown away and taken away and now being burried amongst all the other trash?

 

[writer7]

I've only seen the video once and won't go back again. Strangely, I do think his hands are clean from what little I recall. It appears to me that the neck slash was the manner of death. I don't know enough about cutting throats and blood splatter to know if he would get messy if a fast slice was done? I do know that once the heart stops that cutting tissue is less bloody. Ugh...getting knots in my stomach just thinking about this!

GRAPHIC:

Didn't he rinse some parts in the bath? He may have rituals that won't make a dang bit of sense to us. Certain sexual oddities can have rituals that are strange like you find in very bad Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (obviously a different sort of acts, but the ritualizing can be kind of similar!).

 

[Scientific]

Could it be that the wounds seem to disappear because the video is low quality footage and/or Luka used an ice pick, a weapon that would not have left gaping, bloody wounds? I don't know how feasible this is, partly because I haven't watched the video, only read descriptions and saw a few stills.

Ya know it is interesting you should mention that because the lack of blood on his hands did seem unusual given the circumstances.

Another interesting thing I observed is the appearance & disappearance of some significant wounds on the body... even when he was making a sweeping motion with the camera; no stopping & starting.

He either photoshopped the actual film in some parts or cleaned the body very well and some of the wounds somehow magically appeared healed or invisible in some frames & while others remained.

I made non-graphic illustrations noting the time stamps if anyone is interested and if the MODS approve; I will post.

As an example; I also made one for the pubic hair noting when it was evident and when it disappeared. I'll admit the first time I saw the video I thought it was two different people (the alive victim appeared thinner) and when the hair disappeared it just looked uuummm... different...

 

[Chorley8]

i have a silly question to ask: why the crime scene is not protected? the sofa, bed dumped,the blood cleaned...arent they the most direct and valuable evidence?

Silly? It is a great question.

 

[FootballMom]

Could it be that the wounds seem to disappear because the video is low quality footage and/or Luka used an ice pick, a weapon that would not have left gaping, bloody wounds? I don't know how feasible this is, partly because I haven't watched the video, only read descriptions and saw a few stills.

GRAPHIC...

Nope... it is way obvious... in one frame there are bloody wounds then no blood or open wounds at all in the next... it is really very odd... It is possible that one or two are from stopping & starting but it doesn't make sense that he rearranged the order of the clips or photoshopped out some wounds & not others.

I also noticed that (I hate to say this)... he stabbed him in the left eye repeatedly but not the right eye... we never see the left side of his face after his head is removed & cleaned off... he only shows the right side of his face.

 

[otto]

Seriously, does anyone know the name of his dog (from the video)?

No. Unless someone comes forward to police to explain adopting the dog, it is unexplained. If there is no trace of the dog, it's likely that the dog was put out with the garbage ... along with body parts of Lin Jun.

 

[otto]

This has crossed my mind.... What if Lin Jun died of an overdose of drug not given by Luka. I don't believe it BUT what if LM tries to use that story since everyone who has seen the vid say it does not seem to be Lin Jun at the beginning. Do you see Lin Jun alive at any point in the vid? If you don't perhaps he will plead he didn't kill him.

From police reports, the video they have is a RAW (unedited) film of the murder with original audio. Lin Jun is the victim. He was alive at the beginning of the film and at the end he is being sliced and eaten. Chances are that there is no question that he is the victim.

He may have agreed to the film production and he may have agreed to being tied up, but shortly after being tied up he appeared to be playful, coy and seductive. Clearly he did not intend to die that night. At the end, we have a suitcase with a torso. Eric Newman can plead whatever he wants ... but he is not going to be released ever again. There is no question that he and the victim had contact prior to the murder.

As an aside, I'm surprised at how many people want to discuss the salacious details of the murder. To see how mundane it is, read James Marrison. The Mark Twitchells and Eric Newmans of the world are nothing new ... sick, twisted, movie making wannabes ... and who really cares what made them who they are today

 

[comfort80]

I would love to know why the judge in Toronto imposed in his sentence that he was not allowed to own and use a camera, a computer, etc. Would be interesting to see what the court transcripts for that case was. Unfortunately, unlike the U.S. these are public records BUT you have to send in a request to perhaps "purchase"? this.

i apologize if this has been said before, but I'm guessing he took photos of credit cards, or check books, and used the internet to buy things like Versace shirts.

