Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #1

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fran said:
Nikki:

One thing is, the conversation didn't appear to have a 'flow' to it. Do you understand what I mean? It was like stilted or something. Of course, it being in a foreign language doesn't make it easier. But I've seen some people who are fluent in Dutch say that some of the words sounded like they were reading from 'written' words, because they said them how they would 'appear,' and not how they're normally 'spoken' in Dutch. If THAT makes any sense, LOL. :)

I do NOT believe Joran's latest tale, not ALL of it, and I do NOT think the recording of him speaking to his dad was ehhhh........GENUINE, as in for REAL.

Joran has lied and lied and lied from DAY 1 of this case. He and everyone on that cra**y little island have done NOTHING but try to make money off the back of this, MOST LIKELY, dead girl. They, including J2K, have done NOTHING but give this poor family grief!

To THIS DAY, they are doing everything in their power to see that the Holloway family NEVER finds out what happened to Natalee. I also believe the 'powers that be' in Aruba are also seeing to it that Beth pays the price, for 'GOING AWAY AND SHUTTING UP!' too late to save their touri$t industry from suffering.

Hard feelings run deep here. Lives have been ruined. People have died. A beautiful, brilliant young woman paid the ultimate price. To this day, the ramifications of this crime live on.

When will it stop? When will these low-lifes get a clue and slink away under the rock they came from? When will they leave this poor family alone and let them FINALLY grieve for the wonderful daughter they lost and grieve for the future she was denied?

When?

:(
fran
Click to expand...

Fran, last night listening to that "chip" I turned to my son and said, "Sounds like he's READING it." And I don't even speak Dutch.
I don't know what Joran's up to. Maybe he's just trying to get a quick buck and muddy the waters. Maybe he hates his dad and the Kalpoes and wants them to suffer in some way. I just know that he enjoys hurting people.
Aruba will do nothing about Natalee. They were never going to do anything about Natalee.
 
wildTrose said:
Once I heard he was trying to buy girls...I wondered if he had sold her...young pretty blondes probably go for a high amount in some countries...and whos to say the dads not part of the ring?
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I have often wondered if she wasn't sold. I believe he and his father are both into such things, that's my opinion only. But I believe there was such a large reward for her, that someone would have given information on her. I believe that Joran is a liar and you can only believe what he says if it can be proven.
 
Ok, I haven't read this whole thread but just read Greta's links on Fox. They really need to get Joran off the street. He obviously thinks nothing of women. Thinks they deserve to be slaves by his actions.

I really hope Natalee is alive. If he really sold her, then I would think there is a very good chance she is alive somewhere. Lord I hope so. Whatever the outcome her family needs some closure.

I've always wondered if she was sold. There was someone else that went missing from a cruise ship (Amy something and was on cruise with her parents and brother). She was seen around that bar Carlos, I think. She was seen later by a Marine and tried to get help but it never worked out for her. Does anyone else remember this? Anyway, there were many sitings of her and I always wondered if the same thing happened to Natalee.

I think until the Aruba government cooperates with the family and TRULY investigates and charges those responsible that Americans should boycott Aruba. Why support a country who won't help us????

This case is so frustrating!!!
 
IMO Joran was lying...

*he cant remember the guys name?
*he said he didnt have the guys number?
*but then he said he called him on his way to the hotel and spoke dutch to him so Natalee couldnt understand?
Give me a break! Even if he did sell her, that story is NOT what happened.
 
Although I will say Joran is a great liar. No hesitation on covering things up. Either good liar or telling the truth, but my bet is good liar. Also I heard he supposedly told a really good friend of his that Natalie died and that Natalie died of natural causes, and he got scared, dragged her body onto his boat and than dumped her body into the ocean. I think I believe that story more, because I don't think he would have told a good friend of his a lie. I think he was being honest because you would get into more trouble covering up a death or murdering someone than you would selling a body. So when his friend came out and said, "Oh yeah he told me she died and he dumped her body", he had to go for a lesser charge of "I sold her", because at that point he knew he was in trouble for something.
 
fran said:
FWIW, the FBI has no jurisdiciton over the Natalee Holloway case. Anything they have analyzed etc., was given to them by Aruba (think.......CHAIN OF CUSTODY). Every time the FBI told Beth et all any information, the Arubans would change the story. Even to the 'confession.'

