AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #4

[JaneSA]

The following all IMO and is a general comment on the term paedophile, not aimed at any person who may have been involved in this case.

I agree that it is disgusting that the video showed a photo of a girl at age 16 who has not done anything wrong except to be the fiancee at that age of a man who is now charged with a terrible crime. It also made me think in general about the work "paedophile" and its uses by MSM and others. I think most of us probably think of small children but this article from a senior analyst for the National Crime Authority in Australia points out that there is no legal definition of paedophile, it is simply a case whether the person has committed a sexual offence against a person under the relevant age.
http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/conferences/paedophilia/miller.pdf

I remember when a former High Court judge was falsely accused of "paedophilia", the definition used in press reports related to boys under the age of 18, which was the relevant age of consent in NSW at that time. That, ie being under the legal age of consent, is the definition of Paedophilia used by many people. I checked a list of state and territory laws and it shows that in SA and Tas the age of consent is 17, while it is 16 in all other States and Territories, including in ACT where the former fiancee of DJH lived.
https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/age-consent-laws

Yes, that's right.
What used to be called "carnal knowledge" - sex with someone below the age of consent - now gets reported with the sensationalised term "pedophilia".
It is really quite misleading.
Psychologically, pedophilia is a mental illness, but sex with a teenager not yet of the legal age of consent is not the same thing.

However, although age of consent varies across Australia, in ACT it is 16.

 

[Panda]

Thought this may be of interest generally:

Doyle, John --- "The Courts and the Media: What Reforms are Needed and Why" [1999] UTSLawRw 5; (1999) 1 University of Technology Sydney Law Review 13

Media Prejudice During a Criminal Jury Trial: Stop the Trial, Fine the Media, or Why Not Both


http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UTSLawRw/1999/5.html

And this one is quite interesting:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ALRCRefJl/2004/23.html

 

[JaneSA]

I did too, i posted that a few days ago. I remember in the early threads before we found out who little kandles was, lots us us were baffled why the bones were found in Wynarka and why were they found when they were. It would have been so easy to make the suitcase vanish and never be seen again.

I always thought the bones had been held onto for some kind of insurance and used as blackmail.

Im still wanting to know the link to Wynarka, it could be nothing like belangalo was used to throw people off but i don't think so. Police were pretty sure the suitcase was put there in March or early April this year.

I'm assuming blackmail or insurance too.

 

[1968]

Pretty random, but I am wondering when DJB met Karlie. At some point in August 2008 HP and her children are with Khandalyce, we see her in the Facebook photos at the car show, presumably Karlie was there also? They lived in Alice Springs at the time, and so did Karlie/Khandalyce. I don't think DJB met Karlie on her travels, I think she knew him already. He was quoted early on as being a family acquaintance.

 

[e.l.l.a]

The following comment is "IMO"

Criminal law in Australian is mostly State or Territory based, although some crimes fall under Commonwealth Law. State Courts dealing with crimes under State law (eg a murder that took place in NSW) don't have jurisdiction to punish people for contempt of court (including sub-judice contempt) in other States or Territories. It would be different if the crime was a Federal one (eg drug importation to Australia), where the Federal Court has jurisdiction throughout Australia. Therefore the SA based Advertiser can publish in SA a newspaper that calls DJH a convicted paedophile even after criminal proceedings commence in NSW for an NSW crime but NSW newspaper cannot say the same once proceedings commence. Therefore NSW media is not going to say that DJH is a convicted criminal in NSW and presently serving time here.

The basis of the law relating to sub-judice contempt of court is that discussion of actual or supposed past crimes can cause the potential jurors in a State, and even the judges, to become actually or apparently biased against an accused person thus jeopardising the possibility of a fair trial. If the prejudiced caused by a such public speculation becomes so strong that the court forms the view that the accused could not have a fair trial then it is possible the person would get off scot-free, so that the public speculation would prevent the victim and/or victim's family from having justice for a crime.

