Ask Super Part 3

[BBB167893]

I don't know either, JMO. Ravyn or SuperDave, would one of you please clue us in? I feel like you are keeping a rather good theory secret. Didn't you guys learn in kindergarten to share? :innocent:

It's nothing like that. Ravyn merely suggested that IDIs don't want to engage in serious discussion.

 

[BBB167893]

There's nothing about the ransom note that indicates it was written by JR or PR as a coverup.

Oh, there isn't? How much time have you got?

 

[MurriFlower]

I figured I'd move this here, since it was this line of thought I'd hoped to examine with this thread.

On a side note, it's odd: I created this thread so people could have at me, and I created it with certain people in mind, in the hope that they would point out specific weaknesses. I figured they'd jump at the chance. But they never do. I wonder if Ravyn was right...

I expect that some people have to get on with their lives and have decided to downsize to just one or two threads. It's too time consuming to have to chase all over the forum, reading every post.

So the Southern thing. It's a statement in the RN, so we need to know what it means.

Were they southern or not? Did they want to be southern or did they just identify with the south? Were they ridiculing the south in a perverse way? Why would anyone tell JR to use his good southern common sense if they all knew he wasn't southern? What is southern common sense anyway? Do people from the south consider themselves more intelligent than northeners? Was the RN writer unfamiliar with JR's background? Did this person know OF him but not know him PERSONALLY? Was there anyone else in the 'picture' who was from the south?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I expect that some people have to get on with their lives and have decided to downsize to just one or two threads. It's too time consuming to have to chase all over the forum, reading every post.

So the Southern thing. It's a statement in the RN, so we need to know what it means.

Were they southern or not? Did they want to be southern or did they just identify with the south? Were they ridiculing the south in a perverse way? Why would anyone tell JR to use his good southern common sense if they all knew he wasn't southern? What is southern common sense anyway? Do people from the south consider themselves more intelligent than northeners? Was the RN writer unfamiliar with JR's background? Did this person know OF him but not know him PERSONALLY? Was there anyone else in the 'picture' who was from the south?

Having seen JR on some video clips obviously after the murder, I would never associate him with the stereotypical southern person. It would never occur to me that he did or did not have southern common sense.
PR I actually don't know about. She was Miss Virginia or what? She doesn't strike me as a southerner. I've heard the Louisiana and Georgia accent and neither one have it. The ransom note says 'use that good southern common sense of yours' which has a derogatory tone, IMO. The author would therefore be identifying with the north or non-southern.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Patsy wanted the world to see her as the "genteel Southern Belle", whether or not she was originally from the South. It was a lifestyle for her, not a place of residence. Once she moved to Atlanta, she fell in love with the South and I would have to say that she fit in quite nicely with the Atlanta "In" crowd. Have you ever watched an episode of "Real Housewives of Atlanta"? I did. Once. That was enough for me. Having family from one of the northern states and comparing their branch of the family to mine which has always been here in the South, there is a huge difference, not only in lifestyle and culture, but in the ways that love is shown. That probably doesn't make sense, but I can't think of another way to put it.
Anyway, most Southerners are extremely proud to be from the South and I believe Patsy's family had adopted the way of life. John may not have, that may be the reason they were always telling him to use his "good Southern common sense", it may have pushed his buttons, just a little bit. I think the author of the note knew that it pushed his buttons and that's exactly what was intended. Whoever wrote that note knew how Patsy felt about the South, that's for sure.
BTW, the remark she made in regard to her wearing white shoes to Melinda's wedding. She considered that an insult by whoever stated it. I had no idea that "wearing white after Labor Day" was a Southern thing, but I have known all my life that we ladies dont do it. Patsy would never have considered wearing white shoes after Labor Day or before Easter, period. Wherever she was born, that lady was a true Southerner.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Having seen JR on some video clips obviously after the murder, I would never associate him with the stereotypical southern person. It would never occur to me that he did or did not have southern common sense.
PR I actually don't know about. She was Miss Virginia or what? She doesn't strike me as a southerner. I've heard the Louisiana and Georgia accent and neither one have it. The ransom note says 'use that good southern common sense of yours' which has a derogatory tone, IMO. The author would therefore be identifying with the north or non-southern.

