Ask Super Part 3

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Agatha, part of my reasons for my belief that Burke is involved, were his reactions to being told of his sister's death and the ability and statements he made to the effect of 'just wanting to get on with his life.' He also was willing to try and tell the truth at first. He stated JB walked into the house that night, helping to carry in Christmas gifts.

Ask anyone who has lost a sibling and that would most likely NOT be the normal response. If your sibling was killed, in your home, by a kidnapper/murderer, you should feel fear, sadness, anger and a need for justice. Not a cold apathy.


My BOLD It is called denial and often the person acts as if NOTHING has happened they still can't believe it. 1st stage of grief.

Also, the R's I believe, would NOT have covered up a murder that one of them had committed. I believe the truth would have come out at some point. I can see them covering up the murder if their other child had committed the crime. Even if their lawyers had informed them that Burke could not be prosecuted, they would still have to deal with the world knowing their son killed their daughter. In the Ramsey world it was very much about how things looked and what others thought.

They could have kept it quiet with lawyers as JB and Burke were both minors and protected by privacy rules. Turning over Burke when the police got there.
He would normally gone to juvenile lock up first then been evaluated but the R's could have used their influence to get him straight into a mental health care facility approved for incarcerated juveniles. Committing him themselves and then dragging out a private legal battle to keep him there. Claiming he went out of his mind in rage never seen before and they now suspect his previous accident with the golf club was intentional and JB lied to avoid his abuse and endear herself to him. Stockholm's syndrome.


They would have instead had so much public sympathy and not suspicion for murder upon themselves.
Either way Burke had to grow up with the shadow of doubt cast upon his parents. How great is that, what mental health care does he get that would be effective if not incarcerated. Having to accept what he did is needed to deal with the reality of killing a person and having rage issues. I can't see a young man like Burke just being able to control himself so well that he doesn't have serious rage issues at school and in other relationships, girlfriends and such. If he had done anything to harm another child because he has already killed he would have been violent, it would be his nature, his character and to quote John Douglas we always are true to our characters we don't do something outside of it even when we commit a crime. We have heard no such reports. We would have, he wouldn't have been able to control it. Once you do something like that at such an early age it is your nature. It would take years of intense therapy to work through it. More than a weekly or monthly visit to a shrink would accomplish.
 
Is there a way to, well, force is not the word I'm looking for...compel perhaps....Burke to front up to an interview?

I suspect as an adult he would have more trouble maintaining a story now that as a kid when he was protected by his parents.

Again, I'm not saying he did it, but he lived with his parents for many years after the event and you'd be a moron not to think the topic never cropped up.
 
Sunnie, I sooooooo agree. Are you my sister from another mister?

lol, stranger things have happened Agatha!!:dance:

JoeskidBeck, I don't think BPD has solved the case. I think the fact that they are dragging their feet, allowing the R's to still call the shots about whether or not they will answer questions, proves they don't have it worked out. I truly believe if they KNEW Burke was guilty, they would say they had the primary suspect under observation or had spoken with the primary suspect but could not and would not press charges. Unfortunately it is my belief that BR got away with murder and will continue to do so.
 
They could have kept it quiet with lawyers as JB and Burke were both minors and protected by privacy rules. Turning over Burke when the police got there.
He would normally gone to juvenile lock up first then been evaluated but the R's could have used their influence to get him straight into a mental health care facility approved for incarcerated juveniles. Committing him themselves and then dragging out a private legal battle to keep him there. Claiming he went out of his mind in rage never seen before and they now suspect his previous accident with the golf club was intentional and JB lied to avoid his abuse and endear herself to him. Stockholm's syndrome.


They would have instead had so much public sympathy and not suspicion for murder upon themselves.
Either way Burke had to grow up with the shadow of doubt cast upon his parents. How great is that, what mental health care does he get that would be effective if not incarcerated. Having to accept what he did is needed to deal with the reality of killing a person and having rage issues. I can't see a young man like Burke just being able to control himself so well that he doesn't have serious rage issues at school and in other relationships, girlfriends and such. If he had done anything to harm another child because he has already killed he would have been violent, it would be his nature, his character and to quote John Douglas we always are true to our characters we don't do something outside of it even when we commit a crime. We have heard no such reports. We would have, he wouldn't have been able to control it. Once you do something like that at such an early age it is your nature. It would take years of intense therapy to work through it. More than a weekly or monthly visit to a shrink would accomplish.

I have said this before in other threads. How do you know Burke has NOT had other issues, or that he hasn't been in intense, long term therapy? It is possible that he had daily therapy, on going for a LONG period of time. Think about how much we know about the murder from the R's and now think about what they would be capable of in defense and protection of their child. Read some of the other sections of this website. About the awful things children do to eachother at even younger ages than Burke was at the time! How jealousy can lead to horrible murders.

