Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 *AL extortion trial* *Guilty* #3

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Nova said:
I don't think he says the cinder block washed up on the beach.

He isn't specific, but it seems to me he was saying there were cinder blocks laying around and he grabbed the closest one. (His interrogator asks him if he means "like the blocks on the beach" and JVDS says yes.)
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In a previous version he says she hit her head on a rock. He, like other killers, uses the same imagery from story to changing story. Tidbits, like "walked her" that I just posted about. If he smashed her badly like he now says; how can we envision the need to "walk her" to the water line? Dragging would make sense, why would he want her head on his shoulder at that point? (Sorry)
That's what the cinder block represented to me, maybe carried over into becoming a weight when she was imo dumped from the boat. Easy to tie a line into. Or helping to weigh down a fish pot. If there was 1 cinderblock on the beach there must have been others.
 
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NuttMegg said:
Interesting when he says he half pulled, half walked with her and put her in the ocean. In one of his previous versions he walks her to where a boat is. Walks her while she is dead.

Then; his saying - put her in the ocean - could have passed the poly while covering a range of scenarios. Like putting her in the ocean from a boat.

I don"t remember if it was ever released whether he clocked in at school the next day. Apparently his confession includes his returning home to watch *advertiser censored* that night; I wonder if they have those time data. To do that he would have had to just push her in (not true, imo) or very quickly have turned her over to another party. And literally washed his hands of it.
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^^bbm

No, the transcript does not include any statements about what he did when he got home after murdering NH, including what he watched on his computer or TV, or what he did with his bloody clothes-- for that matter.

However, we know that in 2005, JVDS and his friends were arrested, held, and later released in Sept 2005 when Aruba authorities did not have sufficient evidence to charge him, but he remained the suspect in NH's disappearance.

I don't know if JVDS was out of school for summer holiday when NH was murdered but I would think Aruba investigators had knowledge of his whereabouts the next day.

IMO, I think It's possible FBI has the investigative reports from the initial arrest in Aruba, and any relevant statements made by JVDS and likely used the entire file when making a determination if his confession was deemed credible. This was the best they were gonna get -- the US Prosecuting Attorney getting her one bite at the apple under the guise of Extortion and Wire Fraud charges, and I hope they collected all of the evidence possible before the binding plea agreement was signed off. MOO

Seattle1 said:
Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were arrested on June 9, 2005. Just over a week later, a fourth man, 26-year-old party boat DJ Steve Gregory Croes, was arrested. On June 23, van der Sloot’s father Paulus, a lawyer training to be a judge, was also arrested in connection with Natalee’s disappearance.

According to The New York Times, all five men were considered suspects. However, they had all been released from jail by September 2005 — though Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoes were still considered “under investigation” at the time, CNN reported.
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^^rsbm
 
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Nova said:
You may be right, but I've never heard any inmate say s/he enjoyed life in prison, no matter how cushy the institution.
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If we could have read his mind as he flew to the states, imo he would have been thinking....I just need to get out of the usa asap. Which he was given on a silver platter witb just 4 mos in jail, he even got "time served" for those mos. He said that in Peru he wasn't allowed to see his little girl before he left.
So in negotiations he quickly picks up that...miracle of miracles...if he "tells what really happened to NH" it all goes away. Plus...no time added to Peru sentence. Astoundingly good from his pov, and astoundingly inexplicable from the pov of American citizens paying for all of it. The whole exercise was based on a treaty that in part was defined to let a prisoner be sentenced to additional years to be served after the sentence in the original country.

So the Holloways got some peace of mind to grasp onto, with Dave adding his carefully worded disbelief of the disposal.....But the use of the treaty was basically mocked by the process, the major crime didn't take place in either country.

And Joran...new convert to religion or not...won the lottery.

Imo
 
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Seattle1 said:
^^bbm

No, the transcript does not include any statements about what he did when he got home after murdering NH, including what he watched on his computer or TV, or what he did with his bloody clothes-- for that matter.

However, we know that in 2005, JVDS and his friends were arrested, held, and later released in Sept 2005 when Aruba authorities did not have sufficient evidence to charge him, but he remained the suspect in NH's disappearance.

I don't know if JVDS was out of school for summer holiday when NH was murdered but I would think Aruba investigators had knowledge of his whereabouts the next day.