 

[CuriousRus]

@Karmady...yes I agree with you that someone more committed to avoiding an evidence trail would have done things differently. My point remains that I think his haphazard attempt to avoid detection reflects it was not as high of a priority for him, that his narcissistic drive for attention dominated this crime.

Or he's just a complete idiot.

 

[Chorley8]

The human remains found near Paris were at the Bois de Vicnennes, which is very different from what you describe. It's a very popular family park where the Paris Zoo is located.

1. Does anyone have a link to the newspaper story about the corpse in Vincennes (I am assuming Vincennes now though I am certain someone here said Boulogne) I have not seen the article. I can read French if in French.

2. Google Prostitution Paris Vincennes and your idyllic picture of Vincennes will be shattered prostitution is rampant there too. "autre bois autre moeurs" it says it is more Africans rather than South Americans also "tapins" hustlers I assume that means men. Your point about the zoo is interesting given the photos online of LM.

 

[CuriousRus]

i apologize if this has been said before, but I'm guessing he took photos of credit cards, or check books, and used the internet to buy things like Versace shirts.

I can't help but wonder if the Versace murder was what attracted him so much to the brand. I also wonder if he was smoking crystal meth. or maybe has untreated syphilis. It could be so many external catalysts, combined with an unstable upbringing and possibly genetics, that created what we see today.

 

[Karmady]

I can't help but wonder if the Versace murder was what attracted him so much to the brand. I also wonder if he was smoking crystal meth. or maybe has untreated syphilis. It could be so many external catalysts, combined with an unstable upbringing and possibly genetics, that created what we see today.

Funny you mention meth. I posted a Huffpo article with today's date on it in the wrong thread a little bit ago, but didn't re-post it here when I realized my mistake because, upon reading it, it seemed to be mostly old news (with old comments) that had merely been updated. However, I noted that Nina was quoted as saying he used meth. I hadn't seen that in her prior interview(s), but maybe I missed it.

 

[Dane]

No. Unless someone comes forward to police to explain adopting the dog, it is unexplained. If there is no trace of the dog, it's likely that the dog was put out with the garbage ... along with body parts of Lin Jun.

A good Sunday morning to all from Denmark.

WARNING: GRAPHIC

Re. the unfortunate puppy - one can hope that it indeed was put to sleep and disposed of in the garbage. And subsequently found by LE. Upon further examination it will have had LRM's DNA all over itself (since he was handling it gloveless, and the apartment would be full of his DNA as it were, dead skin cells, hair/body hair etc.), and it would still have parts of the victim in it's digestive tract. That way at least it's senseless death may shed light on the horrid fate of Lin Jun and further cement the guilt of LRM by placing him and the pup in the video, directly in the scene of the crime.
I have complete faith in criminal forensic investigation techniques these days. LE was at the crime scene collecting for what, 14 hours? And they can determine a presence from merely a few skin cells on a cigarette butt or cup etc. I find it hard to believe that LRM will have succeeded in removing every single trace of himself... he would have had to torch the place or the like. He is all over. In big, fat, bold letters. JMO here.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just chiming in here with a couple of unrelated thoughts / questions that i'm pondering:

Does anyone think LE has ruled out the other men ahead of LRM in the airport security video as being acquaintances or travelling companions of LRM? (Reason i ask is the LRM Twitter account was following a fellow who is similar in appearance to one of them and he lives in France.)

On another note, has anyone given any thought to WHY LRM left Paris to go to Berlin, and WHERE he may have been heading had he not been arrested in Berlin?

 

[CuriousRus]

Funny you mention meth. I posted a Huffpo article with today's date on it in the wrong thread a little bit ago, but didn't re-post it here when I realized my mistake because, upon reading it, it seemed to be mostly old news (with old comments) that had merely been updated. However, I noted that Nina was quoted as saying he used meth. I hadn't seen that in her prior interview(s), but maybe I missed it.

