Attorney Client Privilege/ Alton Logan Ethical Dilemma

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I think it is easy to get outraged and point to the cases where attorney client privilege doesn't work but it is really one of the fundamental parts that makes our justice system work *most* of the time.

What is the alternative? In this case that the real killer wouldn't have even disclosed that info to his attorney's since it could be used against him? So he just lives out his whole life and dies with his secret? The wrongly accused stays in jail for his entire life?

How many lawyers do you think have taken info like this to their graves because their client never waived privilege upon death? The only thing truly unique about this situation is that they were able to tell.

No one is forced to be an attorney. No one is forced to be a defense attorney. They know the rules that they will be bound by. I personally have great respect for people that abide by the rules they agreed to even when breaking them would feel better.

I believe the above to be the presumptive error. A crisis of conscience is not about feeling better. It's about doing the right thing and living with the consequences. Please don't minimise the gravity of a true moral dilemma.
 
I don't see this as a moral conundrum. It seems pretty clear to me that participating in the wrongful imprisonment of an innocent man is a bad thing. A creative, intelligent person like AL could have found a way out of this situation.

And btw - it wouldn't matter to me one bit if Logan was a horrible person. I have no idea who he is as an individual. I'd be arguing the same side if this guy was a serial killer.

Reflect. The attorneys involved did not use the attorney-client privilege to their advanatage. Rather, they were trapped by it. For there is no landmark case or other authority to close this well known and well understood gap (law students are made well aware of the trap) between legal ethics and morality.

Calibrate. The attorneys caught up in "Logan" are not like attorneys for the tobacco companies who, for decades, used the attorney-client privilege to cover up the fact that nicotine is addictive -- by my measure, they either contibuted to or caused untold millions of people to die, or, at the very least, die before their time.

Consider. The attorney-client privilege is the cornerstone of our judicial system. It's considered sacred, because it engenders trust. When trust exists between the client and their attorney, information is more freely shared. And properly defending a client demands that the attorney have as much relevant information as possible.

Trust is a key condition for the passing of information. Wilson told his attorneys that Logan was innocent only because he knew that information was privileged. I doubt that anyone thinks he would have confessed to his attorneys if the attorney-client privilege did not exist.

FWIW
 
I believe the above to be the presumptive error. A crisis of conscience is not about feeling better. It's about doing the right thing and living with the consequences. Please don't minimise the gravity of a true moral dilemma.

I am not minimizing the gravity of the decision.
You don't think freeing an innocent man would feel better to most people than upholding their oath and letting him remain there? I didn't say it was easier or morally superior. My point was you will always find cases where the system didn't work. Nothing works 100% of the time.

It is a good thing that most of these attorneys believe in the oath they took and don't do what would indeed feel better. Our entire system would fall apart if they did.
 
Reflect. The attorneys involved did not use the attorney-client privilege to their advanatage. Rather, they were trapped by it. For there is no landmark case or other authority to close this well known and well understood gap (law students are made well aware of the trap) between legal ethics and morality.

Calibrate. The attorneys caught up in "Logan" are not like attorneys for the tobacco companies who, for decades, used the attorney-client privilege to cover up the fact that nicotine is addictive -- by my measure, they either contibuted to or caused untold millions of people to die, or, at the very least, die before their time.

Consider. The attorney-client privilege is the cornerstone of our judicial system. It's considered sacred, because it engenders trust. When trust exists between the client and their attorney, information is more freely shared. And properly defending a client demands that the attorney have as much relevant information as possible.

Trust is a key condition for the passing of information. Wilson told his attorneys that Logan was innocent only because he knew that information was privileged. I doubt that anyone thinks he would have confessed to his attorneys if the attorney-client privilege did not exist.

FWIW

Wudge, I certainly understand what you've said in this post. There is no question that your knowledge of the law is superb.

I guess my biggest disappointment lies with my perception of Andrea Lyon's knowledge of the law and propensity to be creative while thinking "outside of the box". I am both surprised and disappointed that someone who could envision the tactic of locking herself to the witness stand during her closing arguments, could not envision an effective path of movement to remedy what to all of us is a grave miscarriage of justice, resulting in an innocent man wasting a significant portion of his only life in prison.

Thank you for your analysis and patience with my continued outrage at this situation. I hope you understand that I think she is a perfect fit for Casey Anthony to receive the justice I feel is deserved.
 
I don't see this as a moral conundrum. It seems pretty clear to me that participating in the wrongful imprisonment of an innocent man is a bad thing. A creative, intelligent person like AL could have found a way out of this situation.