Therefore reputable media organisations in any State or Territory of Australia, and also reputable public interest forums like websleuths, want to prevent the publication of any content that could jeopardise a fair trial for the accused and the associated right of the victim to have justice done. Loss of the right to speculate and imagine scenarios about the accused or people who might be associated with him or her is a very small price to pay if the end result is a fair and just criminal legal system.

EDIT: a matter only becomes sub-judice against a specific person once legal process has commenced eg they are charged. If a media organisation only cares about the possibility of being prosecuted for sub-judice contempt, it would be able to publish material about the prior convictions of a possible suspect prior to charging. Therefore things may have been published before DJH was charged that NSW media would not publish after the charges were laid.

Can I ask why then, are the media are still allowed to talk about the car crash - or even us for that matter ? IMO this does fall into prior history even if it wasn't a formal conviction (it was still a formal legal consequence that happened to DH, right?)
Sorry, this is my first ever post on this thread.

 

[JaneSA]

Pretty random, but I am wondering when DJB met Karlie. At some point in August 2008 HP and her children are with Khandalyce, we see her in the Facebook photos at the car show, presumably Karlie was there also? They lived in Alice Springs at the time, and so did Karlie/Khandalyce. I don't think DJB met Karlie on her travels, I think she knew him already. He was quoted early on as being a family acquaintance.

My supposition has been that Karlie first met DJH due to her friendship with HP when they both lived in the Alice.

 

[Suziek]

If she knew of their deaths after they died, covered up their deaths and profited from their deaths but did not instigate, plan or implement their deaths then I'm afraid I must disagree with you... someone would be nowhere near as evil in doing that as the person who did all that and *also* got the idea in the first place, planned the deaths and did the actual killing. If that were the case then it is obvious that if the victims had interacted only with HP and not with DH then they'd still be alive. The same may not be true if they'd interacted only with DH and not with HP. There's a difference there. The difference between a and a murderous .

not as bad as an alledged killer no...but IMO evil beyond comprehension just the same...she knew exactly what was going on and exactly what she was doing

 

[fruity]

Here it is - no wonder I remembered it, I was the one who posted it!

In a twist stranger than fiction, the single mother, who was 20 when she died, was identified by DNA taken from a pink dress near another body at the centre of a murder mystery some 1200km away – that of Karlie's two-year-old daughter, Khandalyce.

Post 164

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Stevenson-(Belanglo)&p=12131288#post12131288

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...3qRIIyCgZDO.99

 

[Amee]

I really hope Alioop and Dr Watson (our verified Lawyer and Dr) join in here. Their expertise would be so helpful, plus I miss them posting.

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Did they actually obtain Karlie's DNA from clothing in the suitcase? I must have missed that.

police were then able to access Khandalyce's medical records, and obtain a blood sample that provided a positive match to the skeletal remains, which was later matched to Karlie's DNA.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...ed-breakthrough-in-suitcase-girl-case/6873196

I haven't seen one news article where it was reported they matched DNA from clothing in the suitcase....

Superintendent Bray said the retail sector helped police identify "almost every article of clothing" in the case.

"They've gone back through records seven or eight years ago, in some cases longer, and we've been able to identify where the majority of the items of clothing were found, where they were sold, some of it we know every item of clothing across Australia and that's because of the retail sector," he said.

 

[crabstick]

Did someone have something somewhere. The aroma became too much so they put something in a suitcase and lobbed it at the back of a slip road?

Good thinking crabby ... that would do it I would think. And no, no ... I'm not going to set up an experiment to find out, lol.