If he was smoking meth, that would be enough to explain a lot of it for me. My only true experience of someone having a psychotic episode was with a friend of mine who I had no idea was even using. He was "normal", good job, clean cut, nice home, etc etc. We were neighbors a few streets apart and had met through mutual friends. We hung out, had BBQs, pubs, the usual stuff friends do.

He came over to my house once all paranoid and telling me that his neighbors had it in for him and that he had to move. He was telling me that he could hear them talking about him while he was in his bedroom and he feared they were going to come get him like vigilantes would get a bank robber in the old west.

I had to play emergency psychologist because he scared the crap out of me when he told me that he had a gun under his bed and would use it if he felt anyone would take it further than talking. I managed to calm him down and ask questions to try to use logic with him, but every time I went down the logical route to get to the root of his insanity, he only became a little more agitated and off topic.

Not knowing he was using, I obviously began to think that he was on something if not then, but maybe when he was at home. He really appeared relatively normal but seriously upset. So, finally, I just asked about using in a sort of indirect way and then he acknowledged he had a "couple of times". Based on what I hear, most people don't just use crystal meth a "couple of times." Then I said, "I'm not talking about you, but do you think it is possible that drugs can make someone think something that isn't real?" He agreed, but still I couldn't get him to acknowledge that maybe it was drugs that made him believe the neighbors were out to get him. I also noticed that everything he said the neighbors were saying were the things in his life he was ashamed of, that was very clear to me in our talk. I did find out he was surprisingly in therapy and I happened to know his medical doctor's name via playing detective, so as soon as he calmed down and I told him he could always call me if he felt threatened again, I managed to get ahold of his doctor and therapist. Then the big debate was whether or not to call the police. Neither therapist or doctor knew he was using and weren't really helpful to be quite honest. Both tried to shift the decision on me as to whether or not call the police. The doc said that if I felt anyone was in immediate harm, that I should call. I did not and he did not hurt anyone. However, in hindsight, I think I should have called the police. Anyway he then quickly sold his home and moved within two weeks.

Fast forward two years or so later. He came back to the area for a visit with friends and popped in for a visit. He told me that what he had experienced was some sort of brain virus that he developed as a result of some other medical issue he had that went undetected due to some medication he was taking. My inner voice said, yeah, that and your crystal meth. Talk about messy. Anyway, the point is that someone who can appear completely normal, clean cut, etc., can be complete time bomb. If LM was using meth, that might explain much of this.

 

[gngr~snap]

If he was smoking meth, that would be enough to explain a lot of it for me. My only true experience of someone having a psychotic episode was with a friend of mine who I had no idea was even using. He was "normal", good job, clean cut, nice home, etc etc. We were neighbors a few streets apart and had met through mutual friends. We hung out, had BBQs, pubs, the usual stuff friends do.

He came over to my house once all paranoid and telling me that his neighbors had it in for him and that he had to move. He was telling me that he could hear them talking about him while he was in his bedroom and he feared they were going to come get him like vigilantes would get a bank robber in the old west.

I had to play emergency psychologist because he scared the crap out of me when he told me that he had a gun under his bed and would use it if he felt anyone would take it further than talking. I managed to calm him down and ask questions to try to use logic with him, but every time I went down the logical route to get to the root of his insanity, he only became a little more agitated and off topic.

