AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #9

[Trooper]

"The matters are connected". Victoria Engle (prosecutor) said the two cases being tried together is most likely.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...y/news-story/254e9ba331f200088161719391adab20
Murder probe follows the money
16 Dec 2015
Dan Box

Tried together ... Could that make a guilty plea more likely ???

I recall when I read that, SoSo,.. . I admire Engel .. She is saying what people want to hear, in this instance.. it is a matter of cost.. the State of NSW isn't going to go for broke if it can get life on Holdom for Khandalyce, .. Trying him for the both murders concurrently... it looks simple on the face of things, but it is terrifically complicated in law.. there really is a good chance we'll only see him on trial for Khandalyce. after all, he only has one life. .. They can only get him once, so to speak.


If he pleads guilty to Karlie's murder, the judge of course , in his summing up , will outline the facts of the crime, the timeline, maybe a motive, although the court doesn't need one.

And. Holdom will be on Legal Aid.. this isn't to say he gets a bad deal, but it does mean that his decisions on what to plead come under very close scrutiny, as a matter of money management. He may crack at this scrutiny. ..

 

[Trooper]

He murdered them on different days, in different places.. for different reasons, I presume. Maybe he murdered them in different states ( nods to KG1) .. possibly he murdered them with different weaponry.. . or method...... even though the murders are inextricably linked, as actions , in themselves, they are completely apart.

 

[Hbayne]

No worries Hbayne. There was a post once reminding us that even family members and those intimately connected with the case might access the pages and it was a sobering thought and a reminder of why we should address the issues respectfully with all of the potential victims in mind.

Yep gotcha, I totally forgot there was a bio dad who had lost his kids , won't mention again - thanks

 

[sosocurious]

I think it's looking unlikely that Holdom will plead guilty given he is yet to speak at all.

Holdom, 41, did not apply for bail and it was formally refused, with Cleaves later saying “extensive” enquiries would be necessary before a plea could be determined.

“He’ll await advice,” Cleaves said outside the court, adding he had spoken with Holdom for about 20 minutes.

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...glo-forest-near-mothers-remains-police-allege

20 minutes is a start I guess.
That was one alleged murder now there are two.

 

[sosocurious]

Which 2 cases do you mean? Is it the 2 murder cases, or the murders and fraud cases?

Sorry I hate paraphrasing ... the 2 alleged murders.

 

[Trooper]

I think it's looking unlikely that Holdom will plead guilty given he is yet to speak at all.

He hasn't been required to speak as yet. He certainly didn't even want to appear in court, even though it was by TV link, but was made to do so. But his opportunity to speak has not yet arisen. For all anyone knows he is singing like a canary on Rohypnol in his prison interview cell.. Certainly the police nor his Barrister are obliged to tell the press anything he says, at this point in time.

 

[SouthAussie]

The brief of evidence is not due until 7th January. I'm sure that Holdom's legal reps need a good look through that before anything is decided with regard to a plea. And, even then, a plea may not be forthcoming for quite a while. I have been surprised at the length of time it sometimes takes before any plea is lodged.


The court ordered the brief of evidence be served by January 7.
Mr Holdom did not apply for bail and it was formally refused.
He will appear in Central Local Court on January 28.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/girl-in-s...sed-killer-20151111-gkwnbn.html#ixzz3uTws6rtg
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

 

[Trooper]

And things have changed for Holdom since his first appearance, at court, which had more to do with 'showing his person' to the court, than anything to do with the charges he faced then, .. . since then, he is now charged with two murders, so its highly likely his legal blokes are burning the midnight oil , since I have yet to see that his brief of evidence date has changed.

Things have changed for everyone, courts, Holdom, his legal people, and particularly , the police, or, the TaskForce Mallee, who's job just got twice as big and twice as complicated, and immeasurable x times worse. It wouldn't surprise me to see that date of Jan7th be changed, even Jan 28th looks a bit wobbly to me.

 

[Karo]

Oct 29, 2015 - Daniel James Holdom, 41, was taken into custody by homicide detectives at 3.45pm ... he is not co-operating with police and has refused to be interviewed
It's usual to speak during interviews and give a statement,( guilty or innocent.)to police.

He hasn't been required to speak as yet. He certainly didn't even want to appear in court, even though it was by TV link, but was made to do so. But his opportunity to speak has not yet arisen. For all anyone knows he is singing like a canary on Rohypnol in his prison interview cell.. Certainly the police nor his Barrister are obliged to tell the press anything he says, at this point in time.

 

[1968]

Is Holdom on Legal Aid? I would have thought with a high profile case like this there would be some ambitious legal eagles trying to go all pro bono on his *advertiser censored*.

 

[Trooper]

Oct 29, 2015 - Daniel James Holdom, 41, was taken into custody by homicide detectives at 3.45pm ... he is not co-operating with police and has refused to be interviewed
It's usual to speak during interviews and give a statement,( guilty or innocent.)to police.

