ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge;INTERPOL alert #6

[otto]

I dont believe ALL Canadians support that, in fact there are many fine Canadians right here in this thread who have said otherwise. So the big picture is not that Canadians wont tolerate it but rather that certain Canadians, typically the ones who are intolerant of just about anything that they dont like or agree with including homosexuality, a woman's right to choose and other controversial issues, do not tolerate it. And that is really no surprise as they are usually the same people who are trying to tell everyone else how they should live, what they should like and what they should be allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Fortunately for them, there is the rest of us, who work tirelessly to fight for the right for people to believe whatever they want and to express those beliefs so that even if we dont agree with intolerance we fight for them to have the right to be intolerant anyway.

I'm not convinced that many a Canadian would agree that the videos of the torture and murder of Leslie Mahaffy, Kristen French, Jessica Lloyd, or Cpl. Marie-France Comeau should be posted on the internet. In fact, there was no opposition to have those videos destroyed when the application was presented in Court. These is nothing to be gained by making the video of the torture and murder of anyone available to everyone except that it will make the murderers very happy.

It is not true that intolerant people are the only people that do not want the videos produced by Russell Williams and Paul Bernardo posted on the internet.

 

[Jujercu]

Re: Mr. Lin- First, I am sorry when any human loses their life. Human life has value. There is no such thing as “acceptable” murder.

In this case we see an individual, (Mr. Lin) for whatever reason, and like hundreds of thousands of others, sought out sexual trysts on the internet. (his right and privilege as an adult) I am certain that he met the perp on the web. In such cases where a person chooses to meet up with a stranger, it is a possibility they may meet a disturbed person who could kill them. The chances are slim, but it has happened before, as you all know.

This does not mean the victim is to be blamed. However, it does mean that when this man (Mr. Lin) agreed to meet up with the perp, he took that risk.

It must be admitted that I do have different “levels” of sympathy…For right or wrong. When I was exposed to crime, I did not react the same when I saw a murder, of say a gang member, who was participating in activities that had great risk, as I did seeing a crime with a child or adult who was I will call a “wholly innocent” human being.

That said, with the killing of what I will call a “wholly innocent” I sympathize differently.

I can understand those who mentioned they had a stronger emotional reaction to the kittens. I agree with those on this board who said that this is perfectly normal. For reasons already stated by others, and I believe here, there is nothing wrong with this. And, if there are those who react stronger to the human killing rather than the kittens….. that’s fine too. These are personal matters that we must reckon on our own. Same goes for viewing the video/s.

That concludes my analysis. I would be curious and interested as to what others may care to add. If not, it was great to follow your threads as I have from the beginning.

Now on a more personal note:

There are some posters who I especially enjoy reading.

“It puts the lotion in the basket” Very good Gypsy Road. I thought so too. Exactly. Ha Ha…….

revampz , have enjoyed your levelheaded comments.

And others too.

Thank you.

Well said.

 

[elizabethie]

Karla Homolka was accused of drugging her own sister, Tammy, and performing "acts" on her.... Interesting that either LRM or others are alledging that Luka MAY have done the same or something similar to his mother's sister. (the A Yourkin previously mentioned).

 

[PAXIMUS]

I think both sides of this debate has made excellent points and none of this is personal, we all agree LM is a monster and we all hope he is punished for it, I dont want to try and make everyone agree with me I am only sharing what I believe to be important and I know others are doing the same. That said we should probably move on or take this somewhere else before we get slapped by a mod.

 

[Jujercu]

:truce::truce:

I think both sides of this debate has made excellent points and none of this is personal, we all agree LM is a monster and we all hope he is punished for it, I dont want to try and make everyone agree with me I am only sharing what I believe to be important and I know others are doing the same. That said we should probably move on or take this somewhere else before we get slapped by a mod.

 

[magpie8]

I'd like to quote passionflower from the last thread, as she raised a good question, but since it has been closed, I cannot.

No matter how much analysis is done here (and it's been extremely impressive--I thank you for it), I think that in the end, all we will learn is the crushingly depressing fact that monsters live among us. Always have, and likely always will. It's even somewhat of a misnomer to call them 'monsters', or even evil, IMO.

