ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 4

[annalia]

JE is a pseudonym on an anonymous account, but he's correct. Local rumors/stories are rampant. There is a definite connection with the involved parties and local 'key clubs' and exchanges, but I have nothing of solid evidence (yet) to validate it. RF may have been/is infatuated with RG beyond a degree of mutual agreement in that community, but she allowed him (among others) to feed and support her. I speculate, and I'll stop before I violate the rules. When everything is released, there are going to be some shocked people..... I have no doubt that GG has a lot more to say..... but I know that everyone else from RG to CJ (ad nauseum) has more to say as well..... and they don't want the full truth released. Embarrassing stuff, the skeletons in the closet...... Recall the public statement from CJ that GG and RG met on "Match.com"..... falsehood. Someone needs to do a local search within 25 miles of Frederick/Gaithersburg on adultfriendfinder, ashleymadison, DC area swinger sites, etc..... Both GG and RG are there. Just need to dig. Victimology. There's a deeper story here. The poor girl was caught in the middle of it.

My bolding

You know that there is a "definite" connection with the involved parties and local key clubs, but you have no evidence.

You have "no doubt" and you "know" that everyone from RG to CJ don't want the full truth revealed, but you have no evidence.

You know that CJ's statement that they met on Match.com is a falsehood, but you have no evidence.

Ok

 

[annalia]

The question is not, how can they prove she didn't accidentally down. That will be a question if they find her body (with no signs of any other cause of death). The question is, how can they prove she is dead?

The answer is, basically, circumstantial evidence. I could try to lay out the case bit by bit, but it would take a while and I just don't have time. A good example of how such a case can be successfully prosecuted would be the case of Olivia Hope and Ben Smart in New Zealand. No bodies were ever found an no one (other than the killer) ever saw them dead or even harmed. But a man is serving time right now for their murder, based on a circumstantial case.

Thanks, I'll look up that case as I'm not familiar with that one.

What is the circumstantial evidence that we know for sure? The insurance policy, witness statements that contradict his story, he booked another flight and tried to leave the island early. There's more but I'm drawing a blank.

 

[deanna82437]

CHRISTINA JONES, ROBYN GARDNER`S BEST FRIEND: Well, I think you said it best it`s that she`s a victim. You know, I know that Robyn -- I don`t know that Robyn was on adultfriendfinder.com and I really don`t even care at this point.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/31/ijvm.01.html

BBM
Freudian slip? Or not? Saw a replay of that this am and it caught my ear.

 

[concentric]

Honestly you are not going to find RG on AFF. I explained before knowing from experience (ex-husband was found to be on it causing our divorce) you aren't on there with your real name. If you try to search for her you will look forever. But she could have been doing photo shoots for some of their advertisement for chats, webcams, etc.

-----------

JMO: Was there someone GVG knew in Aruba or near Aruba who had a boat? I think that GVG lured RG to Aruba with the expectation of doing some photos/filming for "adult" materials, this being part of the reason for GVG and RG to meet several times prior to the trip. However, during this excursion, she realized that he was not going to help her break into the business. This is why I think the argument in the hotel happened. He possibly kept promising her that they meet while in Aruba with some deal makers, and somehow those appts. kept getting cancelled.

However, he may have had his own agenda in mind where he could have "passed her off" to someone, or shared her with someone he was in contact with possibly on that swingers network, to get her off of the island. And, that could be the reason for not finding her body.

This is why I also think there is much to be gleaned from the computer forensics about various parties involved with GVG.

 

[Dushi]

At the end of the 60 days, prosecutors can ask the judge to extend the detention further or they can bring him to trial. Solicitor General Taco Stein said they are considering a range of possible charges, including murder, manslaughter, accidental death and insurance fraud

http://aruba-daily.com/newspaper/?p=3855


Can someone be charged with accidental death?

 

[plaidmom]

While searching for those facts I don't feel we are being a victim friendly forum when throwing out ideas of the victim being in a swinger community...

Snipped by me.

Just a reminder that not everyone feels that being a "swinger" or polyamorous is a negative trait.

Look at it this way: if GG, RF and RG are all in open relationships, that means RG was NOT a liar or a cheater. I consider that a very victim-friendly POV! :twocents:

 

[plaidmom]

Has it been discussed if RF has any connection whatsoever with GG. Have they met, has it been investigated, etc.

