ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 4

[otto]

You conveniently left out a word which took it out of context.

It says "technical investigation team". Could very well be Aruba's investigation team.

Thank you for the quote. It doesn't state that TS is saying ABC was just making it all up, that there was no leak or source.

This: "maar daar hebben wij helemaal geen informatie over" says that they have altogether no information about it, meaning that if ABC is reporting it, it did not come from the investigation ... or, that ABC is indeed making it all up.

http://www.rnw.nl/caribiana/article/gary-giordano-60-dagen-langer-vast

 

[otto]

ok -here's a quote from you (otto) in Thread #1 post 608. Hoping the picture attached shows up! From the south tip of the island to the hotel marked - not enough time to drive? Is it a windy road - doesn't "look" that far away - considering they left at 4:13pm and he's not seen until 6:02pm.

That should be about 12 miles through residential areas so I think it could take maybe 40-45 minutes at least each way ... but that's a guess. They left the cafe at 4:12ish and then went down the dirt road to the SE tip of the Island where they were seen by the fisherman, so that 1h45m wasn't all unaccounted for.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Given that that is a mighty accusation to make, isn't it wise, if we want to consider ourselves to be real sleuthers, to make sure that it is we who have all of our facts straight first?

The Dutch translation is now in dispute. Maybe we can get some more confirmation on it. I just tried another translation website:

Original:

Geen bloedsporen
In tegenstelling tot wat door verschillende media wordt gemeld, zijn er volgens het OM geen bloedsporen gevonden op de lokatie waar Gardner zou zijn gaan snorkelen. “Het verhaal van de bloederige handafdruk is in ieder geval een onzin verhaal”, vertelt Stein.

Ook zou Giordano vlak na de verdwijning van Gardner zijn gezien met bloedsporen in zijn hals. Stein: “Dat verhaal is door ABC Television de wereld in geholpen, maar daar hebben wij helemaal geen informatie over. Dat zou ik na moeten gaan bij het technisch recherche-team.”

Translated:

No bloedsporenIn antagonism to what is communicated by several mediums, according to Public Prosecution Service no blood tracks have been found on the location where Gardner would be will snorkel. The tale of the bloody hand impression is in any case a nonsense tale, tells Stein.Ook Giordano shortly after disappearance of Gardner have been seen with blood tracks in its neck. Stein: That tale by ABC Television the world has been helped in, but there has we no information left. That I after must go at the technical recherche-team.

http://www.rnw.nl/caribiana/article/gary-giordano-60-dagen-langer-vast

Whatever he is saying there, I think alerting CNN and Martin Savidge to this comment by Stein could lead to further attempts to clarify it. I can tell you with certainty that ABC has had numerous points in their articles contested by Stein. It is worth looking into, and worth notifying CNN about. The dubious reporting by ABC has been a frustrating element to this case and needs to stop. CNN will look into it, or not. Telling them about it has no consequence beyond that.

 

[otto]

The Dutch translation is now in dispute. Maybe we can get some more confirmation on it. I just tried another translation website:

Original:



Translated:


http://www.rnw.nl/caribiana/article/gary-giordano-60-dagen-langer-vast

Whatever he is saying there, I think alerting CNN and Martin Savidge to this comment by Stein could lead to further attempts to clarify it. I can tell you with certainty that ABC has had numerous points in their articles contested by Stein. It is worth looking into, and worth notifying CNN about. The dubious reporting by ABC has been a frustrating element to this case and needs to stop. CNN will look into it, or not. Telling them about it has no consequence beyond that.

There are nuances in language that just don't translate well ... but I'm not convinced that the automatic virtual translators help. Either way, everyone has to choose the source that seems to make the most sense. One person disagreeing that Stein said that the info reported by ABC did not come from the investigation puts the translation in doubt? I'm shaking my head here ... not sure what to say.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

There are nuances in language that just don't translate well ... but I'm not convinced that the automatic virtual translators help. Either way, everyone has to choose the source that seems to make the most sense. One person disagreeing that Stein said that the info reported by ABC did not come from the investigation puts the translation in doubt? I'm shaking my head here ... not sure what to say.

