ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 1

[Tugela]

If these two were intoxicated, the drowning scenario seems increasingly more likely.

If these reports regarding the pictures are accurate, it is pretty clear that this couple were on a private party trip. The apparent ignorance of the boyfriend, GG paying for the trip, compromising pictures, intoxication, now supposedly an existing intimate relationship between the two. It doesnt look like the boyfriend knew RG all that well at all, and one would have to wonder why.

I think these two went to Aruba on a fantasy party trip, GG was paying, it was his fantasy and she was providing a service of sorts. What she would have been getting out if it isnt clear, but one can guess. Then sex, drinking and the usual things. They go down to the beach, RG was drunk, maybe high, and everyone's judgement was impaired. They decide to go snorkeling for fun, neither of them know what they are doing and get separated. GG heads to shore but RG gets into trouble, drowns and her body gets swept out to sea. GG was probably intoxicated as well, perhaps isnt too clear on what exactly happened or when. And here we are now. Basically a tragic accident.

Let's see what this supposed blood print is. I suspect that the Aruban authorities are gun shy after the Natalie Holloway case, so they are doing the better safe than sorry approach now. They are going to use every possible thing to hold him.

 

[Tugela]

No fortunately neither us has died, but we did have a car accident that required hospital stays and flights home and they paid us. It is covered for accidental death as well, my point was that I do both policies and neither of us has signed a document so it can be done. As well, I am the estate if hubby dies and vice versa.

Ya, but you are who you say you are and are legally related so no problem.

On the other hand if I took a policy out on you, for example, I could do that because, as you say, it is done electronically, but there is no way that I would be able to collect if something happened to you. You hubby, however, would be able to.

 

[Kiln Wood]

I have been following along on the perpheral of this case. I haven't read the entire thread so please excuse if this question has been answered, but its been bugging the hello outta me for a couple of days.

Where did this guy get all this money? He owns a 1.2 mil house. Takes exotic vacations and cruises, etc. etc. Where does the money come from? What does he do? Is he a "golden spoon" baby from some immensely wealthy family or did he "make it on his own"? And, if so, how or what does he do?

TIA

BBM

I don't mean to be rude or impertinent here, but do you suppose he has been the beneficiary of a hefty life insurance policy--or several?

 

[concentric]

Google "robynlgardner" and you will see it.

Interesting that in Feb 2010 she chose that photo. Apparently the modeling shots did not come till later. Perhaps Gary helped with those shots.

--------
Very interesting...so we know she had a strong desire to get onto a reality show. We read in at least one article that Real Housewives was highlighted as being a favorite show. So, many days ago, I posted that maybe she wanted to become a real housewife of Aruba, not literally, but as in, GG probably filled her head with promises of using his various media connections to get her onto tv.

 

[otto]

BBM

I don't mean to be rude or impertinent here, but do you suppose he has been the beneficiary of a hefty life insurance policy--or several?

Perhaps he made his money in computers:

"Giordano married Cohen in 1987, several years after earning a degree in computer science from the University of Maryland. The couple had three sons, but the relationship deteriorated. They finalized their divorce in 2003. At one point, each accused the other of abuse, with Giordano alleging that his wife struck him in the back with a steel cooking spoon during a heated argument."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...ast_n_926421.html#s326251&title=Robyn_Gardner

 

[HatesSociopaths]

If you just took what Gary has reportedly said: Robyn had taken sleeping pills, drunk vodka, and then he took her snorkeling during this time, that would be enough for an involuntary manslaughter charge accompanied by recklessness (a prison term up to 4 years max under Dutch law). MOO.

That would also tell me this wasn't planned by Gary well ahead of time. He would have thought this point through if he really had this in mind before going to Aruba. I am still skeptical of the insurance info until more verification comes in. MOO.

I'd like someone with legal expertise on manslaughter to weigh in if possible.

This is what I can find so far about English law, not sure about Dutch yet:

In English law, gross negligence is the test for manslaughter. The crime was defined in R v Bateman as 'to show such disregard for life and the safety of others as to amount to a crime against the state and conduct deserving of punishment.[19] In R v Adomako the House of Lords affirmed R v Bateman, and set out the five elements required for negligence:
A duty of care owed by the defendant to the victim.
A breach of that duty.
A risk that the defendant's conduct could cause death.[20]
Evidence that the breach of duty caused the victim's death.
The defendant fell so far below the standards of the reasonable man in that situation that he should be labelled grossly negligent and deserving of criminal punishment.
It is for the jury to decide what constitutes 'grossly negligent behaviour'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter#Involuntary_manslaughter

Hasn't what Gary Giordano already told us a disregard for the safety of Robyn's life, who was under the influence of sleeping pills and vodka yet was taken snorkeling (in dangerous waters away from Baby beach), all according to Gary? Has he not already "confessed" to involuntary manslaughter?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

--------
Very interesting...so we know she had a strong desire to get onto a reality show. We read in at least one article that Real Housewives was highlighted as being a favorite show. So, many days ago, I posted that maybe she wanted to become a real housewife of Aruba, not literally, but as in, GG probably filled her head with promises of using his various media connections to get her onto tv.

