Ask Super Part 3

[BBB167893]

I'd like to ask Super Dave a super stupid question....I've not read about this anywhere before, and after a bit of research, I can't get this possibility out of my mind. From my understanding the Ramsey's house was built around the 1920's. Is it possible the house has a hidden room??? From reading about the Lumber Baron in Boulder, it seems as though hidden rooms were in vogue back in the '20s.

From what I read in ST's book, the police thought about that. They didn't find any hidden rooms. They even went through the crawlspace.

 

[mcsmom]

Has anyone looked at the Boulder Star and circumstances behind that in regard to SBTC? At Christmas the cross was deemed unconstitutional and removed, the star remained eventually a symbol for Iran Contra hostages?

 

[Peepers]

Finally got ST's book in the mail today (Thanks TheBookDepository)....before I begin reading, any caveats you'd like to offer up?

Its a good book. I do admire ST taking a stand for what he believes, I just dont agree with his theory, I think his hatred for the R's and the circumstances that followed with the DA clouded things a bit for him.

 

[UKGuy]

UKguy, I think you have an interesting take on ST's book...I think the strength of that book is the behind the scenes relationships between the police and the DA's office and the attorneys in the case.

twinkiesmom,

For me it appears as if ST via BPD were saying PDI was the only game in town, yet there is more evidence, never mind all the expert opinions suggesting not just acute sexual molestation but also chronically.

I think by adopting PDI they were hoping to drive a wedge between Patsy and John. They saw Patsy as the weak link in the Ramsey defense, subsequently, they have been proven correct. Just look at the verbatim transcripts with Patsy lying outright.


.

 

[DeeDee249]

Its a good book. I do admire ST taking a stand for what he believes, I just dont agree with his theory, I think his hatred for the R's and the circumstances that followed with the DA clouded things a bit for him.

I don't think he hated the Rs. I think he though they were lying. I think he thought Patsy killed her daughter. I think he knew their money and political connections (through their defense team) were preventing them from being prosecuted. But hate them? I don't think he did.

 

[MurriFlower]

From what I read in ST's book, the police thought about that. They didn't find any hidden rooms. They even went through the crawlspace.

Well, that's the thing about hidden rooms, they aren't easy to find, and the old BPD weren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

Notice how the storage area off the laundry in the basement has a window? This is the window that is open with a chair under it.

This window opens under the area where the writing pad was situated. There are a few weird 'voids' on this plan, and I draw your attention to an area between the kitchen and the lower hall (also called the butler pantry) and what looks like a closet at one end with another closet in the basement directly below. There was also supposedly a laundry chute that isn't shown. Another void in the basement is directly under the entry on the first floor. This is aside from the 'crawl space' in the basement.

There was also something I can't find at present, about the basement bathroom and a small window directly above on the first floor. It was investigated to see if someone could have climbed up but was dismissed as too small. So I think there may have been an area down there that could have been used to hide something in or even large enough for someone to walk around outside the basement walls but still under the house.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Speculation on a "hidden room": Her body may have been placed there and when JR realized her body was never going to be found by LE, he moved her out into the WC. I have no clue if there was a hidden room, but I do believe JR moved her body when he realized it was not going to be found.

 

[mcsmom]

Well, that's the thing about hidden rooms, they aren't easy to find, and the old BPD weren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

Notice how the storage area off the laundry in the basement has a window? This is the window that is open with a chair under it.

This window opens under the area where the writing pad was situated. There are a few weird 'voids' on this plan, and I draw your attention to an area between the kitchen and the lower hall (also called the butler pantry) and what looks like a closet at one end with another closet in the basement directly below. There was also supposedly a laundry chute that isn't shown. Another void in the basement is directly under the entry on the first floor. This is aside from the 'crawl space' in the basement.

There was also something I can't find at present, about the basement bathroom and a small window directly above on the first floor. It was investigated to see if someone could have climbed up but was dismissed as too small. So I think there may have been an area down there that could have been used to hide something in or even large enough for someone to walk around outside the basement walls but still under the house.

Do you know where is the metal grate is in location to the Stanton's house?

 

[BBB167893]

Its a good book. I do admire ST taking a stand for what he believes, I just dont agree with his theory, I think his hatred for the R's and the circumstances that followed with the DA clouded things a bit for him.

That's odd, Peepers, because at no point did I get the idea that he hated the Rs at all. The DA, yes, but as I've said in the past, that line went around the block.

 

[BBB167893]

Well, that's the thing about hidden rooms, they aren't easy to find, and the old BPD weren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

Sharp enough to use the same X-Ray machines the Army uses to see through walls, Murri.

 

[DeeDee249]

If the "secret room" was so secret that the BPD couldn't find it despite sophisticated x-ray equipment, how did the intruder/SFF?JMK know it was there?

The fact is that the house underwent several major renovations, one before the Rs even owned it. And one after, by new owner. None turned up any secret rooms.

 

[MurriFlower]

If the "secret room" was so secret that the BPD couldn't find it despite sophisticated x-ray equipment, how did the intruder/SFF?JMK know it was there?