And btw - it wouldn't matter to me one bit if Logan was a horrible person. I have no idea who he is as an individual. I'd be arguing the same side if this guy was a serial killer.

NocturnalLady, I tried to put a "thanks" on the above post, but my pushing the button did 0, zip, so I'll thank you here for your responsible comments.
 
Wudge, I certainly understand what you've said in this post. There is no question that your knowledge of the law is superb.

I guess my biggest disappointment lies with my perception of Andrea Lyon's knowledge of the law and propensity to be creative while thinking "outside of the box". I am both surprised and disappointed that someone who could envision the tactic of locking herself to the witness stand during her closing arguments, could not envision an effective path of movement to remedy what to all of us is a grave miscarriage of justice, resulting in an innocent man wasting a significant portion of his only life in prison.

Thank you for your analysis and patience with my continued outrage at this situation. I hope you understand that I think she is a perfect fit for Casey Anthony to receive the justice I feel is deserved.


I well understand where you've been coming from. Many other posters have had a gut reaction similar to yours.

At a moral level, such reactions are easy to appreciate, for it's crystal clear that something is wrong. However, the problem lies not with the trapped attorneys. I assure you that none of them wanted to be in that position. Still, consider the fact that Wilson's attorneys asked him if he committed the murder. They wanted to know even though they assuredly understood what the possible outcomes were.

Experience has well taught me that many attorneys would not have asked Wilson that question. For unless Wilson decided to confess of his own volition, an affirmative answer was going to place those attorneys between the anvil of legal ethics and the sledge hammer of easily understood morality. Yet, they still asked the question. In doing so, they acquired knowledge that Logan was not the murderer. Wilson was the murderer.

I could easily (and I believe successfully) argue that if Wilson did not trust that his attorneys would uphold their oath and not violate Wilson's attorney-client privilege, then Wilson would never have truthfully answered their question. And if he had not truthfully answered their question, Logan would still be in prison.

There are a lot of huge problems within our system of jurisprudence. We have crooked judges. We have judges who are horribly biased in favor of LE and prosecutors (so much for a fair trial). We have prosecutors who are just plain evil or, at the very least, claim to have absurd ideas of what constitutes exculpatory and/or exonerating evidence and/or if they need to disclose such to the defense. We have police who religiously uphold the blue wall of silence, which means they refuse to police their own but they're fine with policing others. And then we have cases with circumstances similar to those in "Logan".

Though "Logan" certainly represents a problem within our legal system, such cases are very rare. More importantly, they do not arise because the attorneys caught in the trap are inherently fiendish individuals.

I know of no path that would have likely freed Logan. All of the attorneys involved checked for such a path with the State bar, legal scholars, judges et al. No one, anywhere, professed to know of such a path. Moreover, if in a similar case in the future, an attorney were to violate the client's privilege and a landmark case was handed down -- whereby some poor wrongfully convicted soul did gain early freedom -- I would argue that future Wilsons would not confess if they were asked "did you do it" by their attorneys. No trust, no truth.

FWIW
 
The following is from the 3/18/08 Simple Justice, a New York Criminal Defense Blog, regarding attorney-client revelations in cases such as that under discussion herein,
i.e. the Alton Logan case.
Flash Gordon wrote:
For jurisdictions that have adopted the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 1.6 provides the following:
Rule 1.6: Confidentiality of Information

(a) A lawyer shall not reveal information relating to the representation of a client unless the client gives informed consent, the disclosure is impliedly authorized in order to carry out the representation or the disclosure is permitted by paragraph (b).

(b) A lawyer may reveal information relating to the representation of a client to the extent the lawyer reasonably believes necessary:

(1) to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm;

(2) to prevent the client from committing a crime or fraud that is reasonably certain to result in substantial injury to the financial interests or property of another and in furtherance of which the client has used or is using the lawyer's services;

(3) to prevent, mitigate or rectify substantial injury to the financial interests or property of another that is reasonably certain to result or has resulted from the client's commission of a crime or fraud in furtherance of which the client has used the lawyer's services;

(4) to secure legal advice about the lawyer's compliance with these Rules;

(5) to establish a claim or defense on behalf of the lawyer in a controversy between the lawyer and the client, to establish a defense to a criminal charge or civil claim against the lawyer based upon conduct in which the client was involved, or to respond to allegations in any proceeding concerning the lawyer's representation of the client; or

(6) to comply with other law or a court order.

I suggest that this problem would be completely solved by amending subparagraph (3) of subsection (b) to add substantial injury to another's penal interest. Surely the penal interest of another is as worthy of protection as his/her financial or property interest.