There is no way, with the lack of information available, that Burke could be ruled out as being guilty at this point. Even if his reactions were grief related, shouldn't he have shown fear? Shouldn't he have wondered if he would be kidnapped or murdered next? Wouldn't he wonder why his parents refused to talk to LE or let him be interviewed, especially as he got older? Wouldn't he wonder why his parents lied about him being asleep during the 911 call? Shouldn't at least a few of these reactions, thoughts, feelings have arisen to make him wonder? Or did he already know everything that happened. Did he show no sorrow or fear, because there was no reason for the emotions?

There is NO way we know what Burkes life is, has been or was. We do not know if he has problems with relationships, or what issues he may have. We do know that he was the only person who was on the same floor as Jon Benet, if they were both in bed that night. We also know that LE wants to question him and he has not complied. We also know his reactions to his sisters death. That;s a LOT to know and question.
 
CathyR, Not trying to provoke an argument here, but I'm curious, just how much training/experience do you have in both child development (not just the raising of your own children), and crimes of rage? Not every killer is a serial killer.

And how do you know that he hasn't committed other crimes? Touched other children? Sometimes sex offenders wait years in between their crimes, letting it build until it explodes. Let us also remember, he could have as narcissistic as his parents and had to remove the one and only thing that prevented it from being about just him.

Then you can't rule out that it could have been a game that got out of hand and led to a horrible accident..

Either way, the perfect R's would have been seen as less then perfect...
 
Is there a way to, well, force is not the word I'm looking for...compel perhaps....Burke to front up to an interview?

I suspect as an adult he would have more trouble maintaining a story now that as a kid when he was protected by his parents.

Again, I'm not saying he did it, but he lived with his parents for many years after the event and you'd be a moron not to think the topic never cropped up.

The fact that he is 'of age' and can make his own decisions and chooses NOT to talk with LE, should compel LE to 'bring him in for questioning'. Sure you don't have to say anything, but unless you are a suspect, which he has not been named as one, I thought you had to at least show up? Very bizarre that they can refuse to be interviewed.

Again, the bigger question is why he would not want to co-operate? Let's cowboy up and get this thing solved.
 
I guess you need to go through reasons he would not want to talk.

1. He did it
2. He knows who did it and doesn't want to sully their name/get them chucked in jail
3. He genuinely thinks he has nothing to offer that would help find the killer

So
1. I can understand completely why he wouldn't speak
2. I can understand why he THINKS he shouldn't speak
3. I can't quite comprehend why you wouldn't be doing all you can

All very odd.
 
I need to add one more little thing here. Does anyone remember what Burke told the detective when asked if there was anything he was upset about that morning? It went something like "yeah, I knew our trip to Charlevoix was probably going to be cancelled". Sure thing, that's a little boy that's very upset about his sister's death-NOT. That's a little boy that is glad his sister is out of the way and can't wait to start life as an "only child".
 
Beck, You have hit the nail on the head. Have you looked at his face in photo's before and after her death, very telling.
 
Just curious, but was BR's relationship with Patsy any different after his sisters death, than it was prior to? It does seem as if John was closer to him though. This family is VERY interesting. I think solving the family dynamics help solve the crime.
 
Dave or anyone that can answer this,

I've looked all over, trying to find if fibers from the black velvet pants were found? Curious to know, I'm wondering at the possibility that she wasn't in the long johns prior to the staging. They were close to the washroom area and I'm wondering if they didn't just grab some pants. Perhaps the blue fibers came from the pants she had been changed into when she returned home? Or what about the vest? Why no mention of fibers from these items?

Also for those that are new here, like me or sitting on the fence, I've included a link for you. Its from the 2000 interviews, long eye burning read, but very interesting....

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4773"]Patsy and John Ramsey's Atlanta 2000 Interviews - Forums For Justice[/ame]
 
Dave or anyone that can answer this,

I've looked all over, trying to find if fibers from the black velvet pants were found? Curious to know, I'm wondering at the possibility that she wasn't in the long johns prior to the staging. They were close to the washroom area and I'm wondering if they didn't just grab some pants. Perhaps the blue fibers came from the pants she had been changed into when she returned home? Or what about the vest? Why no mention of fibers from these items?

Also for those that are new here, like me or sitting on the fence, I've included a link for you. Its from the 2000 interviews, long eye burning read, but very interesting....

Patsy and John Ramsey's Atlanta 2000 Interviews - Forums For Justice

Wow, so many IDI theorists talk about the Santa Bear and that it was brought in by the intruder and proves there was an intruder... but, from your link Jon Benet won it in the Little Miss Christmas contest.