The fact is that the house underwent several major renovations, one before the Rs even owned it. And one after, by new owner. None turned up any secret rooms.

Well, I was talking hidden rather than secret (as in the movies with the revolving book case). Even the wine cellar was referrred to as a 'hidden room'! There is an area under the hall, that could be accessed from that open store room window in the basement, the one with the chair under it. It's possible this leads around to the area (shaded blue on the plan) beside the lower hall/pantry and that it can be accessed via a trap door in the closet. That doesn't require an x-ray machine, but just a bit of common sense. Any tradesman would have been able to find it.

 

[DeeDee249]

Well, I was talking hidden rather than secret (as in the movies with the revolving book case). Even the wine cellar was referrred to as a 'hidden room'! There is an area under the hall, that could be accessed from that open store room window in the basement, the one with the chair under it. It's possible this leads around to the area (shaded blue on the plan) beside the lower hall/pantry and that it can be accessed via a trap door in the closet. That doesn't require an x-ray machine, but just a bit of common sense. Any tradesman would have been able to find it.

Exactly. But no one ever did, despite all the searches and renovations. Not every home built in those days had a hidden room behind a bookcase or wall panel.

OT- Marie Antoinette was saved (from the first bands of marauding hordes, not from her eventual execution) by a secret room behind a well-disguised section of a wall in her bedroom. The wall panel, covered with tapestry wallpaper, opened with a touch- behind it was her dressing room and a secret staircase not visible from the dressing room, that led out of her suite of rooms. She ran, still in her nightclothes, to join her husband and children. They escaped Versailles disguised as servants, but were captured when someone recognized the king. She lost a shoe- one shoe (like Cinderella in reverse) and that shoe still survives today. One shoe, one bodice and one silk gown (which only survived because it was at her dressmaker's for repair) is all that remains today of her vast wardrobe, though she ordered a brand new dress for each and every day. The rest plundered, burned and stolen in the storming of Versailles. That secret room afforded her many more months of life.
Just a little useless trivia.

 

[MurriFlower]

They escaped Versailles disguised as servants, but were captured when someone recognized the king.

Yeah, that crown was a dead give-away LOL.

 

[Ames]

Speculation on a "hidden room": Her body may have been placed there and when JR realized her body was never going to be found by LE, he moved her out into the WC. I have no clue if there was a hidden room, but I do believe JR moved her body when he realized it was not going to be found.

I think that too....I believe he moved it when he disappeared for awhile, later saying that he was looking at his mail.

 

[twinkiesmom]

twinkiesmom,

For me it appears as if ST via BPD were saying PDI was the only game in town, yet there is more evidence, never mind all the expert opinions suggesting not just acute sexual molestation but also chronically.

I think by adopting PDI they were hoping to drive a wedge between Patsy and John. They saw Patsy as the weak link in the Ramsey defense, subsequently, they have been proven correct. Just look at the verbatim transcripts with Patsy lying outright.


.

I'm trying to remember back...know that ST was sued...was Schiller sued (and if so, why not?).

 

[Toltec]

Where is the shower in the basement located? Patsy told LE that she placed the stuffed Santa in the basement shower.

 

[MurriFlower]

I think that too....I believe he moved it when he disappeared for awhile, later saying that he was looking at his mail.

It was LA who said she saw him looking at his mail. As he did not disappear, he did not have to give an excuse for being missing. It was LA who lost track of him.

 

[DeeDee249]

It was LA who said she saw him looking at his mail. As he did not disappear, he did not have to give an excuse for being missing. It was LA who lost track of him.

I'd classify JR as walking out of the room where LA was already in charge of all the other decoys, oops, sorry, I meant "friends"- in the room "disappearing". He was not seen in the main areas of the house for almost 2 hours. I'd call that disappearing, and I'd say under the circumstances, he absolutely should have to account for his whereabouts. There was a missing child- HIS child, who suspiciously found right in her own home. His disappearing act didn't fool LA, though she was mistaken about where he was and shouldn't have said what she said about him leaving to get his mail.
However, LA could have kept track of everyone by keeping them all in one room and having her pistol pointed right at them until backup arrived.

 

[MurriFlower]

I'd classify JR as walking out of the room where LA was already in charge of all the other decoys, oops, sorry, I meant "friends"- in the room "disappearing". He was not seen in the main areas of the house for almost 2 hours. I'd call that disappearing, and I'd say under the circumstances, he absolutely should have to account for his whereabouts. There was a missing child- HIS child, who suspiciously found right in her own home. His disappearing act didn't fool LA, though she was mistaken about where he was and shouldn't have said what she said about him leaving to get his mail.
However, LA could have kept track of everyone by keeping them all in one room and having her pistol pointed right at them until backup arrived.

Right, she would have looked even more foolish (if that's possible) if she had held the parents of a kidnap victim, (and their friends and their pastor) at gunpoint in their own home, instead of trying to find their missing daughter!! JR didn't leave the house, nor did he go downstairs and move his daughters body. If LA was off with the fairies, and can't recall what she was doing in this time, it's hardly for him to explain his whereabouts. She's just covering for her inability to explain why she botched it up so badly.