Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #1

[concernedperson]

Fran, that was an incredible synopsis. You are great with details that I had forgotten. Kudos to you!!!!

 

[Rosco]

OMG Fran... You have summed most/if not all in a nut-shell {{ for me }}

Justice for Natalee....

Rosco

 

[PandaJ]

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm actually playing with the thought that Joran really WAS telling the truth in this latest interview, to threaten the guy he supposedly sold Natalee to into giving him more money. He may have planned it out this way - to give Greta this interview spilling all, then he goes and calls up the mystery guy and tells him what he did, but that he can reverse it by saying it was all a lie if the guy wires him more money. Maybe he never admitted it in the first place because he enjoyed the money way too much and knew they could never prove he killed Natalee.

I can't help but hope that Joran dug himself a huge hole this time...maybe he wasn't thinking that Greta would follow up on EVERYTHING, especially after calling her to say it was just a lie....maybe he wasn't anticipating that she would actually air the interview anyway and continue to try to corroborate his story.

IMO it's either that scenario, or he is just pure EVIL for doing this to the Holloways again. I really can't wait until this heartless is behind bars.

jmo

 

[fran]

I truly would like to believe that Natalee is alive and that Joran was telling the truth. But the fact is, I do NOT believe him,............that he gave her 'alive' to someone. He came up with that story because he's read it on the internet. Sorry, IMHO, it's true.

There are several people who have thrown this and that scenario around, until they think up something that sounds POSSIBLE. There's some things they've come up with that they've spouted all over the internet about the family, hoping that if they say it enough times, people will believe them. Sadly, there are some who do believe them too............Anything to disparge the family AND the victim. Even more sad, is the 'powers that be' in Aruba, have managed to pay off enough people on that island to 'swear' to things that happened on the island during the search for Natalee. ANYTHING to discredit Natalee and her family, most specifically Beth, to make it appear the family is behind the whole thing and EVERYONE in Aruba was innocent.

FWIW, there was a young woman on another Carribbean Island who disappeared, a Dutch protected island, I believe. That case was solved by listening to phone calls of the accused. You see, unlike the Holloway case, the suspect was not told in advance his calls would be listened to, ('you forgot they had the phones tapped, dummy!' (or something like that, J to D)), the suspect was a local AND the victim was DUTCH. It made HUGE headlines in Holland and they SOLVED the case............there were NO friends of the accused in the police department, there were no judge friends, there were no casino owner friends, the PM didn't get on radio and proclaim 'if something happened to ................... on the island, it could damage tourisim.' There was no increase in locals deaths, that I've heard of,......there was no huge American personalities to follow through and expose the misdeeds. That's because there wasn't protection of the accused,.............because it was one of 'their own,' who was murdered and a 'local' who committed the crime.

IMHO, the Holloway case will NEVER be solved and there will NOT be justice for Natalee.

My heart aches for Natalee's family and friends. It's too saddddd..........too sadddddddd.

JMHO
fran

PS.....thanks CP. This case has always had my heart.....I have a daughter just like Natalee......Thank goodness this wasn't me in place of Beth. fran

 

[sabego]

Fran, you are TOO GOOD! That sums it up better than any I have seen! Keep up the good work! You are really appreciated.

Sabego

 

[MvD]