Holdon, the phrase "good Southern common sense" is not meant to be derogatory to anyone. I'm sure someone's grandmother said this 200 years ago to a grandchild that was "acting up" and the phrase stuck. It's that simple. Folks from the South are aware that people elsewhere in this country think we are all a bunch of backwoods hicks, but believe me, nothing could be further from the truth. I have known lots of families that have moved to the South from other parts of the country and would never consider moving back. Yes, there is ignorance here just like there is ignorance everywhere. But please don't make the mistake of thinking it's rampant here because it is not.

 

[MurriFlower]

Patsy wanted the world to see her as the "genteel Southern Belle", whether or not she was originally from the South. It was a lifestyle for her, not a place of residence. Once she moved to Atlanta, she fell in love with the South and I would have to say that she fit in quite nicely with the Atlanta "In" crowd. Have you ever watched an episode of "Real Housewives of Atlanta"? I did. Once. That was enough for me. Having family from one of the northern states and comparing their branch of the family to mine which has always been here in the South, there is a huge difference, not only in lifestyle and culture, but in the ways that love is shown. That probably doesn't make sense, but I can't think of another way to put it.
Anyway, most Southerners are extremely proud to be from the South and I believe Patsy's family had adopted the way of life. John may not have, that may be the reason they were always telling him to use his "good Southern common sense", it may have pushed his buttons, just a little bit. I think the author of the note knew that it pushed his buttons and that's exactly what was intended. Whoever wrote that note knew how Patsy felt about the South, that's for sure.
BTW, the remark she made in regard to her wearing white shoes to Melinda's wedding. She considered that an insult by whoever stated it. I had no idea that "wearing white after Labor Day" was a Southern thing, but I have known all my life that we ladies dont do it. Patsy would never have considered wearing white shoes after Labor Day or before Easter, period. Wherever she was born, that lady was a true Southerner.

Do you have a source for

they were always telling him to use his "good Southern common sense",

?

Did one of the Rs actually say they were always telling JR this?

 

[joeskidbeck]

Murri, It was either Nedra or Patsy, not sure which, in one of the books about the case. They were telling it in a loving sort of way, which told me that they never meant it derogatory to John at all. I will try to find the reference for you.

Holdon, you said in your post that you didn' take John for the "stereotypical Southern person". Could you expand on that, please? Thanks in advance!

 

[BBB167893]

I expect that some people have to get on with their lives and have decided to downsize to just one or two threads. It's too time consuming to have to chase all over the forum, reading every post.

I understand. I actually create these "ask" threads to make things more efficient as you suggest.

So the Southern thing. It's a statement in the RN, so we need to know what it means.

Agreed.

Were they southern or not? Did they want to be southern or did they just identify with the south? Were they ridiculing the south in a perverse way? Why would anyone tell JR to use his good southern common sense if they all knew he wasn't southern? What is southern common sense anyway? Do people from the south consider themselves more intelligent than northeners? Was the RN writer unfamiliar with JR's background? Did this person know OF him but not know him PERSONALLY? Was there anyone else in the 'picture' who was from the south?

Excellent questions. JR was not from the south. He was from Michigan. But then, former President George W. Bush was born and raised to an extent in Connecticut, yet is very strongly associated with "redneck" Texas culture--he certainly links himself to it--and speaks with a pronounced accent. It's said he went from Yale to Y'all. (LOL)

As for PR, she was born in West Virginia. Now, where I'm from, we consider that to be "The South," i.e., south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Her family later moved to Georgia and associated themselves with it. Someone on here--I can't remember who; sorry, whomever you were--said that PR didn't have a Southern accent. With respect to that person, I wonder which interview they were listening to, because she had one. It wasn't all that pronounced, but she had it, all right.

Why would anyone tell JR to use his good southern common sense if they all knew he wasn't southern?

To me, that's the crux of it. Apparently, PR and her relatives thought it was a real hoot to say that JR had "good southern common sense" because he married PR and took the money they loaned him into a successful business. It was a family joke. We had something similar in my family: Dad would tease my aunt for having the Irish brain, when she was from Japan.

What is southern common sense anyway?

It's just an expression of superiority. Every group likes to think they have something special.

Was the RN writer unfamiliar with JR's background?

Doubtful. As Roger DePue said, they felt familiar enough with him to chide him in the note.

 

[BBB167893]

Having seen JR on some video clips obviously after the murder, I would never associate him with the stereotypical southern person.

That's why the Paughs thought it was so funny.