3/18/2008 11:15 AM

Bold mine.

If I haven't displayed the citation properly, it is unintentional >> Mods please advise and I'll gladly correct. Thanks.
 
I well understand where you've been coming from. Many other posters have had a gut reaction similar to yours.

At a moral level, such reactions are easy to appreciate, for it's crystal clear that something is wrong. However, the problem lies not with the trapped attorneys. I assure you that none of them wanted to be in that position. Still, consider the fact that Wilson's attorneys asked him if he committed the murder. They wanted to know even though they assuredly understood what the possible outcomes were.

Experience has well taught me that many attorneys would not have asked Wilson that question. For unless Wilson decided to confess of his own volition, an affirmative answer was going to place those attorneys between the anvil of legal ethics and the sledge hammer of easily understood morality. Yet, they still asked the question. In doing so, they acquired knowledge that Logan was not the murderer. Wilson was the murderer.

I could easily (and I believe successfully) argue that if Wilson did not trust that his attorneys would uphold their oath and not violate Wilson's attorney-client privilege, then Wilson would never have truthfully answered their question. And if he had not truthfully answered their question, Logan would still be in prison.

There are a lot of huge problems within our system of jurisprudence. We have crooked judges. We have judges who are horribly biased in favor of LE and prosecutors (so much for a fair trial). We have prosecutors who are just plain evil or, at the very least, claim to have absurd ideas of what constitutes exculpatory and/or exonerating evidence and/or if they need to disclose such to the defense. We have police who religiously uphold the blue wall of silence, which means they refuse to police their own but they're fine with policing others. And then we have cases with circumstances similar to those in "Logan".

Though "Logan" certainly represents a problem within our legal system, such cases are very rare. More importantly, they do not arise because the attorneys caught in the trap are inherently fiendish individuals.

I know of no path that would have likely freed Logan. All of the attorneys involved checked for such a path with the State bar, legal scholars, judges et al. No one, anywhere, professed to know of such a path. Moreover, if in a similar case in the future, an attorney were to violate the client's privilege and a landmark case was handed down -- whereby some poor wrongfully convicted soul did gain early freedom -- I would argue that future Wilsons would not confess if they were asked "did you do it" by their attorneys. No trust, no truth.

FWIW

Yes, I agree to all but they also made the statement that if he had been sentenced to Death they would have done something. What would they have done? And if there was something to do in the case of a Death Sentence why didn't they step up and do something anyway? I still say they, the attorneys, personally gave him a potential Death Sentence by doing nothing. It's prison not a spa. If Logan had died in prison we would never have heard anything about "Wilson" being the real perp etc.
And, what if Wilson had lived another 20 years?
 
From the Chicago Reader, 4-28-08 blogs.chicagoreader.com/news-bites/2008/03/11/60-minutes-alton-logan/ - 50k -

April 28th - 10:36 a.m.
From the State Bar of Illinois, Article VIII, Illinois Rules of Professional Conduct

Rule 3.3. Conduct Before a Tribunal
(a) In appearing in a professional capacity before a tribunal, a lawyer SHALL not:
(2) fail to disclose to a tribunal a material fact known to the lawyer when disclosure is NECESSARY TO AVOID ASSISTING A CRIMINAL or FRAUDULENT ACT BY THE CLIENT.
(b) The duties stated in paragraph (a) are CONTINUING DUTIES and apply EVEN IF COMPLIANCE REQUIRES DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION OTHERWISE PROTECTED BY RULE 1.6.

In my humble opinion, deceiving the court into believing that another man committed a crime is a "fraudulent act by the client." As such, when the attorneys "failed to disclose" this "material fact," the attorneys violated their ethical obligation under Rule 3.3(a)(2).

Since, according to the Rules, 3.3 (candor to the tribunal) trumps 1.6 (maintaining confidential information), the attorneys clearly had an escape valve. They simply chose not to use it.

Simply our humble opinions,
Morley Moore and Ingrid Ingram
for Traton News
 
Yes, I agree to all but they also made the statement that if he had been sentenced to Death they would have done something. What would they have done? And if there was something to do in the case of a Death Sentence why didn't they step up and do something anyway? I still say they, the attorneys, personally gave him a potential Death Sentence by doing nothing. It's prison not a spa. If Logan had died in prison we would never have heard anything about "Wilson" being the real perp etc.
And, what if Wilson had lived another 20 years?

