Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 *AL extortion trial* *Guilty* #3

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Megnut said:
We know who did it.

IMO we still don't know how he did it, really. IMO he is a sociopath, nay nay, a psychopath. Incapable of true empathy. Driven more by sadistic forces...

I wonder if the sharp detail about the supposed injuries to Natalee's face were sick poetic license on his part. Perverse license. Invented to hurt Natalee's parents. Perverse pleasure to him.

He is just a human without a soul. Evil wearing pants.

Feeling profound sadness for Natalee's family....

Jmo
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Ironic you say that as I felt the bashing of her face was meant especially to pay back not only BH..but all of the gazillions of people who posted NHs beautiful photos & celebrated her goodness for years.
Somehow this monster is elevated by destroying any & all good things. Still.
I have not followed the story for years.
I know Robert Cooke (who’s own Texas daughter was missing) went to Aruba to help. He posted updates on Court TV message board back in the day. He & Tim Miller from Equusearch tried with exhausting determination to find Natalie. So many did.
I think BH exposed him, belittled him,
then dismissed him out front on the court steps. IMO those are good tools for wounding any monster & getting on with your life.
Good on her.

Moo
 
Sherwood Park said:
I have no problem believing the part about him hitting Natalee in the face. He has a severe anger problem.
I don't see it as a far fetch to believe he hit both women in the face and when they started to scream or make noise he strangled them. This type of violence isn't uncommon for men who have murdered women. They get angry, strike the woman, and then kill despite it not being their original intention.
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Wow. Almost makes one wonder if there have been other young women who went missing any where else that Van Der Sloot was living or visiting.

We know about Steffanie Flores, and Natalee Halloway, could there be more?
 
NuttMegg said:
In a previous version he says she hit her head on a rock. He, like other killers, uses the same imagery from story to changing story. Tidbits, like "walked her" that I just posted about. If he smashed her badly like he now says; how can we envision the need to "walk her" to the water line? Dragging would make sense, why would he want her head on his shoulder at that point? (Sorry)
That's what the cinder block represented to me, maybe carried over into becoming a weight when she was imo dumped from the boat. Easy to tie a line into. Or helping to weigh down a fish pot. If there was 1 cinderblock on the beach there must have been others.
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Although his English is certainly better than my Dutch, JVDS is still speaking in a language other than his native tongue. Maybe the word "dragged" just didn't pop into his head.

Likewise, when he said he hit NH with a "rock", it may be he didn't know the term "cinderblock" at the time.

But even we native English speakers say things like "I'll walk the file down to you after lunch." And we don't mean the file has legs or that we are going to pretend to make it move in a "walking" motion. We mean that we will walk while carrying the file.

None of this is to say I think Van Der Sloot's every word is gospel. But neither do I think he is a master writer of detective stories whose every word is carefully chosen as a clue.

Maybe the tide was going out at the time and carried NH's body with it.

Maybe he unbuttoned and retied NH's blouse through the opening in the cinderblock. That might have been strong enough to keep the body submerged until an undertow carried it too far out for accidental discovery.

Or, yes, maybe he grabbed one of the fishermen's boat and used it to float the body out beyond the point where waves would bring it back to the beach. Though I don't know what he had to gain by omitting that part of the story.

But, yes, he does say in his statement that there were other cinderblocks on the beach that night.
 
Seattle1 said:
^^bbm

No, the transcript does not include any statements about what he did when he got home after murdering NH, including what he watched on his computer or TV, or what he did with his bloody clothes-- for that matter.

However, we know that in 2005, JVDS and his friends were arrested, held, and later released in Sept 2005 when Aruba authorities did not have sufficient evidence to charge him, but he remained the suspect in NH's disappearance.

I don't know if JVDS was out of school for summer holiday when NH was murdered but I would think Aruba investigators had knowledge of his whereabouts the next day....
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(Emphasis added.)

My memory is that JVDS' initial story was that he went home alone despite Natalee's objections because he had an exam first thing the following morning in school. That would be an easy lie to trip over if it weren't true.
 
NuttMegg said:
If we could have read his mind as he flew to the states, imo he would have been thinking....I just need to get out of the usa asap. Which he was given on a silver platter witb just 4 mos in jail, he even got "time served" for those mos. He said that in Peru he wasn't allowed to see his little girl before he left.
So in negotiations he quickly picks up that...miracle of miracles...if he "tells what really happened to NH" it all goes away. Plus...no time added to Peru sentence. Astoundingly good from his pov, and astoundingly inexplicable from the pov of American citizens paying for all of it. The whole exercise was based on a treaty that in part was defined to let a prisoner be sentenced to additional years to be served after the sentence in the original country.