 

[JMO8778]

Holdon, the phrase "good Southern common sense" is not meant to be derogatory to anyone. I'm sure someone's grandmother said this 200 years ago to a grandchild that was "acting up" and the phrase stuck. It's that simple. Folks from the South are aware that people elsewhere in this country think we are all a bunch of backwoods hicks, but believe me, nothing could be further from the truth. I have known lots of families that have moved to the South from other parts of the country and would never consider moving back. Yes, there is ignorance here just like there is ignorance everywhere. But please don't make the mistake of thinking it's rampant here because it is not.

amen to that! I think we're very down -to- earth and perhaps our quiet southern genteel ways make for good observation.we have good insight and IMO,we see things that others don't see sometimes.(JMO!)
It's the same reason they passed me over for jury duty when I was a stay at home mom...they wanted more worldly ppl.But guess what? *I was the one who would probably have not let the perp get away and would have been the first to hand down the harshest sentence.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Dave, I just run across something that I think is very interesting. I know that John's dad married his first wife's mother. Have you ever read JonBenet's obituary? That I can see, they are not mentioned. Here is the link and please tell me what you think of this? Were they both already dead at the time of JB's death and if so, wouldn't they still have been mentioned? Curious, to say the least.
http://karisable.com/jbr.htm


snipped from the article:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JonBenét Patricia Ramsey of Boulder died Thursday, Dec. 26, 1996, at home, the victim of a homicide. She was 6. She was born August. 6, 1990, in Atlanta, the daughter of John B. Ramsey and Patricia Paugh Ramsey. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]She attended High Peaks Elementary School and was a member of St. John's Episcopal Church of Boulder. She moved from Atlanta to Boulder in 1991. Survivors include her parents of Boulder; maternal grandparents, Don and Nedra Paugh of Atlanta; paternal step-grandparents, Richard and Irene Wills of Sun City, Fla.; two brothers, Burke Ramsey and John Andrew Ramsey, both of Boulder; and a sister, Melinda Ramsey of Atlanta. A sister, Beth Ramsey, died in 1992. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A funeral service will be held at 10 a.m. December 31, 1996 at the Peachtree Presbyterian Church in Atlanta. Interment will follow in St. James Episcopal Cemetery in Marietta. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
-- December 31, 1996 Obituary[/FONT]
​

 

[MurriFlower]

To me, that's the crux of it. Apparently, PR and her relatives thought it was a real hoot to say that JR had "good southern common sense" because he married PR and took the money they loaned him into a successful business. It was a family joke. We had something similar in my family: Dad would tease my aunt for having the Irish brain, when she was from Japan.

Yep, I understand the joke, but I'm yet to actually see where they DID tease him. I think this is very important, because it's one of the 'things' RDI cling to which to them indicates PR wrote the RN. So, if it's not too much trouble, can I please have a RELIABLE source for it? If we can't establish that the family/friends/colleagues would have teased him about being southern, we then need to look again at the meaning.

What is southern common sense anyway?

It's just an expression of superiority. Every group likes to think they have something special.

Doubtful. As Roger DePue said, they felt familiar enough with him to chide him in the note.

That's what I thought originally too. It sounds like a lot of in-jokes, but now I find out he wasn't southern at all, it doesn't make sense. I notice beck who says she is from the south, always uses a capital "S". This was not used in the RN, so assuming it is referring to the Southern USA, we can assume the person who wrote it was not Southern, did not identify themselves as Southern, but believed JR was Southern?

What other meaning could it have? What southern connections could JR have had? South America perhaps?

 

[joeskidbeck]

amen to that! I think we're very down -to- earth and perhaps our quiet southern genteel ways make for good observation.we have good insight and IMO,we see things that others don't see sometimes.(JMO!)
It's the same reason they passed me over for jury duty when I was a stay at home mom...they wanted more worldly ppl.But guess what? *I was the one who would probably have not let the perp get away and would have been the first to hand down the harshest sentence.

That's exactly what they get for underestimating a Steel Magnolia!

 

[BBB167893]

Dave, I just run across something that I think is very interesting. I know that John's dad married his first wife's mother. Have you ever read JonBenet's obituary? That I can see, they are not mentioned. Here is the link and please tell me what you think of this? Were they both already dead at the time of JB's death and if so, wouldn't they still have been mentioned? Curious, to say the least.
http://karisable.com/jbr.htm


snipped from the article:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JonBenét Patricia Ramsey of Boulder died Thursday, Dec. 26, 1996, at home, the victim of a homicide. She was 6. She was born August. 6, 1990, in Atlanta, the daughter of John B. Ramsey and Patricia Paugh Ramsey. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]She attended High Peaks Elementary School and was a member of St. John's Episcopal Church of Boulder. She moved from Atlanta to Boulder in 1991. Survivors include her parents of Boulder; maternal grandparents, Don and Nedra Paugh of Atlanta; paternal step-grandparents, Richard and Irene Wills of Sun City, Fla.; two brothers, Burke Ramsey and John Andrew Ramsey, both of Boulder; and a sister, Melinda Ramsey of Atlanta. A sister, Beth Ramsey, died in 1992. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A funeral service will be held at 10 a.m. December 31, 1996 at the Peachtree Presbyterian Church in Atlanta. Interment will follow in St. James Episcopal Cemetery in Marietta. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
-- December 31, 1996 Obituary[/FONT]
​