This entire interview was more about lawyers arguing with LE then getting to the truth. Very sad. Here is PART of the excerpt concerning the Santa Bear:

20 Q. You recall that. The cry went
21 out for help in locating the origin of the
22 bear. Did you, at some point between our
23 request for assistance and in June of 1998,
24 have an opportunity to rethink the origin of
25 the bear and realize that that was, in fact,
0146
1 JonBenet's Santa Bear?
2 MR. WOOD: I think you meant
3 between your request and December of 1998.
4 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Between June of
5 1998 and our request for help in December of
6 1998 --
7 MR. WOOD: That's right.
8 Q. (By Mr. Levin) -- did your
9 recollection get jogged and you realized that
10 you did, in fact, own the bear?
11 A. No. I mean, it was still a bear
12 that I did not recognize.
13 Q. Have you since that time had
14 anything that has refreshed your recollection
15 in that regard so that you now presently
16 know the source of that bear?
17 A. No.
18 Q. I am going to provide you with
19 some information to see if we can jog your
20 memory. I have seen a videotape taken at a
21 pageant in December, in fact, December 14,
22 1996. I think that was -- was that the
23 last -- I believe that was the last pageant
24 that JonBenet participated in.
25 MR. WOOD: Is that right?
0147
1 Q. (By Mr. Levin) I am asking you
2 if that is your recollection as well.
3 THE WITNESS: Is that the
4 Christmas, one of the Christmas ones down by
5 the --
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. All right.
8 Q. Was that the last formal pageant
9 she participated in?
10 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
11 Q. I have seen a videotape of that.
12 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
13 Q. And in the videotape it shows the
14 prizes.
15 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
16 Q. And that bear is in the videotape
17 with you in the videotape?
18 A. Oh, really?
19 Q. And JonBenet won that bear at
20 that pageant. Assuming that that is a
21 fact --
22 MR. WOOD: And you represent it
23 as fact.
24 MR. LEVIN: I'm representing that
25 it is my belief that that is true, and I
0148
1 have seen videotape that shows what appears
2 to be that bear.
3 MR. WOOD: The question, though,
4 is are you representing it is that bear
5 because there is a difference, and I think
6 you understand it. I haven't seen the
7 videotape that you are referring to, but I
8 mean, you are saying it appears to be.
9 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I would like
10 to see that too because it was my
11 recollection that she won a bear, but it had
12 a little banner on it, and it was like a
13 little angel bear or something. It was all
14 white.
15 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Assuming that
16 that is correct, that, and, of course,
17 perhaps my observations are incorrect, just
18 assuming that, does that refresh your
19 recollection as to the origin of the Santa
20 Bear that we saw?
21 A. Well, this bear that I think she
22 was presented at that pageant did not have
23 Santa, Santa attire. It was a little angel
24 bear, which I have someplace.
25 Q. And just, I don't want to mislead
0149
1 you because I am trying to jog your memory
2 to see if you can help us out here.
3 A. I appreciate that.
4 Q. And Detective Harmer is the one
5 that came up with the videotape.
6 MR. WOOD: I don't suppose we
7 have it.
8 MS. HARMER: No, I don't have it.
9 THE WITNESS: But it is the one
10 in the Santa outfit?
11 MS. HARMER: Can I --
12 MR. LEVIN: Yeah, because we are
13 trying to get Ms. Ramsey to see if we can
14 jog her memory.
15 MS. HARMER: The person who
16 provided the gifts is LaDonna Graygo.
17 THE WITNESS: All right.
18 MS. HARMER: Is she with All
19 Stars or America? I can't remember which.
20 THE WITNESS: I don't remember
21 either.
22 MS. HARMER: Whatever pageant she
23 was in on the 14th of December, and LaDonna
24 was involved in it, that is where the bear
25 came from.
0150
1 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
2 MR. WOOD: According to?
3 THE WITNESS: LaDonna?
4 MS. HARMER: Yes.
5 MR. WOOD: Just so we are clear,
6 we are now talking about two things.
7 MS. HARMER: And the video.
8 MR. WOOD: The video shows a
9 Santa Bear.
10 MS. HARMER: Yes. The video is
11 taken at the same pageant where LaDonna
12 passed out these prizes, one of which was
13 the bear.
14 MR. WOOD: Again, I am just
15 trying to make sure, do you have a video of
16 JonBenet holding or receiving a Santa Bear or
17 are you saying that Santa bears were given
18 out to some of the people there?
19 MS. HARMER: The video shows the
20 Santa Bear on the table.
21 MR. WOOD: Well, the table, who
22 all is in the picture?
23 MR. KANE: Maybe I can clarify
24 it. LaDonna Graygo purchased the bear,
25 purchased the Santa Bear. It was the prize
0151
1 to JonBenet, and she told us the prize that
2 JonBenet was awarded for winning little Ms.
3 Christmas. That was the prize and it was
4 the only bears that she had, and she got it
5 from someplace in Nebraska, a mail order
6 company. I can't remember the name.
7 THE WITNESS: Okay

There is more of course, but this sums up most of the interview. Ramseyspeak at its best.
 