So the Holloways got some peace of mind to grasp onto, with Dave adding his carefully worded disbelief of the disposal.....But the use of the treaty was basically mocked by the process, the major crime didn't take place in either country.

And Joran...new convert to religion or not...won the lottery.

Imo
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Per Nancy Grace on YouTube this afternoon, the judge said she feared that if she made his American sentence consecutive rather than concurrent, she would be violating the reciprocity treaty between the USA and Peru. (Again, the guidelines for extortion would have normally given JVDS a sentence of only three or four years, per internet lawyers.)

Myself, I'm looking at the silver lining: NH's parents have a confession and the killer has more than 20 years left in a prison known for its inmate violence. Who knows what may happen between now and 2045 (or so)?

Of course, I'd prefer he be sentenced to LWOP, but that wasn't an option for this judge.
 
Seattle1 said:
I dunno -- while I'm happy for NH's parents, her family, and friends that they can rest having her killer's statement, confirming he murdered NH, filed in an Alabama Court for all to witness, it feels somewhat backdoor, shady, to me how it all went down -- beginning with the "binding" plea agreement negotiated between the parties which essentially left the Court with only two options: take it or reject it.

Obviously, the presiding Judge was in no way going to be the Justice to go down in history as the one who infamously rejected closure for NH's family and the out-of-court resolution of an evil, mean-spirited, financial crime by JVDS!

Under typical proceedings, following the change of plea hearing, pursuant to Rule 32, the Court would have set sentencing for JVDS within 60 days of the change of plea date. During this time and sentencing, the Court and the defendant would have received the federal presentence report (PSR or PSI) by the probation department which may have flushed out some important details about JVDS for the Court to consider before imposing his sentence. Maybe even a few critical details JVDS conveniently omitted from his 2.5-minute confession!

IMO, having slept on it, the confession just comes across as too well rehearsed. Getting a bad vibe from the State Attorney too. IIRC, the treaty provides for 12 months, and we all know that when it comes to federal Government, very little comes together and/or gets wrapped up in 4 months. BAM!
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The DA thanked the team for the 18 months they spend on the Van Der Sloot case. So whatever details you wanted "teased out", I suspect the team found them. Obviously, I can't know for sure.
 
Barb Wire said:
The fish trap with Natalee's shirt, a white sneaker and a cop hat. Looks like Aruba was in on the over up, paid by Paulus JVS father. Before he died remember the ATM visit that night borrowed boat form JVDS friend. IMO
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Oh, come on. There's no reason to believe Aruban authorities covered up on behalf of PVDS! That island has to be sensitive about its international reputation for the safety of visitors.

They arrested Joran twice and Paulus once. IIRC they tried to keep them longer, but were overruled by a Dutch court. Dutch law is Dutch law, whether we like it or not.

But let's remember that far more murders go unsolved here in the USA than in The Netherlands (if only because we have so many more people and so much more crime).
 

I would like to add a hearty "Thank YOU' to Tricia and the Moderators for their policy against bashing the victims (including survivors) of true crime.​

​

Back in the day (18 years ago), there was a lot of hostility toward Natalee's mother in these threads.​

​

Maybe she did roar through Aruba like a bull in a china shop, but I never understood those who blamed her.​

​

If, God forbid, my own daughter were missing, I hope I would be even half as fierce as Beth Holloway (at the time, Twitty)! I am grateful that Natalee Holloway's short life was graced by such loving parents.​

 
Sherwood Park said:
I have no problem believing the part about him hitting Natalee in the face. He has a severe anger problem.
I don't see it as a far fetch to believe he hit both women in the face and when they started to scream or make noise he strangled them. This type of violence isn't uncommon for men who have murdered women. They get angry, strike the woman, and then kill despite it not being their original intention.
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I could not agree more. I recall an interview with one of victim Stephany's brothers who was sent by his father to view her body and had to tell him what JVDS did to her face -- including the gouging of her eyeball and broken neck. I don't think there was evidence of SA but she was missing her jeans. I think he attempted to rape her and she fought back. I think Natalee did too. IMO, he's a psychopath who derives pleasure from disfiguring women.

ETA: I couldn't link the interview video but found a transcript.