I would love to hear this 'chip' also.. but I would almost BET that any reference Paul makes to 'trafficking' , he is talking about Joran's Thailand escapades... and for whatever reason, Joran is playing it off as trafficking Natalee. IMO, Joran looked higher than a kite in that interview.. I still do not believe a word of what he said in the interview.. Im just still trying to figure out what his agenda was for doing it.. I keep hearing he was paid for the interview.. but then Fox supposedly DOES NOT pay for them.. so Im wondering if the "chip" was bought from Joran for alot of $$$ and thats the whole reason he came up with this load of BS.. just for the cash. You noticed Greta/Fox bleeped out the names of the cops that were supposedly paid off.. Does anyone know why they would do that..? If it was because Joran recanted his tale.. and they didnt want to be held libel for naming paid off cops.. then they shouldnt have aired the entire interview.. Does anyone know which cops/LE he named? maybe I was tired but it looked like they blurred his mouth so you couldnt even "read" his lips when they bleeped out the names.
There should be phone records that show exactly who Joran called that night.. I *THOUGHT* we'd heard of all the calls... and there was never any mention of some random guy..
I had always believed that Joran did not kill Natalee.. that one of the Kalpoe brothers did.. (thus the Steve Crues connection) Even now I still wonder if Joran is trying to illicit the Kalpoes to talk.. or if he has just become so mean and bitter.. and desperate to make a buck.. that he is on a really quick course to self destruction.. mentally and physically. What I saw last night was NOT the same guy I watched on Greta's January 2006 interview... If he doesnt OD himself.. he's gonna get himself murdered soon..
I dont know what to think anymore..

 

[mollie]

Fran you are unbelievable, the amount of detail you put in to that recap is amazing! Brought up things even I don't remember, and believe me, I've followed this case through all various sources, valid, and some not so valid. It just gripped me.

Call me naive, but this one part I didn't remember:

There were two bank withdrawals from an atm that morning,..........but it can't be verified because the young woman who was bank manager mysteriously died about two weeks into this saga.

So, because the manager died, there was no other way to track it? Are you saying all records were erased?

 

[richandfamous]

True or not...he's a dead man walking and "someone" should corner him and get some facts out of him before he is gone!

 

[fran]

Fran you are unbelievable, the amount of detail you put in to that recap is amazing! Brought up things even I don't remember, and believe me, I've followed this case through all various sources, valid, and some not so valid. It just gripped me.

Call me naive, but this one part I didn't remember:



So, because the manager died, there was no other way to track it? Are you saying all records were erased?

Right out of the gate on this case, there was 'rumor' of TWO 4:00a.m. withdrawals (by PVDS) from the atm. If you've followed the case, you remember PVDS was questioned about his trips (multiple!) the following day to the bank. He said the first time he went, he forgot something or didn't have enough time or sorry, can't recall EXACT reason he had to 'abort' the first trip. But then he said he did go at a certain time later in the day. I do NOT KNOW if there is a written record of his transactions that day and there is NO WITNESS. she, ehhhh....died.

You see, IF Aruba would CLOSE the Holloway case, per JohnQ, the Holloways would be able to get all of the investigative documents. But low and behold, the day after Aruba announced they were closing the Holloway case and JohnQ got on U.S. tv and said, 'good, then they will be able to get the records,' the very next day ANOTHER spokesman from Aruba said Mos was mistaken, they are NOT closing the Holloway file, just the three suspects as suspects.

Gggrrrr
fran

PS....seeee....'rumor' of atm 4a.m. withdrawal by PVDS AND a witness who saw him at 4a.m. BUT all of that has disappeared!

Dompig tells U.S. tv that they have enough evidence to convict the trio of at the least rape (as Natalee was going in and out of consciousness and Joran AND Deepak admitted to sexual activity) BUT then the next day Dompig tells the Aruban press there is NO evidence or admission of sexual activity.

Cohen, spokesman for the Aruban Tourist Bureau tells U.S. tv that Joran and K2 will be hauled back in for questioning. The next day they tell the U.S. news agency that he was mistaken, that they will only come back in for questioning if they WANT TO!

Ohhhhh.........BELIEVE ME! I have more!.................fran

 

[PattyCake]