Wudge spelled it out nicely (as usual)

and i agree with you (okiedokietoo) if he had been sentenced to death what EXACTLY were they supposedly going to do... this i would like to know
and i also go back to my arguement i raised a couple days ago which was
What if it was their best friend or child or sibling that was sentenced to prison -- what would they have then done.. certainly more than they did do
which was NOTHING :furious::behindbar
 
if the person wrongfully committed to prison was their spouse or child they WOULD have come up with a way

and that folks is the bottom line :)


they would have found a way

no doubt about it
 
For an expansive discussion of "Why There Should Be a Wrongful Incarceration/Execution Exception to Attorney-Client Confidentiality,"
the following link is provided to the Northwestern University Law Review Colloquy : Individual Page Archive, 7-14-2008, "Ordeal By Innocence."


colloquy.law.northwestern.edu/main/author_miller_colin/ - 36k .
 
. . . if he had been sentenced to death what EXACTLY were they supposedly going to do... this i would like to know

They said that they were holding their breaths at sentencing, that if it had been a Death Penalty case, they would have disclosed. That's part of the
controversy raised in some of the readings I've reviewed--how they could assume such omniscience as to make that distinction.
 
Verité;3822689 said:
They said that they were holding their breaths at sentencing, that if it had been a Death Penalty case, they would have disclosed. That's part of the controversy raised in some of the readings I've reviewed--how they could assume such omniscience as to make that distinction.

They could have made that distinction because the rules of Professional Conduct would allow for them to divulge what their client had confessed to them to prevent the death of another.

Like many, I think they could have found a way, anonymously, or otherwise without implicating their own client.
 
Yes, I agree to all but they also made the statement that if he had been sentenced to Death they would have done something. What would they have done?

SNIP

Had Logan received the death sentence, the plan was to gain commutation (at a minimum), by telling the Governor their story.

(last post ... goodbye wave)
 
I have around 30 years within the group of people whose rules of conduct are at issue, and I have totally conflicting reactions to this case. It is horrific to me that Mr. Logan spent 26 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. I don't think everyone who isn't a member of the bar needs to be counseled out of their disagreement or disdain, or that the lawyers involved should be either condemned or canonized for some sort of heroic service. We are a group that makes rules for its own members. We could change or tweek them. We make exceptions to the attorney client privilege for occasions when the clients won't pay us. This isn't all holy gospel.
 
I well understand where you've been coming from. Many other posters have had a gut reaction similar to yours.

At a moral level, such reactions are easy to appreciate, for it's crystal clear that something is wrong. However, the problem lies not with the trapped attorneys. I assure you that none of them wanted to be in that position. Still, consider the fact that Wilson's attorneys asked him if he committed the murder. They wanted to know even though they assuredly understood what the possible outcomes were.

Experience has well taught me that many attorneys would not have asked Wilson that question. For unless Wilson decided to confess of his own volition, an affirmative answer was going to place those attorneys between the anvil of legal ethics and the sledge hammer of easily understood morality. Yet, they still asked the question. In doing so, they acquired knowledge that Logan was not the murderer. Wilson was the murderer.

I could easily (and I believe successfully) argue that if Wilson did not trust that his attorneys would uphold their oath and not violate Wilson's attorney-client privilege, then Wilson would never have truthfully answered their question. And if he had not truthfully answered their question, Logan would still be in prison.

There are a lot of huge problems within our system of jurisprudence. We have crooked judges. We have judges who are horribly biased in favor of LE and prosecutors (so much for a fair trial). We have prosecutors who are just plain evil or, at the very least, claim to have absurd ideas of what constitutes exculpatory and/or exonerating evidence and/or if they need to disclose such to the defense. We have police who religiously uphold the blue wall of silence, which means they refuse to police their own but they're fine with policing others. And then we have cases with circumstances similar to those in "Logan".
Though "Logan" certainly represents a problem within our legal system, such cases are very rare. More importantly, they do not arise because the attorneys caught in the trap are inherently fiendish individuals.

I know of no path that would have likely freed Logan. All of the attorneys involved checked for such a path with the State bar, legal scholars, judges et al. No one, anywhere, professed to know of such a path. Moreover, if in a similar case in the future, an attorney were to violate the client's privilege and a landmark case was handed down -- whereby some poor wrongfully convicted soul did gain early freedom -- I would argue that future Wilsons would not confess if they were asked "did you do it" by their attorneys. No trust, no truth.

FWIW



My Bold...

My goodness. All these problems with the legal system and they are all problems with the prosecution side. Are there no crooked defense attorneys? No pure evil defense attorneys? No defense attorneys who play fast and loose with disclosure?
 
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