 
Mica said:

Aruba requests Joran van der Sloot’s US investigation records in possible Natalee Holloway prosecution​


www.al.com

Aruba requests Joran van der Sloot’s US investigation records in possible Natalee Holloway prosecution

Prosecutors in Aruba wish to review DOJ records “before deciding on the procedural steps to be taken.”
www.al.com www.al.com
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He'll never be charged for murder in Aruba! IMO, they will use this information to close the "missing person" investigation that remained open in Aruba.

From the Quoted link:

“Your question as to whether the suspicion against Joran van der Sloot is statute-barred, cannot be answered with a straightforward yes or no,” Angela replied today.

“It depends on several factors within the investigation. The Police Force, the Public Prosecutor’s Office of Aruba and other investigative entities will follow up on any serious leads that could solve the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Holloway case is still an open investigation in Aruba. As it is an ongoing case, the Public Prosecutor’s Office will only provide limited information to the media,” Angela wrote in an email to AL.com.
 
Seattle1 said:
I could not agree more. I recall an interview with one of victim Stephany's brothers who was sent by his father to view her body and had to tell him what JVDS did to her face -- including the gouging of her eyeball and broken neck. I don't think there was evidence of SA but she was missing her jeans. I think he attempted to rape her and she fought back. I think Natalee did too. IMO, he's a psychopath who derives pleasure from disfiguring women.

ETA: I couldn't link the interview video but found a transcript.

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I was unaware. That is next level depravity.

JMO
 
Nova said:

I would like to add a hearty "Thank YOU' to Tricia and the Moderators for their policy against bashing the victims (including survivors) of true crime.​

​

Back in the day (18 years ago), there was a lot of hostility toward Natalee's mother in these threads.​

​

Maybe she did roar through Aruba like a bull in a china shop, but I never understood those who blamed her.​

​

If, God forbid, my own daughter were missing, I hope I would be even half as fierce as Beth Holloway (at the time, Twitty)! I am grateful that Natalee Holloway's short life was graced by such loving parents.​

Click to expand...
If my child was missing I’d burn the place they went missing to the ground trying to find them. MOO
 
Mica said:

Aruba requests Joran van der Sloot’s US investigation records in possible Natalee Holloway prosecution​


www.al.com

Aruba requests Joran van der Sloot’s US investigation records in possible Natalee Holloway prosecution

Prosecutors in Aruba wish to review DOJ records “before deciding on the procedural steps to be taken.”
www.al.com www.al.com
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Interesting. Kind of suggests that there was no attempt by usa fed atty to get Aruban records of Joran's previous statements/testimonies etc.

I'm still baffled that he put himself so far out on the limb with the largely unbelievable confession, now it occurs to me that maybe the goal was to end up in NL. Or he could have "confessed" to facts already disproven in Aruba, and could now say they made me choose full confession to make the usa sentence meaningless, which it is, imo. Ie concurrency with time served.

Please post if anyone learns of a similar treaty. NL/Peru/usa.

I still think he'll have more "liberty" in Peru than any of the 3 countries.

He was in touch with NL embassy in Miraflores, Lima, stands to reason that he ran his confession by the same entity in usa given he's a citizen.

Imo
 
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I always admired Beth Holloway! She and Dave never gave up! I just believe will all of my heart that Natalee would be so proud of her family. I hope there is nothing but dark days and nights ahead for Joran, he's caused so much pain in his life and was very successful in torturing the Holloways.
 
arielilane said:
Here are the fish huts in Aruba where Nancy Grace, and I visited with Beth Holloway while on the island last year. I have circled a broken cinder block. Behind these small huts were boards, crates, buckets and blocks.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715321704728195184

View attachment 454688
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That photo paints a picture for me.

I think he confessed to a story. Credible but not really. I see that cinderblock, I see that dinghy...

It computes for that he overpowered her, despite her attempts to fight him off, and that he likely looked around for what he could use.

Grabbed a cinderblock (or the other half of a broken one, walked her body out to an anchored boat, reached deeper waters and used the cinderblock and whatever he had access to, for a tether.

It's truly hard to fathom that he was once someone's beloved newborn, toddler, cheeky kindergartener. His current self so devoid of decency, it's like he morphed into evil at a particular age or it was somehow there all along, just waiting to strike, deriving pleasure from (the) pain (he inflicts).

How do you go from Legoes to cinderblocks?

Utterly frightening.

JMO
 
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