I would love to hear this 'chip' also.. but I would almost BET that any reference Paul makes to 'trafficking' , he is talking about Joran's Thailand escapades... and for whatever reason, Joran is playing it off as trafficking Natalee. IMO, Joran looked higher than a kite in that interview.. I still do not believe a word of what he said in the interview.. Im just still trying to figure out what his agenda was for doing it.. I keep hearing he was paid for the interview.. but then Fox supposedly DOES NOT pay for them.. so Im wondering if the "chip" was bought from Joran for alot of $$$ and thats the whole reason he came up with this load of BS.. just for the cash. You noticed Greta/Fox bleeped out the names of the cops that were supposedly paid off.. Does anyone know why they would do that..? If it was because Joran recanted his tale.. and they didnt want to be held libel for naming paid off cops.. then they shouldnt have aired the entire interview.. Does anyone know which cops/LE he named? maybe I was tired but it looked like they blurred his mouth so you couldnt even "read" his lips when they bleeped out the names.
There should be phone records that show exactly who Joran called that night.. I *THOUGHT* we'd heard of all the calls... and there was never any mention of some random guy..
I had always believed that Joran did not kill Natalee.. that one of the Kalpoe brothers did.. (thus the Steve Crues connection) Even now I still wonder if Joran is trying to illicit the Kalpoes to talk.. or if he has just become so mean and bitter.. and desperate to make a buck.. that he is on a really quick course to self destruction.. mentally and physically. What I saw last night was NOT the same guy I watched on Greta's January 2006 interview... If he doesnt OD himself.. he's gonna get himself murdered soon..
I dont know what to think anymore..

That cannot be the case. THIS interview was made with Greta LONG before anyone knew about Thailand at all. This was early in the year of 2008 this interview was made. So it's not possible.

 

[Nikki 01]

That cannot be the case. THIS interview was made with Greta LONG before anyone knew about Thailand at all. This was early in the year of 2008 this interview was made. So it's not possible.

That's correct, but we don't know how long Joran has been involved in trafficking. I think whatever Paulus' comments are that they are likely taken out of context and don't have anything to do with Natalee. I hope Greta lets us hear them.

 

[6angels]

Why is he not arrested. I dont get it.

 

[T-Rex]

Sounds like he's totally toying with her (Greta), and she's a willing partner. He finds it entertaining, and she finds it profitable.

 

[PoppyMcTwist]

I agree with the thought that Joran always adds a little truth to whatever story he is telling. IMO this time, the "true" part is that his father was involved in a cover up.

The one teeny tiny bit of Joran's story that made sense to me was that the "selling" of Natalee may explain why no trace of her has been found (that we know of). I know there are other explanations -- tides, currents, etc -- but I've always thought it was strange that not even a flip-flop was found (again, that we know of ).

I have a question:

Has it ever been confirmed that it was Paulus in the casino surveillance tape playing poker? I can't remember if he was sitting near Natalee or not, but whoever it was looked SO much like him. Just wonderin'.



IMO

 

[PoppyMcTwist]

Sounds like he's totally toying with her (Greta), and she's a willing partner. He finds it entertaining, and she finds it profitable.

I'm a little disappointed in Greta.

Unless she knows more than she is telling, it seems she was willing to put the Holloway family (and everyone else) back on the emotional roller coaster -- all for the sake of ratings.

Who knows? Maybe she DOES know more, but right now I'm thinking she did a very cruel thing.

Not nice, Greta.

IMO

 

[harleysnana]

I'm a little disappointed in Greta.

Unless she knows more than she is telling, it seems she was willing to put the Holloway family (and everyone else) back on the emotional roller coaster -- all for the sake of ratings.

Who knows? Maybe she DOES know more, but right now I'm thinking she did a very cruel thing.

Not nice, Greta.

IMO

I don't usually watch Greta because until last week we didn't have the station.
She said over and over that she was going to investigate the info
Joran was giving her.
Is she the type to do that?

If so then I think she will be able to find out if any of it is true!
She had him give his attorney permission to talk to her about this and
he even gave her the wire transfer number etc. to show the two large “payments”.

If any of this is true he gave out a lot of information that should be able to be proven.
He seemed to sell out a lot of people … including his dad!
Kinda makes you wonder what’s going on with that?

I guess I'm holding onto that tiny bit of hope!

Patty.... how do you know this was recorded a while ago?

 

[fran]

That cannot be the case. THIS interview was made with Greta LONG before anyone knew about Thailand at all. This was early in the year of 2008 this interview was made. So it's not possible.