IMO, I think It's possible FBI has the investigative reports from the initial arrest in Aruba, and any relevant statements made by JVDS and likely used the entire file when making a determination if his confession was deemed credible. This was the best they were gonna get -- the US Prosecuting Attorney getting her one bite at the apple under the guise of Extortion and Wire Fraud charges, and I hope they collected all of the evidence possible before the binding plea agreement was signed off. MOO


^^rsbm
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Beth said it yesterday. That in his confession he said he went home to watch prn. But that too was mentioned LONG ago.

In an earlier version he said he was angry with NH because he had to go to school the next day and wanted to leave the beach. While she, with no school obligations wanted to stay.
 
Seattle1 said:
I'm not shocked by this decision. He currently has time to serve until 2043 and a good chance he'll re-offend in his Peruvian prison as he did before -- drug charges, and will extend his stay! It's good for the US that he will not return to America or be a financial drain here in his old age for another 20 years. JMO
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I didn’t think about it that way. Good points.

On another note:
Anything that comes out of his mouth is unbelievable to me. I have no idea what’s true or not.

Also, although the years have revealed more and more of his inner ugliness, his expressions do not show someone who is suffering at all. And that bothers me.

Why do psychopaths always seem to do so well when incarcerated? Caylee Anthony for her brief time in jail, Jodi Arias, this slug, Scott Peterson, and on and on. They never seem to suffer the way an innocent person would.

It really bothers me. It’s like there can never be any true justice.
 
NuttMegg said:
If we could have read his mind as he flew to the states, imo he would have been thinking....I just need to get out of the usa asap.
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^^rsbm

Here's the deal with a manipulating liar such as this dude, you never really know what he's thinking except it will be all about himself and how he can benefit. For example, in May, JVDS was all for coming to the States and said he was not going to challenge extradition and wanted to clear his name. He probably wanted a holiday.

However, by June 6, 2023, days before the plane was ready to transfer the inmate, his attorney Maximo Altez said his client changed his mind after a meeting with Dutch diplomats. The lawyer argued in the habeas corpus challenge that van der Sloot hadn’t been properly notified about the extradition process.

'He was visited today by his embassy (representatives) who made him see the mistake he was making by being extradited without due process,' Altez added.

But when Altez was unsuccessful at stopping his client's extradition, he turned it on Beth -- alleging that it was actually Natalee's mother who approached Van der Sloot-- offering money if he took her to her daughter's body. It was complete rubbish!

'He was living his life in Aruba and got a call from Beth Holloway, who tricked him,’ he claimed.

'She said: "Joran, tell me where the body is and I'll give you $250,000." He never asked for money, she's the one that offered.

'She even gave him an advancement and he never asked for the rest. He only got $25,000.'

Altez explained that his client is a 'sick person' and 'compulsive gambler', who 'needed the money to play at the casino'. However, he claimed Mrs Holloway 'took advantage of him'.

In his 2007 book, 'The Case of Natalee Holloway: My Own Story about her Disappearance on Aruba', van der Sloot admitted lying to police and apologized to the Holloways.

He wrote: 'I understand that my lies in the past seriously tarnished my credibility.'

He maintained his innocence, explaining that he had left an intoxicated Natalee on the beach, where he said she wanted to 'watch the stars'.

Liar, liar, pants on fire....

Lawyer files 11th-hour Petition to BLOCK Suspect's Extradition from Peru to the US
 
Megnut said:
"I find a space.... I lay her down... I get her to kiss me... I feel her up.... she says no....I insist..." HE. FORCED. HIMSELF. ON. HER.

Vile human being. Emphasis on vile. Exaggeration on human being.

JMO
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I believe he did force himself on Natalee. I recall early on he gave a description of her panties and Beth confirmed that they were indeed Natalee’s and I also remember her exact reaction and it was very telling. He otherwise wouldn’t have known what her panties looked like. My guess is the concrete block played a role in the body disposal.
 
NuttMegg said:
Why would he want to get out very soon? Women sending money, internet poker, conjugal visits 2x a week. Private quite roomy room (i posted the video of him in the entrance to it).

Similar to Watts, never a need to worry about a job, food, shelter again in his whole miserable life, in watts' case. In a special prison that is more protected.