When the FBI was in Aruba at the very beginning of this case, don't believe for a minute what Aruba says, that the FBI was assisting in the case. That's BS. The FBI was only allowed to OBSERVE. For diving, for interrogations, for everything. That is why after several days, the FBI finally LEFT Aruba, their hands were tied.


<respectfully snipped)

I know the FBI did not have "jurisdiction" in Aruba.. but from what I understand if there is evidence of human trafficking of an American citizen.. then doesnt that fall under their jurisdiction ? Maybe I am naive but I always thought if I was "sold" to some other country.. the FBI absolutely would have jurisdiction to investigate it. Didnt the FBI go to Thailand and investigate John Mark Carr prior to his arrest?
On the FBI site.. it DOES say they investigate human trafficking.
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/slavery.htm

My point is that Greta SHOULD have turned over ALL info to FBI immediately.. period.. If they did or didnt do anything.. well at least she did what was morally and ethically right... not "sit" on info for sweeps.
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With regard to Greta turning over what she has on Joran to the FBI, we don't know that she hasn't talked to them. But in the long run, IMHO, it most likely wouldn't matter as we all know EVERYONE thinks Joran is full of BS anyway. Joran isn't unknown to our FBI. Plus,.... Joran recanted his story within hours of giving it to Greta, thus putting credibility on it in the first place.

It is also well known that the FBI doesn't get involved in 'foreign' matters unless they're invited to by the subject country. Aruba has already proven that they'll invite the FBI, but it's with limited authority. With regard to Aruba, the FBI is only allowed to observe, despite Aruba's false statements printed in the media.

Greta has spent months trying to prove or disprove Joran's most recent tale. I believe part of the reason she finally did reveal what she had as she hit a brick wall, so-to-speak, and honestly needs LE's help to get to the bottom of it. But because it's from an incident that happened in Aruba, the ball is now in Aruba and they must either act or disregard the information.

My bet is, they'll just dismiss this latest bit of trivia. They've never had any intention of arresting anyone with regard to Natalee's death as they already know what happened. They just want it to go away.

Unfortunately for Aruba and Holland, they're stuck with Joran. :mad: Physically he's gone, but he just won't shut up! Maybe it's time they shut him up permanently, arrest him!:behindbar

JMHO
fran
 
And the story that she may be out there somewhere may shift focus from getting her killer to finding her. Takes a little heat off him as far as murder. Convenient timing when the murder issue was heating up in the news again.
 
Im pretty sure he is not being truthful but how wonderful would that be if she was alive.
 
I'm not sure what to think about what he said about selling her. I know that has been a rumor since early on in the case. But I also don't know about motive for such a story. And he has told so many stories to different people, how would you know if he was telling the truth?

She died of an overdose and he dropped her in the ocean? Now he sold her? If you look at it, and if their legal system is anything like ours, there was less legal liability for disposing of her body than kidnapping so why tell the selling story???

My first thought when I heard the kidnap/sell story was how wonderful it would be if it were true. My second thought was how hard this had to be on her mother. Every missing person's family when they don't have a body clings to some hope that their loved one might be alive somewhere. After all, they don't have a body to prove death. And just after her mom is trying to accept that she is dead, he comes up with a new story that she is alive. It is like he is getting off torturing her mother.
 
I suspect the truth is rather very simple. He gave her the date rape drug IMO, she overdosed and died. He called his dad to help him cover it up and she won't be found sadly. Her own mom feels she's gone and I trust a mothers instinct.
 
I'm not so sure what to make of Joran's latest version of events. Part of it does make some sense because no crime scene was found and his window of opportunity to get rid of her dead body was small. So if she had died accidentally on the beach, somebody would've had to act very quickly to dispose of her and leave no evidence behind. It does make more sense that he had planned to sell her and these people were right there and quickly got her out of there on the boat. Then he goes home and goes to school the next day as if nothing had happened, except his wallet is a little fatter. Maybe it's just my wishful thinking, still hoping she's alive. But she would be better off dead than to be in a sex slave ring in Venezuela. MOO

Now as for the timing of him making this up to get LE focused in another direction, don't they have to do something before the end of the year, or else the case is officially closed? I seem to recall a December deadline for filing charges. :waitasec:
 
So Joran punked Greta?