Not knowing he was using, I obviously began to think that he was on something if not then, but maybe when he was at home. He really appeared relatively normal but seriously upset. So, finally, I just asked about using in a sort of indirect way and then he acknowledged he had a "couple of times". Based on what I hear, most people don't just use crystal meth a "couple of times." Then I said, "I'm not talking about you, but do you think it is possible that drugs can make someone think something that isn't real?" He agreed, but still I couldn't get him to acknowledge that maybe it was drugs that made him believe the neighbors were out to get him. I also noticed that everything he said the neighbors were saying were the things in his life he was ashamed of, that was very clear to me in our talk. I did find out he was surprisingly in therapy and I happened to know his medical doctor's name via playing detective, so as soon as he calmed down and I told him he could always call me if he felt threatened again, I managed to get ahold of his doctor and therapist. Then the big debate was whether or not to call the police. Neither therapist or doctor knew he was using and weren't really helpful to be quite honest. Both tried to shift the decision on me as to whether or not call the police. The doc said that if I felt anyone was in immediate harm, that I should call. I did not and he did not hurt anyone. However, in hindsight, I think I should have called the police. Anyway he then quickly sold his home and moved within two weeks.

Fast forward two years or so later. He came back to the area for a visit with friends and popped in for a visit. He told me that what he had experienced was some sort of brain virus that he developed as a result of some other medical issue he had that went undetected due to some medication he was taking. My inner voice said, yeah, that and your crystal meth. Talk about messy. Anyway, the point is that someone who can appear completely normal, clean cut, etc., can be complete time bomb. If LM was using meth, that might explain much of this.

Hmm... in my experience with meth addicts... SEVERAL of my neighbors got involved and "hooked" about 10 years ago...

They disassembled and reassembled (nit always successfully I might add!) EVERYTHING! lawn mowers, shower heads, electronic equip... They pulled the wiring out of the walls in their homes... removed the kitchen sinks, the showers, the washing machine and dryers.... they smashed their cable boxes ( they thought the little red light was recording their every move!!!)

LM COULD have been on meth but meth heads are para-NOID! I just cannot see him recording his "business" a psychotic meth head already "knows" he is being recorded.... watched by the FBI, CIA, KGB... whatever!

I see it can be sexual compulsion as well though so maybe it affected him differently!

Paranoia: The individual has extreme suspicion of others, their actions or perceived intentions. For example, a user sees a duck on the river and thinks the police have placed a camera in the duck to watch him.

Obsessions:"According to MacKenzie and Heischober (1997), compulsion or repetitive behaviors are manifestations of chronic meth use. Users may become obsessed or perform repetitive tasks such as cleaning, assembling and disassembling objects or washing hands several times in a 15 minute period. Other repetitive tasks include formication, grinding of teeth, and pulling out hair. MacKenzie and Heischober (1997) recommend careful evaluation of patients who have histories of any compulsive behaviors, including compulsive sexual behaviors."
http://www.rnceus.com/meth/methpsych.html

I was thinking more about the "newer" drugs on the scene Math has been around a LONG time! Add recent surge of face eating dismembering bodies and boiling of people... it could be a new drug or just that some people do it So LONG before imploding that it does get to that point!
moo

 

[writer7]

From police reports, the video they have is a RAW (unedited) film of the murder with original audio. Lin Jun is the victim. He was alive at the beginning of the film and at the end he is being sliced and eaten. Chances are that there is no question that he is the victim.

He may have agreed to the film production and he may have agreed to being tied up, but shortly after being tied up he appeared to be playful, coy and seductive. Clearly he did not intend to die that night. At the end, we have a suitcase with a torso. Eric Newman can plead whatever he wants ... but he is not going to be released ever again. There is no question that he and the victim had contact prior to the murder.

As an aside, I'm surprised at how many people want to discuss the salacious details of the murder. To see how mundane it is, read James Marrison. The Mark Twitchells and Eric Newmans of the world are nothing new ... sick, twisted, movie making wannabes ... and who really cares what made them who they are today

No, he doesn't sound like the most twisted by far The details only matter to me to try to help prevent and/or help solve other crimes. The idea I had about checking the cookware came from a different hideous crime, and it made me think that folks might want to be on the lookout for a skull.

That's a bad example, because nothing has come from it. Still, folks noticing so many details really did ID Eric very quickly, and this board has really helped solve crimes.

As for myself, I seriously considered getting a masters in the whys of this, and in how to spot this before it happens. I suppose mostly I'm just interested in humankind learning what to do to stop this sort of thing. I won't be the one to do it, but it still is a big interest of mine.