I know! can you believe it? What about the pineapple? Now its an "Urban Legend", but the most wonderful moment for me, was LW's reaction to the Hi Tech boots Burke had owned coming out at the Grand Jury...LMAO....

You learn allot when you read the eye burners.....
 
I know! can you believe it? What about the pineapple? Now its an "Urban Legend", but the most wonderful moment for me, was LW's reaction to the Hi Tech boots Burke had owned coming out at the Grand Jury...LMAO....

You learn allot when you read the eye burners.....

Absolutely right! I think the problem with a lot of the people who are IDIs is that they have never read all these interviews. Yes, they are definately eyeburners, but soooo worth the time and trouble. You get such a clear look into the psyche of John and Patsy, especially Patsy.
 
Absolutely right! I think the problem with a lot of the people who are IDIs is that they have never read all these interviews.

That's the feeling I get.

Yes, they are definately eyeburners, but soooo worth the time and trouble. You get such a clear look into the psyche of John and Patsy, especially Patsy.

The masks fall away.

Incidentally, I'm with CathyR on this one: no way BR did it.
 
Originally Posted by MurriFlower
While you are OK with them bashing, strangling, violating her, covering up and lying, you just don't believe they would have taken the final step which would have completely separated them from the crime, because you say they wanted a 'nice corpse'. Nopey, nope, nope.

Re:

Originally Posted by joeskidbeck
Murri, Patsy confirmed the 'nice corpse' theory when she remarked to Burke about how pretty JB looked in her coffin.

SuperDave said:
Shall we continue?

Well, I figured IDI would be ITCHING to take a shot at me. Here I'm giving them the perfect opportunity, and nothing.
 
Re:





Well, I figured IDI would be ITCHING to take a shot at me. Here I'm giving them the perfect opportunity, and nothing.

Okay, new approach. If anyone here thinks they have a good enough argument to knock me off of my horse, I'm ASKING them to do it. Bring your best argument against this theory. Bring the wrath of God. I want lightning to crash down on my head!
 
Agatha, part of my reasons for my belief that Burke is involved, were his reactions to being told of his sister's death and the ability and statements he made to the effect of 'just wanting to get on with his life.' He also was willing to try and tell the truth at first. He stated JB walked into the house that night, helping to carry in Christmas gifts.

Ask anyone who has lost a sibling and that would most likely NOT be the normal response. If your sibling was killed, in your home, by a kidnapper/murderer, you should feel fear, sadness, anger and a need for justice. Not a cold apathy.

Also, the R's I believe, would NOT have covered up a murder that one of them had committed. I believe the truth would have come out at some point. I can see them covering up the murder if their other child had committed the crime. Even if their lawyers had informed them that Burke could not be prosecuted, they would still have to deal with the world knowing their son killed their daughter. In the Ramsey world it was very much about how things looked and what others thought.

I couldnt agree with you more!
 
I have converted to BDI. I dont think we have heard the last about him.
 
My BDI theory would have started with this tea and pineapple "bussiness".

The kids get home and into their pajamas. JonBenet puts on the pink pajamas she wore the previous night because they are readily available. JonBenet goes downstairs and watches John and Burke put a toy together. John and Patsy are busying themselves for the morning trip to Charlevoix. They lose track of the kids.

JonBenet is hungry because she might have not eaten much at the Whites. She asks Burke to get her a snack. Burke complies. Burke removes the bowl of pineapple from the large refrigerator..places it on the kitchen table and lets Jonbenet go to town. JonBenet eats some pineapple, then she places some in a tupperware bowl to take on the plane. She places the tupperware bowl in her backpack and hangs it over the doorknob in her bedroom. Burke and JonBenet go into Burkes room to play with his awesome new Nintendo64.

Burke is thinking bad thoughts...he removes JonBenets pink pajama bottoms and molests her. Something goes awry and next thing you know, he hits JonBenet over the head with his baseball bat. He panics. He carries, then drags JonBenet to the basement.

Patsy notices JonBenet missing. She searches high and low..and finally discovers her in the basement. She screams for John and they put two and two together and begin the staging process.
 

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