Joran could be out mid 50s, quite a well off guy. with a system of family and friends helping set it all up on the outside while he funnels out the $$.
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Bbm.
Ugh ! Makes me angry.
He will still be dangerous !
Omo.
 
Chimera said:
Bbm.
Ugh ! Makes me angry.
He will still be dangerous !
Omo.
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He has to stay dangerous to live thru 20 more years of that kind of prison. I know that's not the type of dangerous you meant, but the prison system dictates that they get most of their own food, and relatives bring stuff on the weekend. I've seen the lines, whole families, kids too, lined up with pots of food, clothes, bedding.

All of it becomes barter.
 
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LaborDayRN said:
I think the "polygraph" is a big ol' nothing burger. There's a reason polygraph results are often not admissible in court IMO.
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O.J. Simpson's attorney, Robert Shapiro, gave Simpson a polygraph test just after the murders and before he was arrested. Simpson failed every question concerning the murders.

Yes, "there is a reason polygraph results are often not admissible in court," but there was nothing to lose by administering it to JVDS in this situation IMO.

My main point was NOT the polygraph test. It was that JVDS had a self-interest in confessing due to the statute of limitation and concurrent sentences. He may well walk out of prison some day.
 
Video is less than 5 minutes and worth the watch, imo. Mr. Miller is worth (moo) the time and hands on the search way back when Natalee went missing ... nine trips to Aruba!


Man who searched for Holloway doesn’t believe van der Sloot​

  • Joran Van der Sloot pleads guilty in Natalee Holloway case
  • Tim Miller says van der Sloot will 'come up with another story'
  • Miller made nine trips to Aruba to search for Holloway


Man who searched for Holloway doesn’t believe van der Sloot

Updated: OCT 18, 2023 / 11:20 PM CDT
 
arielilane said:
Video is less than 5 minutes and worth the watch, imo. Mr. Miller is worth (moo) the time and hands on the search way back when Natalee went missing ... nine trips to Aruba!


Man who searched for Holloway doesn’t believe van der Sloot​

  • Joran Van der Sloot pleads guilty in Natalee Holloway case
  • Tim Miller says van der Sloot will 'come up with another story'
  • Miller made nine trips to Aruba to search for Holloway


Man who searched for Holloway doesn’t believe van der Sloot

Updated: OCT 18, 2023 / 11:20 PM CDT
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Wow, thanks! He feels the same as I do and I hadn't before heard of that witness.

I think when vds got with the pd he was presented with "I killed her" being the get out of jail free card (= concurrent) with anything less than that would carry a consecutive, even higher sentence. It's obviously at least half a lie, so everyone trusts the other half with so many "tidbits" from earlier versions strung together?

Miller even questioned cinder blocks being on that beach and he's been there 9 times.

I am shocked that he has broken with BH in believing little of what vds said. ( this time).
 
I don't have the time or desire to do it, but some younger fanatic could make a wall flowchart. (And I mean fanatic in the most complimentary way, my heros, ppl who do the deep dive)

List the iconic "tidbits" from all his stories. Ie "walked her", "cinder block", "walked home", "head hit rock", "lighthouse" and from some of those later interviews he did in a car, etc.

Make a card for each "tidbit=phrase".

Then, just like detectives on tv solving murders......use the wall and post each time he used that imagery. Draw conclusions from earliest use, frequency etc. I've seen similar analyses lately on slip ups from Watts and Morphew where they repeated telling "tidbits" in a context that was "off".

Notice how very little we've heard in specifics after she was dead.

Just a little mind game. I do believe she's in a fish trap in deep water, something with netting that lasts a long time. Crab bait they would say in Alaska. :confused:

Jmo
 
One other thing, Beth said jvds went home to watch prn afterwards. That word was also used in his earlier story about he and/or one of the Kalpoes putting a prn tape on the car's player while NH was with them. So, if Beth is correct about that behavior being in his latest confession, that's double use of that icon in just a few hours.
 
I always believed Joran was responsible
....on the fence whether or not he had help disposing of Natalees body.
He only confessed to benefit himself, not to give some peace to Natalees family. IMO, i question how much of the details he gave, relating to her murder, are true. He is a liar who enjoys tormenting Beth...I hope the family gets some sort of closure now.
 
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