I would think Holdom would be experienced enough , considering his lifestyle , to think it highly unusual to speak at all during interviews with police and above all, to give a statement to the police before speaking with one's legal representative would be the very height of stupidity. It would be so unusual for one as au fait with police procedure as Holdom is as to call into question his sanity.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is Holdom on Legal Aid? I would have thought with a high profile case like this there would be some ambitious legal eagles trying to go all pro bono on his *advertiser censored*.

Peter Cleaves is Holdom's lawyer. Peter Cleaves once said this in an article .....

“I act for them whether they qualify [for legal aid] or not, I never reject anybody, if they don’t qualify for legal aid I am able to act for the pro bono so nobody ever walks out of my office unrepresented. I had always had an ambition.”

http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/story/1392782/peter-cleaves-bound-to-the-law/


Peter Cleaves, Daniel Holdom's lawyer, arrives at Maitland Local Court in NSW on Thursday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...harged-killing-faces-court.html#ixzz3uU29JOrc

 

[Maggie_May]

Heck no Hbayne, no need for apologies at all - at the end of the day, we all just want the right bastards brought to justice, for the families to have to suffer no more and for them to find some peace and closure eventually, and for those two innocent souls to rest in peace together again at last :'(

Yep gotcha, I totally forgot there was a bio dad who had lost his kids , won't mention again - thanks

 

[Trooper]

Peter Cleaves is Holdom's lawyer. Peter Cleaves once said this in an article .....

“I act for them whether they qualify [for legal aid] or not, I never reject anybody, if they don’t qualify for legal aid I am able to act for the pro bono so nobody ever walks out of my office unrepresented. I had always had an ambition.”

http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/story/1392782/peter-cleaves-bound-to-the-law/


Peter Cleaves, Daniel Holdom's lawyer, arrives at Maitland Local Court in NSW on Thursday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...harged-killing-faces-court.html#ixzz3uU29JOrc

still, SouthAussie, there always comes the time when even the greatest barrister has to send the bill off to Legal Aid and await their response.. always a nervewracking time.....Cleaves is a local Maitland solicitor, ... currently , I gather, he is the go between for Holdom and what will inevitably be a Barrister or even a Silk , especially if this thing goes to the State Supreme court in Sydney. ... which , while not guaranteed is highly likely. .

 

[Puggle]

Can anyone who believes hazel is innocent in all this explain the incredibly coincidence that the person impersonating Karlie was in a wheelchair? The odds are very small that there is another wheelchair bound woman connected to Holden out there ???? Really interested to hear thoughts

Hbayne ....you know I have been here since day one... NO ONE on this thread has ever come out and said..."Hazel is Innocent"...ever!!.....

Some members have put forward their own thought and ideas that "MAYBE" she was duped, conned, deceived by Daniel....just like Karlie's family was..

<modsnip>

So I'm guessing you won't get a big reply...as no members ..have ever said she was...just a few expressing some doubt as to what her involvement actually was.....

 

[JaneSA]

What about the person that spoke to Karlie's family asking for money? That must have been a female. If not HP I wonder who else it could be?

No idea, Oona.
It may have been HP but do you remember how the police said two women early on in the investigation?
I suppose they must have another woman in their sights.

 

[1968]

The brief of evidence is not due until 7th January. I'm sure that Holdom's legal reps need a good look through that before anything is decided with regard to a plea. And, even then, a plea may not be forthcoming for quite a while. I have been surprised at the length of time it sometimes takes before any plea is lodged.


The court ordered the brief of evidence be served by January 7.
Mr Holdom did not apply for bail and it was formally refused.
He will appear in Central Local Court on January 28.

Noob question - are we allowed to sleuth lawyers? Please delete link if not !

re Holdms lawyer, Peter Cleaves....

http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/story/1392782/peter-cleaves-bound-to-the-law/


He is now mainly retired but still is on the legal aid roster system for the Maitland court district. He is in another article referred to as 'Mandrake the Magician.'

 

[JaneSA]

It must have been worth it to them though, as she seems to have stayed involved well after the fact. I think there is a danger in thinking that criminal types think like you if you're a decent person with morals, as they simply do not.

You make a lot of sense, Mrs G.
I should know this. You are right

 

[Sillybilly]

:modstop:

ABSOLUTELY stop the personalizing, rudeness, bullying and bickering in this thread. Also, do not respond to offending posts but use the Alert feature to let Mods/Admin know immediately if there is a problem. Do not try to moderate the thread yourself.

Discuss the case and not each other. Posts have been removed and after a review and discussion with Admin, TOs may be issued.

 

[SouthAussie]

Noob question - are we allowed to sleuth lawyers? Please delete link if not !

re Holdms lawyer, Peter Cleaves....

http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/story/1392782/peter-cleaves-bound-to-the-law/

I believe that we are allowed to discuss their professional identity .... website, news articles, professional papers, professional memberships/listings, etc. Nothing private/personal.