I am not doubting your translation. Thanks for your help.

 

[Tugela]

If FBI want to question Giordano according to Aruban law - without a lawyer for hours, months at a time, they should abide by Aruban law and not attempt to indict him the US as well.

... can't have it both ways, so what do the FBI hope to achieve by requesting that interpol become involved ... that the FBI can quesiton GVG per Aruban law (without a lawyer for a couple of months) and use that information to prosecute him in the US, or that they can question GVG per US law for prosecution in the US? If they want to prosecute him in the US based on US law-type questioning and laws, then they should wait their turn ...this is a case of a missing woman in Aruba and no countries but Aruba, the Curacaos and the Netherlands have jurisdiction over the interrogations.

My understanding is that that there are restrictions on who can be present at these interogations. If the accused cannot have their lawyer present I doubt that foreign law enforcement officials would be allowed either.

 

[Tugela]

In the video the attorney says GG can't be charged with murder in the United States. Perhaps he is not aware of the Alabama (murder of wife in Australia) case?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/03/earlyshow/saturday/main20101338.shtml

They can only make that charge if they can prove that the conspiracy originated in the US. If it was a spur of the moment thing they cannot charge.

In the case you cited, the accused wasn't convicted of murdering his wife in Australia, he was convicted of manslaughter on the grounds that he had failed to render assistance when he reasonably could be expected to. Basically he panicked and made the wrong decision, so she died and he was held accountable.

As to what will happen in Alabama, that is up in the air. US juries are notorious for convicting/aquiting on emotion rather than facts, so it is anyones guess as to what will happen. I would think though that if there wasn't evidence for a murder conviction in Australia there should equally be no evidence in Alabama.

 

[otto]

My understanding is that that there are restrictions on who can be present at these interogations. If the accused cannot have their lawyer present I doubt that foreign law enforcement officials would be allowed either.

I agree. It makes perfect sense to me that the FBI is not allowed to question a suspect being investigated for murder in another country. The Dutch have their own investigative teams that are familiar with the laws and procedures in Aruba and the FBI probably know very little about foreign investigative laws and procedures.

 

[Tugela]

As per my prior post #238--Looks like the new article out of Aruba confirms they have"'ZIP"---Oh, sorry, prosecutor can charge GG with "Drunkenness of Robyn Gardner" WTH is that about? How is that a crime????

Most likely it would be aimed at a manslaughter charge. You can be held criminally accountable in some foreign jurisdictions if someone dies accidently as a result of reckless or irresponsible behaviour on your part.

The argument would be that if she was intoxicated, and he was aware of that, but went snorkeling anyway, then he could be held accountable.

 

[Tugela]

“Dat verhaal is door ABC Television de wereld in geholpen, maar daar hebben wij helemaal geen informatie over." I'm a little confused about the "technical team" remark as well. I suspect it is a flippant remark from Stein suggesting that the ABC technical team has to provide answers about the source.

The "technical team" would be the Aruban LE investigators working on the case.

 

[otto]

Most likely it would be aimed at a manslaughter charge. You can be held criminally accountable in some foreign jurisdictions if someone dies accidently as a result of reckless or irresponsible behaviour on your part.

The argument would be that if she was intoxicated, and he was aware of that, but went snorkeling anyway, then he could be held accountable.

But he was drinking too. If two drunk people do something stupid or dangerous, how can the one be responsible for the actions and decisions of the other?

 

[otto]

The "technical team" would be the Aruban LE investigators working on the case.

Maybe he was suggesting that the investigative team has to explain why ABC news is reporting information that is simply not part of the investigation, but there's no reason to believe that the investigative team is responsible for the incorrect information reported by ABC news. Maybe ABC news is reporting local gossip.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

There are nuances in language that just don't translate well ... but I'm not convinced that the automatic virtual translators help. Either way, everyone has to choose the source that seems to make the most sense. One person disagreeing that Stein said that the info reported by ABC did not come from the investigation puts the translation in doubt? I'm shaking my head here ... not sure what to say.