Hi fran. ty for GVS links.


So what's up?

What's pinokkio up to? makin' money off Greta?
Was he bored? Were 'they' draining another pond on the island?

What's up with that Dr. Phil lawsuit, anyway?

..................................................................................................


( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457715,00.html )

VAN SUSTEREN: Does Hans Mos want to help investigate Deepak and Satish and Paulus or not?
KELLY: No. In fact, the first call I made to him, he said -- he asked if this had anything to do with the Dr. Phil litigation, and if it did, he would not help me because he totally supports Satish and Deepak.
And the other thing is -- let me just add, Greta, you know, Aruba is a tourist island. Their commerce -- they can survive if the story is -- you know, is one aberrant act by a young man who got caught up and panicked on an accidental death of a young girl there. That they can live with. But you know, for several young men conspiring and plotting and putting someone into human trafficking, adults covering it up, law enforcement covering it up, government officials looking away, that's something Aruba can't survive.

.................................................................................................

news to me that HM supports the K2......

and human traficking and cocaine and .corruption and ....(well ya know.....) ..... but could JVS even tarnish Aruba's rotten reputation, at this point?
 
http://hypewriter.wordpress.com/2008/11/27/joran-van-der-sloot-a-sociopath-says-his-lawyer/

Joran van der Sloot “a sociopath” says his lawyer

the different scenarious he has put forward thus far:
  1. Original statement. That he met Natalie at a casino (as evidenced by surveillance video) and later picked up friends Satish and Deepak Kalpoe and took them to local bar Carlos and Charlie’s to see Natalie and her friends. Satish/Deepak (he swapped between which brother was actually driving) then dropped Natalie and Joran off at the beach because “she wanted to see sharks”. They then dropped Natalie off at her hotel.
  2. Story 2. This story then changed when Joran sat down with Greta can Susteren for the first time in 2007 where he said they were dropped off at the beach and were “fooling around” but did not have intercourse. He then says he left her on the beach because he had to get up early to go to school the next day.
  3. Story 3. In early 2008, private investigator Peter de Vries claimed he had cracked the case when he released a secretly filmed recording of Joran confessing that Natalie had died on the beach and that his family had taken care of it. Van der Sloot maintains that he was lying throughout the interview and “only wanted to tell him (de Vries) what he wanted to hear”, in addition to being impaired due to the influence of marijuana.
  4. The latest story. In an interview conducted in July of 2008, Joran appeared on van Susteren’s show to confess that a man had approached him asking for a “blonde girl” in return for $10,000. Joran agreed and when he saw the opportunity, delivered Natalie to this mystery man on the beach and saw her being taken away on a boat. The new claim that he was somehow involved in human trafficking is supposedly supported by an audio clip conversation between Joran and his father Paulus, however its authenticity is widely disputed. Joran further claims that his father paid police hush money totalling $50,000 for their silence. As has become his custom, after the interview took place Joran sent the producer of On the Record an email saying he had made it all up and recanted the story
 
from Scared Monkeys forum,

Reaction of de Vries to latest GVS/JVS interview:

http://.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg560120#msg560120



Peter: Both roles - I think he plays the role of his father - I know the voice of his father, and it's nothing like it. Another thing that strikes me as odd is that there is no cross talk going on - and this is supposed to be an "emotional" conversation. There are long pauses in the conversation as well. I sounded to me like it was a scripted "conversation."

Albert: That means that Joran is "sacrificing" his own father ... Which is what it boils down to.

Peter: Look, it was his intention, I told about this yesterday and I think it was his intention that this would "explode," so he could be all "See, I'm all lies, I'm unstable, I'm insane, I'm a professional fantasist. That was the image he wanted to portray, making the confessions in the car to Patrick van der Eem look like just another made up story. And the general public would be like "This boy is not accountable [ontoerekeningsvatbaar]"
 
Lola said:
That's about the size of it, and IMO she was a willing participant. I'm disgusted.
Click to expand...
Yeah she thought she had new info but that's about it. No one knows what her motives are...sweeps, sure, but is that it? No one knows, and no one can really say for sure. At least she's helping keep the story alive, and that accounts for something. She's also at least showing what a liar he is, which may come back to bite him some day, as now there is a public record recording all his lies. There's always a silver lining even in the ugliest of situations..whether this one be one or not.
 
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