Nope. This interview was made within the past two months or so,.....three months tops, imo. It was while Greta was working on the campaign broadcasts. That's why everyone was so shocked she actually went and came back without anyone suspecting it!

Oh, yeah, everyone who has been watching this case closely has known that Joran has been in Thailand for months and months. They wanted everyone to think Joran was in a mental hospital after the first Peter DeVries broadcast, but low and behold, he was spotted yukking it up in Thailand. He even made a sleazy European tabloid front cover!

fran

PSSSSSS Ok, Patty, it looks like you may be right, Greta has had this info for a while,..........That's because she was investigating the authenticity of her information. I did just find out about it in I believe the end of Oct., but I thought it was recently she'd been,........but in this link she said they've been working on this for months. fran

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/11/17/the-latest-2/

...............snip..........

I am hoping that the Aruban prosecutor will use his subpoena power to investigate further…and I am hoping to at least shed light on a very big problem that our own State Department admits is a giant problem in the Aruba area.

Once we obtained this information months ago, our job has been twofold: to disprove or prove. A good investigator chases down every lead and then works to both prove and disprove that lead.

I will tell you this: the new information fits the time line. I will also tell you that JIm Hammer went to Aruba for us and when he confronted Joran Van der Sloot’s father it was, to say the least, “awkward.” It was so weird that Paulus Van der Sloot ripped a paper out of Hammer’s hand (a transcript) and ran into his office. Note also that until we got this information, the Kalpoe brothers’ Aruban lawyer would always return my phone calls. Now he will not…

 

[fran]

Why is he not arrested. I dont get it.

You just need to understand the corruption of those that run Aruba. Joran will never be prosecuted for his crime against Natalee Holloway, IMHO.

Aruba is overseen by the Dutch. Joran is Dutch. Joran's dad is a failed judge, but he does have the right connections!

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Sounds like he's totally toying with her (Greta), and she's a willing partner. He finds it entertaining, and she finds it profitable.

While the Holloway case has been profitable for FOX, Greta isn't doing it for $$, IMHO.

Greta has a close bond with Beth Holloway. She was with Beth during those first few weeks and months of this case. Greta has compassion for the family of the victim.

IMHO, IF Greta could crack this case it would most likely be her greatest shining moment and she could finally bring some peace to this poor family.

Nahhh...........it's NOT the money for Greta, it's because she's human. It is for the money for Joran though.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

I agree with the thought that Joran always adds a little truth to whatever story he is telling. IMO this time, the "true" part is that his father was involved in a cover up.

The one teeny tiny bit of Joran's story that made sense to me was that the "selling" of Natalee may explain why no trace of her has been found (that we know of). I know there are other explanations -- tides, currents, etc -- but I've always thought it was strange that not even a flip-flop was found (again, that we know of ).

I have a question:

Has it ever been confirmed that it was Paulus in the casino surveillance tape playing poker? I can't remember if he was sitting near Natalee or not, but whoever it was looked SO much like him. Just wonderin'.



IMO

They won't confirm that was Paulus in the video in the casino,........but one only has to look with their own eyes. It's Paulus, IMHO! Same watch he's wearing in that other picture around of him in his judge's dress. Interestingly enough, the owner of the casino was furious that picture was released to Dateline(?) and it has since {disappeared} except on U.S. video.

YES he was sitting next to Natalee and she was talking to him and pointing at Joran!

EVERYONE says there's no trace of Natalee, but I don't believe that...........there's pictures,.........of a crabtrap................at the bottom of the ocean....................last winter when the Persistance was doing the ocean search...............the Persistance divers found the trap and asked the Arubans to help (trying to show cooperation.........BIG mistake).........the Arubans dived and recovered the trap and wouldn't let the Persistance crew see what was inside,.......................BUT......................a Persistance diver was,..........unbeknownst to the Aruban's...............running his camera.........The pictures are at a distance,..............but,..........MOST who've seen it say it's Natalee....................her blouse (in her last pictures) and I believe her denim skirt.......skull............

I'm sure many won't believe it,...........there's no {proof}.........EXCEPT the pictures.

JMHO
fran