I've wondered this too. Funny that interviewers ask CJ if she knows/has met GG. Has anyone come right out and asked the same of RF?:waitasec:

Supposedly RF believed that GG was RG's platonic gay friend. If they had been dating for two years, why wouldn't the two men have met???

Swinging wildly the other way (pun intended) to some of the rumors swirling around, if the three were part of that particular social sub-set, again it seems odd that the two men would not have met at a club or party or something.

I suppose the third option is that RG really was leading some sort of secret double life and poor RF was clueless.

 

[concentric]

JMO: I don't think that Robyn was content having a conventional job, for instance, the dental office scheduling. She wanted to do something glamorous. I gather this from her modeling interests, her being on that site to be selected as a reality show participant, possible surgical, dental enhancements.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have a conventional life. However, I do think she fell prey to a con artist.

 

[Peliman]

Another GMA story saying much of what we know but at the end mentions a witness seeing two towels on the beach where they went swimming. She reports finding it unusual seeing the dress away from the towels.


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/aruba-mystery-judge-suspect-custody-14426695

 

[Magdalyn]

At the end of the 60 days, prosecutors can ask the judge to extend the detention further or they can bring him to trial. Solicitor General Taco Stein said they are considering a range of possible charges, including murder, manslaughter, accidental death and insurance fraud

http://aruba-daily.com/newspaper/?p=3855


Can someone be charged with accidental death?

BBM
I don't know this for fact, but I'm thinking in Aruba, it might be a lesser offense, beneath manslaughter, perhaps? I mean, I can't imagine why Taco Stein would mention the charge if he couldn't use it.

That being said, I don't think the Aruban legal definition of 'accidental death' is as ... innocent? as, say, Robyn Gardner's AMEX policy would describe accidental death. In other words, if 'accidental death' is a criminal offense in Aruba, I'm guessing if those charges are leveled, there's a level of avoidability/resposibility of the defendant in the assumption of events. :waitasec:

We need an "Ask an Aruban Lawyer" section, STAT! :crazy:

ETA: http://www.aruba.com/explorearuba/islandfacts/law.aspx
This doesn't answer the immediate question, but gives a bit of overview of their legal system. Note: more info if you click on the hyperlink at the bottom of the page.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

Most jurisdictions have a concept of chargeable accidental death. Here, it might be generally referred to as "negligent homicide". For example, if you run into someone in your car in an auto accident, and they die, you might be charged with negligent homicide of some sort.

Note, this is usually different from the kind homicide where someone either "intends to cause bodily harm but instead causes death," or where the person "intends to commit a crime (such as burglary or rape) and also causes death". In those kinds of cases, it's usually charged as murder (variously defined), or "intentional homicide". Intentional homicide does not necessarily require an intent to kill, but can involve an intent to do something else bad and a recklessness sufficient to result in death. Negligent homicide usually means the defendant did not intend to commit a crime.

 

[deanna82437]

Another GMA story saying much of what we know but at the end mentions a witness seeing two towels on the beach where they went swimming. She reports finding it unusual seeing the dress away from the towels.


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/aruba-mystery-judge-suspect-custody-14426695

Is this the first mention of the dress being found?

 

[Magdalyn]

JMO: I don't think that Robyn was content having a conventional job, for instance, the dental office scheduling. She wanted to do something glamorous. I gather this from her modeling interests, her being on that site to be selected as a reality show participant, possible surgical, dental enhancements.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have a conventional life. However, I do think she fell prey to a con artist.

BBM
Perhaps. Or she thought she could con a con? Or she's just one of those people who seems to like to immerse herself in drama, therefore, risky behavior gives her short term emotional benefits/highs.

I can't marry myself to one single victimology as of yet. Cause I've known/worked with women who were/are as you described above. But more often, those women weren't 'babes in the woods' and went in with their eyes open. I think that might be more likely with Robyn, she knew he was 'risky', but she thought she could 'handle him'.

And I've known a couple of women who thrived on/sought out 'drama' .... repeatedly. They're like magnets. I'm not speaking of seeking out your own death, but more ... seemingly purposefully choosing the riskiest choice as the benefits offer the highest instant payout ... and the thrill is the highest.

There's also a chance that Robyn didn't tell ANYONE the complete truth about her motivations for doing anything and they could interview everyone she knows and never agree on 'the Robyn I knew'...