I don't know where to start, Beck. I never knew his Pa and Wife #1's Ma were Mr. and Mrs!

 

[BBB167893]

Yep, I understand the joke, but I'm yet to actually see where they DID tease him.

Teasing need not be mean-spirited.

I think this is very important, because it's one of the 'things' RDI cling to which to them indicates PR wrote the RN.

I agree.

So, if it's not too much trouble, can I please have a RELIABLE source for it?

What exactly would you consider to be a "reliable source?"

That's what I thought originally too. It sounds like a lot of in-jokes, but now I find out he wasn't southern at all, it doesn't make sense.

Sometimes those family jokes aren't supposed to make sense to anyone but them. I doubt very seriously that a total stranger hearing my father describe my japanese aunt as having the Irish brain would be able to make head or tail of it.

I notice beck who says she is from the south, always uses a capital "S". This was not used in the RN, so assuming it is referring to the Southern USA, we can assume the person who wrote it was not Southern, did not identify themselves as Southern, but believed JR was Southern?

No, I don't think we can assume that. It's one of the tricky parts of American English. We have "The South," but not everyone remembers the rule about "southern" vs. "Southern."

 

[joeskidbeck]

I don't know where to start, Beck. I never knew his Pa and Wife #1's Ma were Mr. and Mrs!

Yes, I had read this very recently on this board somewhere, as a matter of fact, although I had read it elsewhere before. Someone here made the funny that it made John and Lucinda (?) stepbrother and sister as well as ex husband and wife. I bet that made Patsy really happy!
I wonder if it caused such a rift that they were deliberately left out of the obit. That happened in my family and it was shameful. My uncle's sister married his wife's dad (they were absolutely not related in any way), but my uncle and his wife totally cut them out of their lives. It was very sad and unnecessary.

 

[joeskidbeck]

"No, I don't think we can assume that. It's one of the tricky parts of American English. We have "The South," but not everyone remembers the rule about "southern" vs. "Southern."

Let me help you out with this. This is my way of showing respect for all things Southern. I'm very proud of my heritage and it has nothing to do with the way it "should" be done.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon, the phrase "good Southern common sense" is not meant to be derogatory to anyone. I'm sure someone's grandmother said this 200 years ago to a grandchild that was "acting up" and the phrase stuck. It's that simple. Folks from the South are aware that people elsewhere in this country think we are all a bunch of backwoods hicks, but believe me, nothing could be further from the truth. I have known lots of families that have moved to the South from other parts of the country and would never consider moving back. Yes, there is ignorance here just like there is ignorance everywhere. But please don't make the mistake of thinking it's rampant here because it is not.

Then I know you know that neither JR nor PR have a southern accent.

"Holdon, the phrase "good Southern common sense" is not meant to be derogatory to anyone."

You didn't write the ransom note, therefore you can't know what was implied. You're not able to tell us what it meant no more than you're able to interpret the entire note. The adjective 'good' preceding 'southern' adds to and does not subtract from my claim that it is a derogatory statement. Think of it as sarcasm, which shouldn't be too hard.

Someone in the house for an hour would see Atlanta on something and thats all it would take in their attempt to give the ransom note a familiar 'we know who you are' tone.

 

[MurriFlower]

Teasing need not be mean-spirited.

I agree.

What exactly would you consider to be a "reliable source?"

Sometimes those family jokes aren't supposed to make sense to anyone but them. I doubt very seriously that a total stranger hearing my father describe my japanese aunt as having the Irish brain would be able to make head or tail of it.

No, I don't think we can assume that. It's one of the tricky parts of American English. We have "The South," but not everyone remembers the rule about "southern" vs. "Southern."

I need to find a source within the family (not ST or LHP please) that says that the family teased him about being southern.

What does Beck say about the southern part? If you were southern would you do a capital "S" Beck??