For being capable of evil, to me, means that you grasp the difference between good and bad. I don't know Eric Newman any more than I do Paul Bernardo, Karla Homolka, Jeffrey Dahmer, or the inumerable other seeming psychopaths who have committed such heinous crimes, not to mention the ones who walk among us still. But it appears to me that questioning 'why?' is unfortunately fruitless. These people are clearly born without the ability to feel empathy, sympathy, remorse, or any of the related emotions which cause the overwhelming rest of us pain, pause and preventive behaviour.

Lord knows I don't want to launch an abortion debate (I'm personally conflicted on the matter, but respect any other adult's right to choose). But I do know that work is being done to isolate the psychopathy/sociopathy gene. Perhaps that prenatal filtering process would prove the only way to remove the Luka Magnottas from our midst before they have a chance to inflict such horror on others.

Rehabilitation seems sadly impossible, on the other hand.

 

[Fl Breeze]

Victims rights are a very tricky thing, while I do understand that a video like this hurts the family and other loved ones, you simply cannot sacrifice the larger issue of a free and uncensored internet in order to prevent individual people from being offended or hurt by something.


In this case the smaller issue of victims rights is sadly less important than the larger issue of a free and uncensored internet because it isnt just about a free and uncensored internet, those who wish to take that away from us would only use that as a starting point to push another even more perverted agenda, that of a war against the very notion of a free society itself.

There has never been a totally free society, that would be a lawless anarchy.

 

[otto]

I understand your point but you have no such right, nowhere in any law book or statute in any nation I am aware of, is there such a right. You know when you go on the internet that there are bad things on there and you use it anyway, to suggest you have a RIGHT to not expect that is really absurd. Youre smarter than that, no such right exists, people use the word RIGHT a little too loosely, rights are in things like the bill of rights and constitutions and nowhere is such a right given or implied.


You are suggesting by saying that that you also have a right to go out in public and not see bad things, which is just..absurd my friend. There is no such right anywhere granted to any human being.

In the US, people have the right to use the internet but the government has the right to search it without permission or a court order. In Canada, that can't happen. Rights in the US and Canada are different, so if you're debating from the US, then you would have different points than if you were debating from Canada. In Canada, there is legal precedent such that Canadians want snuff films destroyed, not published.

\What benefit is there to anyone to have the murder and torture videos of the victims of Paul Bernardo, Russell Williams and Eric Newman published?

 

[susan1122]

CBC News Alerts ‏@CBCAlerts
Family of murder victim Jun Lin meets with Montreal police .Police: family has gone through 'horrible episode.'


So sad. My heart breaks for the family. :cry:

Me, too....just thinking of Jun's family makes me want to cry. Ugh. So heart breaking. This is unimaginable......to have a loved one go through that kind of murder. And the family that has to go through the aftermath. It's just too sad and horrible.

 

[DD_bwest]

I think both sides of this debate has made excellent points and none of this is personal, we all agree LM is a monster and we all hope he is punished for it, I dont want to try and make everyone agree with me I am only sharing what I believe to be important and I know others are doing the same. That said we should probably move on or take this somewhere else before we get slapped by a mod.

i was just about to to say, while i love a good political debate, maybe this debate deserves a thread of its own? im not sure hows mods look at that stuff, as that subject can get rather heated and opinionated..

 

[OEJ]

There's nothing important about that detail. We know Lin Jun was alive until at least 9pm on the 24th when he left a text message for a friend.

Yes it is important. I'd like to establish the timeline for Jun Lin. Victimology is always important in understanding crime.

 

[Dushi]

All I can say is a family has lost a beloved member, someone who was important to them, in a most horrendous way

I will gladly give up all rights to view this video , freely.
I feel that these innocent people are being victimized again, for the rights of others to view someone being tortured and killed


JMO

 

[SilkySifaka]

As far as I am concerned bravo to those who had the courage to view the video and help us who didn't understand what was being done, who this man was and what level of evil he was.

You did most of us a service, especially those who knew they couldn't handle it. The poster who transcribed it for us did an extra service as well.

To suggest these people who wanted to help find and catch a monster are just looky loos wanting titillation is so unfair and so wrong.