 

[antechinusRAWR]

surely not...that would be infruriating
she is equally as evil because she did know about these angels deaths and did what she did
no excuses IMO...we have all had to deal with tragedy in our lives...and yes I know very well the trauma of losing a child ....it does not provide an excuse for what she has alledgedly done....she could have spoken out
and IMO I think she always knew what DH was all about

Sorry all, tl/dr again :sorry::ziplip:

I agree that all of this is totally possible, but to be completely fair, there are any number of other possibilities here too & as some have suggested in the thread already (with entirely credible scenarios) it IS possible she didn't know they were dead. With her time away in hospital in late 2008 & presumably later on for rehab/follow-up appts etc she may have had no idea Karlie hadn't just left voluntarily to apply for work in an isolated mining community & then come back later while HP was again away to pick up Khandalyce. Being treated with strong opiates on top of all that grief would've left her oblivious, unsuspecting & very easily manipulated.

It's entirely possible that HE had complete control of Karlie's ph just as he seems to have had control of her ATM cards. HP could've been the target of some of those "proof of life" texts & an ABN indicating work in the mining industry could've been "accidentally" found online & shown to her as a further "update" on Karlie's new life. All of the above could also be used as a means of convincing HP that Karlie herself was requesting her help with a C'link interview/bank acct/issue that she couldn't attend to personally due to work & distance. Maybe she even got texts from "Karlie" pleading with her to please contact her family for her because she just couldn't deal with it herself yet - presumably, if they were close enough for HP to take Khandalyce out with her own kids, she might also have been privy to the issues that prompted Karlie to leave Alice.

I admit I thought it looked really bad at first, but the longer this drags out with no arrest + the bags of documents HP was seen to take to the police station (medical records, proving she was away from home for appts at critical points in the timeline? Mail to Karlie that had been redirected c/o one of DH/HP's shared addresses?), well, it does make some of the "innocent participant" scenarios sound less unlikely.

I think holding the hate back for a little longer could prevent a world of hurt for everyone. It doesn't feel good when you discover you've been fooled into hating on a victim by a manipulative perp who hoped you'd do exactly that. IF initial assumptions turn out to be correct, we'll have all the time in the world to express disgust later. The worst possible scenario in this particular situation is that someone who was fooled by DH just like Karlie's family & is now trying her best to help, ends up seriously victimised herself because someone gets all revved up on the tabloid-style media coverage & decides to speed things up with some street justice - & it is a possibility now because our "responsible" media have camped outside AND published pictures of the home she's been released to - a home where her 2 children also live.

Her name was in the top 10 trending list Australia-wide for hours last night on twitter. As far as I'm aware DH's never was. There's a level of interest/emotion in this case that I haven't seen since the 80's (Anita Cobby, Ebony Simpson, Sian Kingi come to mind). It's a long time since we've seen mobs swinging nooses at bullwagons outside court, but public feeling on this case feels like a brewing storm lately - & as always, the worst of it seems to go towards the females (not a reference to the posts of anyone here, but to the general tone on soc media/news sites).



Anyway, I'm a big proponent of the whole "when you hear hoofbeats" thing but I think in this case, when it comes to possible explanations for HP's actions, there aren't really any zebras, just a big field of different horses (with the exception of someone impersonating HP impersonating Karlie. That one has a distinct zebra feel to it - Possible? maybe. Probable? No).

 

[crabstick]

Hence the friendship ring on Karlies engagement finger in the shopping centre

Pretty random, but I am wondering when DJB met Karlie. At some point in August 2008 HP and her children are with Khandalyce, we see her in the Facebook photos at the car show, presumably Karlie was there also? They lived in Alice Springs at the time, and so did Karlie/Khandalyce. I don't think DJB met Karlie on her travels, I think she knew him already. He was quoted early on as being a family acquaintance.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Pretty random, but I am wondering when DJB met Karlie. At some point in August 2008 HP and her children are with Khandalyce, we see her in the Facebook photos at the car show, presumably Karlie was there also? They lived in Alice Springs at the time, and so did Karlie/Khandalyce. I don't think DJB met Karlie on her travels, I think she knew him already. He was quoted early on as being a family acquaintance.

:welcome: to Websleuths 1968. I can remember seeing a photo of a young DJH quoted as living in Alice Springs. He could have been a contemporary of a member of the next generation up from Karlie.