I think this was indeed Gary's "IN" with Robyn - that he could help her achieve her dreams to be on television, etc. I believe it may well be accurate that he got her dental work done, breast job, modeling photos, (the photo of her from Feb 2010 before she met Gary is the worst of the bunch - I think he may have helped bring about her transformation) and that eventually Robyn may have caught on that she wasn't getting anywhere with her career, only deeper into turmoil with a very sexually demanding Gary. She never fully cut it all off though, and let him lurk until the moment was right to whisk her away to Aruba when she was feeling down.

 

[Tugela]

I'd like someone with legal expertise on manslaughter to weigh in if possible.

This is what I can find so far about English law, not sure about Dutch yet:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter#Involuntary_manslaughter

Hasn't what Gary has already told us a disregard for the safety of Robyn's life, who was under the influence of sleeping pills and vodka yet was taken snorkeling (in a dangerous part away from Baby beach), all according to Gary?

Not applicable (it is English law anyway, Dutch law is based on the Napoleonic Code) since he had no duty of care. That is a requirement in English law. And if she was intoxicated, he probably was as well, allthough perhaps not as much as her. He would have a duty of care if he observed her in distress, and failed to assist when capable of doing so and being knowledgeable about how to do so. But there is no evidence or even suggestion that that is the case.

 

[concentric]

I knew he had a digital camera but I've not heard what photos he took until I read this...

Source: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20520711,00.html

I kept saying from the beginning that his plan was to take *advertiser censored* photos/video. He did it with past girlfriends and I thought and think he did with Robyn.

I've always thought he deceived her, and lead her on, that he wanted to take "modeling" shots of her on Aruba. Only, his brand of modeling was *advertiser censored*.

The article says the shots were beyond *advertiser censored*. Were they sadistic? I hated to even suggest it, but I wondered if he could have gone beyond sadism and into snuff material.

 

[defense101]

Ya, but you are who you say you are and are legally related so no problem.

On the other hand if I took a policy out on you, for example, I could do that because, as you say, it is done electronically, but there is no way that I would be able to collect if something happened to you. You hubby, however, would be able to.

you're right, now the question comes in is did RG agree?

 

[otto]

I'd like someone with legal expertise on manslaughter to weigh in if possible.

This is what I can find so far about English law, not sure about Dutch yet:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter#Involuntary_manslaughter

Hasn't what Gary Giordano already told us a disregard for the safety of Robyn's life, who was under the influence of sleeping pills and vodka yet was taken snorkeling (in dangerous waters away from Baby beach), all according to Gary? Has he not already "confessed" to involuntary manslaughter?

That would be a bit like convicting him of having poor judgment and not looking after a 35 year old. Why would he be responsible for her decisions? She is an adult that could choose to take pills, drink and swim if she wanted.

 

[annalia]

If these two were intoxicated, the drowning scenario seems increasingly more likely.

If these reports regarding the pictures are accurate, it is pretty clear that this couple were on a private party trip. The apparent ignorance of the boyfriend, GG paying for the trip, compromising pictures, intoxication, now supposedly an existing intimate relationship between the two. It doesnt look like the boyfriend knew RG all that well at all, and one would have to wonder why.

I think these two went to Aruba on a fantasy party trip, GG was paying, it was his fantasy and she was providing a service of sorts. What she would have been getting out if it isnt clear, but one can guess. Then sex, drinking and the usual things. They go down to the beach, RG was drunk, maybe high, and everyone's judgement was impaired. They decide to go snorkeling for fun, neither of them know what they are doing and get separated. GG heads to shore but RG gets into trouble, drowns and her body gets swept out to sea. GG was probably intoxicated as well, perhaps isnt too clear on what exactly happened or when. And here we are now. Basically a tragic accident.

Let's see what this supposed blood print is. I suspect that the Aruban authorities are gun shy after the Natalie Holloway case, so they are doing the better safe than sorry approach now. They are going to use every possible thing to hold him.

The problem with this scenario is that Aruban officials stated that had she drowned there her body would have floated back to shore. So where is her body?

 

[NSS]

All of the life insurance policies that I have ever heard of, require that the person whose life is being ensured sign their consent, unless it's an immediate family member, child, etc. I think they require signatures of consent even for spouses now. That is to prevent someone from ensuring the life of a stranger or someone they intend to kill. How could this happen without her consent or did she consent? Why would you do that?