And yes...victims often lose rights..their murder photos and videos are shown to the public in courtrooms around the country and in some cases televised to the world outside the country. We have all seen situations like this.

But here..the movie was on the web, it isn't a question of should it be put on it..that answer i think is no for most of us. GIVEN that it is available, was used as a tool in making this case become an international manhunt by many ws'ers it is just not right to demean those who spent so many hours on this case from day 1.

 

[Cappuccino]

I don't think anybody has a right to watch somebody else's murder, or the desecration of a murder victim's corpse by the killer. There is no larger issue of freedom here, the rights that are paramount are those of Jun Lin and his family. This video revictimises those people every time its watched, and those websites hosting it should be prosecuted for it.

Or to put it another way, your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

 

[jeanne]

Yes it is important. I'd like to establish the timeline for Jun Lin. Victimology is always important in understanding crime.

I totally agree. Timeline is important. But the fact that he logged onto his computer at 8:54 am on the morning of the 24th is not an important detail as it is known he showed up at his job later in the day, left it around 5pm AND communicated with his friends up to 9pm. This is known. Lets put our efforts into shoaring what has yet to be discovered.

 

[otto]

I think both sides of this debate has made excellent points and none of this is personal, we all agree LM is a monster and we all hope he is punished for it, I dont want to try and make everyone agree with me I am only sharing what I believe to be important and I know others are doing the same. That said we should probably move on or take this somewhere else before we get slapped by a mod.

Current articles related to this case are about whether the video produced during the murder should have been removed from the Edmonton website where it was published. The owner of the site believes it's his right to publish the material and it seems that investigators disagree.

 

[muse98]

Miami Zombies, Florida Vampires, and Snuff Films

We'll start things off by briefly examining the religious and mythological significance of cannibalism throughout the ages. Of cannibalism, the legendary anthropologist James George Frazer states:

"Strange as it may seem to us, one motive which induces a savage warrior to eat the flesh or drink the blood of the foe whom he has slain appears to be a wish to form an indissoluble covenant of friendship and brotherhood with his victim. For it is a widespread belief among savages that by transfusing a little of their blood into each other's bodies two men become kinsmen and allies; the same blood now circulating in the veins of both, neither can injure the other without at the same time injuring himself; the two have therefore given each other the strongest bond, the best possible hostages, for their good behaviour. Acting on this theory, the primitive warrior seeks to convert his slain for into the firmest of friends by imbibing the dead man's blood or swallowing his flesh."
(The Golden Bough, pg. 518)

Legendary mythologist Joseph Campbell goes further than Frazer and breaks the act of cannibalism down to its Archetypal core:

"We all know the fairy tale of the witch who lives in a candy house that would be nice to eat. Indeed, we have seen already what a scare she gave to a child who conjured her up in play. She is kind to children and invites them into her tasty house only because she wants to eat them. She is a cannibal. (And for some six hundred thousand years of human experience cannibals, it should be born in mind --and even cannibal mothers --were grim and gruesome, ever-present realities.) Cannibal ogresses appear in the folklore of peoples, high and low, throughout the world; and on the mythological level the archetype is even more magnified into a universal symbol in such cannibal-mother goddesses as the Hindu Kali, the 'Black One,' who is personified of 'all-consuming Time'; or in the medieval European figure of the consumer of the wicked dead, the female mouth and belly of Hel."
(The Masks of God Volume I, pg. 68)

One of the most curious instances of recent cannibalism comes from Canada, once again. It involves the bisexual *advertiser censored* actor Luka Magnotta, who was just recently arrested on June 4, 2012, in Germany. He stands accused of murdering, dismembering, and eating parts of a Chinese man...

more at http://visupview.blogspot.com/2012/06/miami-zombies-florida-vampires-and.html

 

[matou]

CBC right now reporting that police are looking into the possibility that Magnotta may have met Jun Lin at his work.

 

[BorgQueen]

As we begin a new thread, let's all take a moment to remember the victim of this senseless crime, Jun/Justin Lin

Reposting this before I play catch up.

:angel:

 

[matou]

CBC news: Police stating that the parts were wrapped in plastic and then sent to Ottawa. Police are saying that the time for parcels to arrive would be ending now and that they don`t think the head was mailed (or other parts sent in the mail).