 

[fruity]

I really hope Alioop and Dr Watson (our verified Lawyer and Dr) join in here. Their expertise would be so helpful, plus I miss them posting.

Me too. Their expertise is second to none.

 

[fruity]

police were then able to access Khandalyce's medical records, and obtain a blood sample that provided a positive match to the skeletal remains, which was later matched to Karlie's DNA.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...ed-breakthrough-in-suitcase-girl-case/6873196

I haven't seen one news article where it was reported they matched DNA from clothing in the suitcase....

Superintendent Bray said the retail sector helped police identify "almost every article of clothing" in the case.

"They've gone back through records seven or eight years ago, in some cases longer, and we've been able to identify where the majority of the items of clothing were found, where they were sold, some of it we know every item of clothing across Australia and that's because of the retail sector," he said.

BBM

In a twist stranger than fiction, the single mother, who was 20 when she died, was identified by DNA taken from a pink dress near another body at the centre of a murder mystery some 1200km away – that of Karlie's two-year-old daughter, Khandalyce.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...3qRIIyCgZDO.99

This was in MSM in the very early days. It is much more likely that they got DNA from the bones - but it was definitely in the news. I am not in the habit of inventing things or making them up, thank you. Just because YOU didn't see it does not mean it doesn't exist.

editing:

That link has been deleted in the last 10 minutes. I took a screen shot though, because frankly it is getting tiring with people saying that because they don't think something in MSM meshes with their idea it is automatically wrong.

 

[JaneSA]

Here it is - no wonder I remembered it, I was the one who posted it!



Post 164

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Stevenson-(Belanglo)&p=12131288#post12131288

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...3qRIIyCgZDO.99

9 News was factually incorrect there.
No big surprise though, but I wish they wouldn't do it.

 

[possumheart]

BBM



http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...3qRIIyCgZDO.99

This was in MSM in the very early days. It is much more likely that they got DNA from the bones - but it was definitely in the news. I am not in the habit of inventing things or making them up, thank you. Just because YOU didn't see it does not mean it doesn't exist.

editing:

That link has been deleted in the last 10 minutes. I took a screen shot though, because frankly it is getting tiring with people saying that because they don't think something in MSM meshes with their idea it is automatically wrong.

I will upload the screenshot as soon as I figure out how.

Wow, Fruity — you are ALL OVER THIS! Sometimes screenshots are the only way to go ...
*(eta, even if the media is backtracking to correct false reporting, it is good for one's sanity when you know you saw it)

 

[fruity]

Wow, Fruity — you are ALL OVER THIS! Sometimes screenshots are the only way to go ...
*(eta, even if the media is backtracking to correct false reporting, it is good for one's sanity when you know you saw it)

I learnt the hard way a long time ago!

Screenshots are definitely the way to go.

 

[antechinusRAWR]

Yes, that's right.
What used to be called "carnal knowledge" - sex with someone below the age of consent - now gets reported with the sensationalised term "pedophilia".
It is really quite misleading.
Psychologically, pedophilia is a mental illness, but sex with a teenager not yet of the legal age of consent is not the same thing.

However, although age of consent varies across Australia, in ACT it is 16.

Correct depending on age it's either hebephilia or ephebophilia but most people don't know these terms exist & lump it all under paedophilia.




I'm sure there's a better source but I'm being lazy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia

Hebephilia is the strong and persistent adult sexual interest in pubescent (early adolescent) individuals, typically ages 11–14 (see the Tanner stage). It differs from ephebophilia, which is the strong and persistent sexual interest to those in later adolescence, approximately 15–19 years old, and differs from pedophilia, which is the primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.While individuals with a sexual preference for adults may have some sexual interest in pubescent-aged individuals, researchers and clinical diagnoses have proposed that hebephilia is characterized by a sexual preference for pubescent rather than adult partners.