Just watched a documentary style report where Wal Mart insured their older employees. Totally legal and most employees and their next of kin were unaware.

The 'storyline' behind this info was a lady whose husband died at work, Wal Mart gave her a 'payment', she later learned that he was insured by them for 10 times the amount she got. She was angry, hence the program.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Dailymotion - New Developments in Robyn Gardner Case - a News & Politics video

This video says there was a witness who only saw Gary heading to the beach, without Robyn. No times given unfortunately.

 

[annalia]

I kept saying from the beginning that his plan was to take *advertiser censored* photos/video. He did it with past girlfriends and I thought and think he did with Robyn.

I've always thought he deceived her, and lead her on, that he wanted to take "modeling" shots of her on Aruba. Only, his brand of modeling was *advertiser censored*.

The article says the shots were beyond *advertiser censored*. Were they sadistic? I hated to even suggest it, but I wondered if he could have gone beyond sadism and into snuff material.

Drinking vodka, GG says sleeping pills ( more likely a date rape drug) on top of it. Was she even conscious?

 

[defense101]

I kept saying from the beginning that his plan was to take *advertiser censored* photos/video. He did it with past girlfriends and I thought and think he did with Robyn.

I've always thought he deceived her, and lead her on, that he wanted to take "modeling" shots of her on Aruba. Only, his brand of modeling was *advertiser censored*.

I have a few questions about these purported beyond pornographic pictures. I would be assuming the ALE have his camera there, is this where these pictures are from if so who released this information. Next question is what is beyond pornographic???I would garner a guess that these photos are possibly among his collection taken from his surveillance cameras. I think this is spin put out by GG's side to ruin the reputation of the victim imo

 

[otto]

you're right, now the question comes in is did RG agree?

In her highschool yearbook, she said she wanted to be a stewardess. She became a housewife for 9 or so years, and then had a job scheduling appointments in a dentist's office. That doesn't sound like someone interested in getting into the *advertiser censored* industry, and if she was aiming for some sort of reality show - *advertiser censored* shots would have completely eliminated any chance of that.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

you're right, now the question comes in is did RG agree?

No she didn't know this was part of the trip, IMO. She had sent Gary a message "Get me out of here" not "Let's go shoot some *advertiser censored* in Aruba." MOO.

However, Gary felt entitled to having his way, and likely got angry when she refused. Robyn felt very unsafe and cornered. This is where I put her comment "This sucks". She was also under the influence of drugs and alcohol, deliberately an attempt to impair her judgment. MOO.

ETA: Sorry I answered a question you didn't ask - I thought you were referring to the photos and now see it was the insurance policy.

 

[otto]

No she didn't know this was part of the trip, IMO. She had sent Gary a message "Get me out of here" not "Let's go shoot some *advertiser censored* in Aruba." MOO.

However, Gary felt entitled to having his way, and likely got angry when she refused. Robyn felt very unsafe and cornered. This is where I put her comment "This sucks". She was also under the influence of drugs and alcohol, deliberately an attempt to impair her judgment. MOO.

Are you thinking the photos were of nonconcentual acts and all she said after the fact was "this sucks"?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Are you thinking the photos were of nonconcentual acts and all she said after the fact was "this sucks"?

I think "nonconcentual" is not a term I would use. I think she resisted and was not into it, but gave in to his demands and went with it to try to keep him from getting more angry.

It's a different woman and a different event, but compare this woman's report on Gary in 2010 (posted earlier - transcribed from abc video):

I prepared to leave after speaking with my daughter. Gary was angry and ordered me to stay. We drank wine and by 8 p.m., we argued about his past sexual lifestyle as a swinger. I prepared to leave again, but he pushed me into his bed where I stood near the footboard. My clothes were on and I had my period, which I told Gary. He pushed my dress up and pulled out my tampon, throwing it on the floor. We bagan to have sex. I couldn't look at him, so I turned over. He tried to have anal sex, but I protested. Then, he started to bite me - on my face, neck and breast and buttocks. I turned over to face him and he started to choke me with his bare hands. He then shoved his fingers down my throat. I was struggling and gagging.He then pushed my head onto his (?). I sat quietly and was crying. I told him that I wanted to go home. He protested, then told me to stop being a victim. He got angrier as I got my clothes on, so I huddled on the floor and kept quiet. Moments later, when he went to the bathroom, I ran out and drove home. On 4-16-10 I filled a police report in Montogomery Co. On 4-20-10 I filed assault...

It's a very disturbing and forced sexual assault, with fluctuating levels of protest during the incident, such as when he wanted anal sex.

I contrast it with that incident to convey that I think Robyn went with it to appease Gary's demands, but that she was not into it.

Ultimately, Gary may have been fearful she would be reporting him to the police, so killed her after raping her on that last day she was seen alive. MOO.