All that said, no matter what her ideals, plans, motivations, etc, she didn't deserve what she (presumably) got.

 

[Dushi]

Is this the first mention of the dress being found?

It is the first time i have heard about towels or the dress

 

[kljohnson0458]

Is this the first mention of the dress being found?

Wind could have blown the dress, she may have veen posing for pics and dropped the dress where this witness saw it. Doesn't seem odd to me I guess because these two just aren't the norm in some behavior. Just want her found. ETA: Looks like a pretty backdrop for some pics.

Why are these witnesses holding back so long?

 

[annalia]

A witness sees the towels and her dress, did she see anyone in the water or snorkel gear?

 

[Peliman]

Is this the first mention of the dress being found?

Well in fairness I don't know it was found. The witness supposedly reports seeing two towel's but found it unusual the dress was away from the towel's. Not much info to conclude LE has the dress but it's possible.

I'm curious if LE found towel's and dress on the beach or some type of scene.

If so, it's the first I've heard of it.

 

[Yellow Rose]

It is the first time i have heard about towels or the dress

First time I'd heard of it too. But I thought they never recovered a single bit of clothing belonging to RG. So are they now saying they recovered the dress? Did she wade in to get away from GG and that's when he attacked and tried to smother/strangle her? Because IMO he premeditated this woman's demise. He forged her signature on a 1.5 million life insurance policy, used her in Aruba, got his photos and videos to re-live, then "drowned" her. What he did with her body I haven't for the life of me figured out.

Seems like the news articles and/or clips keep "slipping" out a detail (previously lacking) or two that's new.

 

[Elley Mae]

Have been away for a few days and am seeing " now "about the dress and towels? I just don't know what to believe as truth or just rumors. I see that the talking heads are still saying GG tried to cash in the insurance policy. When what I read from early on was he wanted to know if it paid out for the search effort. At this time I am not sure what will come out unless or until her body surfaces or she comes forward. Not saying I think she's alive, but without a body we really don't know. I don't know what to think of RF.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I guess I don't see anything wrong with trying to connect all the dots with GVG, RG, RF, CJ and others. I had mentioned many days ago that I had heard a rumor about AFF and that I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the truth. Can we not agree that the mentality of a person that is living a risky lifestyle versus a person that is not living a risky lifestyle...might possibly explain this relationship and how this possibly could have happened???

I know RG is a victim and we are a victim friendly site...BUT I do believe all of this may connect the dots into WHY this happened. I do hope they locate her so that her family may have some closure and GVG is prosecuted for his wrongdoings. I also hope this will help others see that certain actions and lifestyles can put a person at the mercy of monsters.

Snipped by me.

Just a reminder that not everyone feels that being a "swinger" or polyamorous is a negative trait.

Look at it this way: if GG, RF and RG are all in open relationships, that means RG was NOT a liar or a cheater. I consider that a very victim-friendly POV! :twocents:

I have even speculated some stuff about RG that was negative, but I didn't put it out there like I had some "definite" secret info but can't supply proof yet, etc. That's not fair to the victim IMO.

This is from the mod's first post in this thread:

Please continue here and remember all my previous admonitions AND make note of my new ones:

Victim Friendly

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior,good or bad is fine, but do so in a civl and constructive way and ONLY IF IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CASE. Additionally,sleuthing family members that are not suspected of being involved in the crime or disappearance is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement. However that does not mean that family members cannot come into discussion as the facts and issues of the case are discussed.

Rumors are damaging. I am sure we all have our own stories when people had some false information about us that was being spread by someone.

The point is, I think we are all here to discover the truth. You can't do that with info that is false, except as a means to follow the trail of lies. But using false information about the victim to make conclusions with regard to her personal life is not productive to a websleuth or to the reputation of the victim.

This case has a lot of conflicting data because the media gets more website hits and neilson ratings with each new story, and because there are attempts to protect Robyn's reputation by her friends. It's a type of story the media runs with. I am afraid that some in the media are willing to invent evidence just to keep the news cycle fresh with new material.

Thus I am wary of allegations about the victim presented as more than speculation.

I think we should remember that RG is a daughter, a sister, and a friend of many out there in Frederick, Maryland and discuss the case with respect to the truth and refraining from accusations not supported by proof, or presented as such without being called opinion and/or speculation.

:twocents:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ht_robyn_gardner_ll_110811_wg.jpg