LOL! Wonder if we should put the lip readers "translation in doubt". The whole idea of using "lip readers" is just weird---if they were screaming at each other, shouldn't they have found someone who actually heard that altercation??

 

[i.b.nora]

I am not sure why one would notify CNN, and specifically Martin Savidge about alleged egregious reporting by someone at ABC. ??? Good grief.

The common denominator here is Taco Stein and the Aruban 'authorities'. That is the person and persons who is/are manipulating the story, imo.

The news agencies are trying to report.

Shades of Natalee Holloway case.

 

[otto]

I am not sure why one would notify CNN, and specifically Martin Savidge about alleged egregious reporting by someone at ABC. ??? Good grief.

The common denominator here is Taco Stein and the Aruban 'authorities'. That is the person and persons who is/are manipulating the story, imo.

The news agencies are trying to report.

Shades of Natalee Holloway case.

The Aruban authorities are publicly stating that information about bloody handprints on the rocks and scratches on the neck did not come from them and are not facts of the investigation. ABC is reporting that this is evidence in the investigation. Whom should we believe? Where is ABC getting the information that they are reporting if it's not coming from the investigation?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I am not sure why one would notify CNN, and specifically Martin Savidge about alleged egregious reporting by someone at ABC. ??? Good grief.

The common denominator here is Taco Stein and the Aruban 'authorities'. That is the person and persons who is/are manipulating the story, imo.

The news agencies are trying to report.

Shades of Natalee Holloway case.

There are two common denominators - Taco Stein and ABC. One of them is wrong. Asking another media outlet to look into it seems logical to me, perhaps you can enlighten me how this is foolish. Also, explain to me how one should jump to the conclusion Aruban authorities are the ones spreading disinformation. If anything, they are keeping their evidence under wraps and have made no attempts to manipulate the story.

 

[annalia]

There are two common denominators - Taco Stein and ABC. One of them is wrong. Asking another media outlet to look into it seems logical to me, perhaps you can enlighten me how this is foolish. Also, explain to me how one should jump to the conclusion Aruban authorities are the ones spreading disinformation. If anything, they are keeping their evidence under wraps and have made no attempts to manipulate the story.

My bolding

Then how did Julia Renfro, a small time local reporter, know exactly what was on the photos?

 

[i.b.nora]

I repeat, the common denominator is Taco Stein and the Aruban authorities and investigators.

From a CNN / HLN transcript:

"DIAZ: Now, there were also reports of a bloody hand print, but Taco Stein is backing off from that claim now.

Martin Savidge, I want to go back to you very, very quickly. What about that bloody hand print? Is it rumor or real?

SAVIDGE: No, it appears at this point it is not real. Authorities really are playing that down. They say it never existed. Unfortunately, if it had existed, that could have been a key piece of evidence. Of course, one, it could have indicated that you really had a strong sense of foul play. Also if you could check it with DNA you could have perhaps learned a lot.

But they say no; that was not the case. Same with what was described as an unused condom. That also has not been found.

There is a lot of misinformation you will find on this island which is why the reporting has to be very careful."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/22/ijvm.01.html

 

[AngelFish]

I don't think they had enough time to go from the cafe, to the SE tip near Baby Beach, back to the hotel and then back to the cafe where GVG claims that Robyn disappeared while snorkelling.

From their hotel to the Cafe is about a 15-20 minute drive. It is a small Island. The Rum Reef Cafe is on the same road to get to Baby Beach, might take you 1-2 minutes to drive.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

My bolding

Then how did Julia Renfro, a small time local reporter, know exactly what was on the photos?

I don't know. I have been following her name ever since and she has come up with no other scoops on this case. It doesn't appear her source gave her access to anything else on this story.