AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, Wynarka, Bones of a Child Discovered, July'15 - #6

[crabstick]

Im starting to wonder if the clothes are possibly totally irrelevant.

Will it be known as the suitcase region in future? Baggage lane?

If the case was pulled from the side of the road as a source, the body then placed in the case, the only material evidence maybe the quilt play rig dooner thingy?

Is it official that men's shirts were also found in the suitcase? Do you have a link please? BBM

 

[AtaraMalka]

My girls HAD to wear black leotards/tutus for their dance classes.

Interesting. I am from Scotland and have vivid memories (going back around 35 years or so now) of my sister and I arguing with my mother about wearing black. She dressed us quite conservatively when we were small, and would never allow us to wear black dresses, coats, or even shoes.

I remember to this day being bought a velvet dress for Christmas, in a burgundy color with a cream lace collar and cuffs. I must have been about 7 or 8 years only and my sister would have been around 5 or 6. There was a black option and a burgundy option In the shop, and my sister and I really wanted the black. We begged and begged but there was no arguing with my mother.

I remember the arguments about different black items as well, over the years. And I remember my mother discussing the topic with her friends. Whether it was because black was too funereal, too grown-up looking, too 'sexy' I don't know. But it's certainly something cultural, in certain contexts, that children don't wear black.

BTW my sister also did ballet and I remember the black leotard and ballet shoes!

But I don't remember anything black outside of ballet class.

 

[debirlfan]

How delightful! I'm sure that there will be no shortage of "research material" as families arrange for their dearly departed violent drunken scoundrels to be eaten by worms.

I don't know, but I get the impression that the body farm in the US has trouble getting as many as they'd like. I've informed family that I would prefer to be sent there after my death, assuming it's not prohibitively expensive to ship a body.

 

[debirlfan]

I love this idea - so important for forensic science. I read about these places in the USA. I'd happily donate my own body but I plan to give away as many organs as possible for those in need of a transplant. No point in putting good organs into a grave.

FYI, when I looked into it, donating organs didn't preclude the remainder of the body from going to the body farm.

 

[AtaraMalka]

I don't know why so much emphasises is put on the black colour either, or any colour of any garmet to be honest! I have a bad habit of dressing my little girl going by the fashion and what I wear....it means nothing IMO

I think you're right, and I'm out or date!

Once upon a time little girls were dressed very differently from the fashions for older girls and young women. Little girls today wear the 'in' style and this year's colors, just like the grown ups, and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[AtaraMalka]

How would you expose/find a family that is so insular that their daily activities are unknown for years ????

I really feel , given the vast amount of information that the police have given out with the clothing items - by now someone should have come forward... the only reason I can think of why no one has come forward - is that the family/extended have maintained a low social profile (For whatever reason)

But if the family kept solely to themselves....how could you find them ???

Any ideas ..

Sadly I agree with your analysis, Puggle.

And remember, it's not just that police and potential witnesses of the little girl wearing certain items of clothing would be less able or likely to detect / witness her or her family if they were very secluded from the mainstream.

It's the fact that they themselves are opting not to come forward. Being 'off the grid' means that it's hard for us to detect them. It doesn't mean that they have no access to media and haven't detected what we're saying and doing.

 

[Winterchild87]

Interesting. I am from Scotland and have vivid memories (going back around 35 years or so now) of my sister and I arguing with my mother about wearing black. She dressed us quite conservatively when we were small, and would never allow us to wear black dresses, coats, or even shoes.

I remember to this day being bought a velvet dress for Christmas, in a burgundy color with a cream lace collar and cuffs. I must have been about 7 or 8 years only and my sister would have been around 5 or 6. There was a black option and a burgundy option In the shop, and my sister and I really wanted the black. We begged and begged but there was no arguing with my mother.

I remember the arguments about different black items as well, over the years. And I remember my mother discussing the topic with her friends. Whether it was because black was too funereal, too grown-up looking, too 'sexy' I don't know. But it's certainly something cultural, in certain contexts, that children don't wear black.

BTW my sister also did ballet and I remember the black leotard and ballet shoes!

But I don't remember anything black outside of ballet class.

Although I am not quite old enough to have been around at the time, I have read that there was widespread condemnation/criticism of Lindy Chamberlain because she had a black dress for baby Azaria (and it probably caused some of the rumours to gain oxygen eg: she was involved in satanic rituals and sacrificed the infant). Some older generations were averse to children wearing black (maybe because it seemed "occult" or because it had long been associated with death and mourning).

I have read that some people dislike the colour purple and will never dress their children in purple or use it as home decor because there is a superstition that it "invites death". (Purples/lilacs were also been dressed in as a family came out of mourning "half mourning"... which I guess is why some people associate 'death' with certain colours).

I think as time progresses, people are less bothered by "bad colours" as the association with death becomes less recent and less relevant.

 

[Oz Jen]

I think Suitcase Man has everything to do with this.

I’m not buying the ‘travelling salesman spruiking fragrances and colognes' for two reasons:

1/ A salesman would always make eye contact and be as affable as possible. That’s his bread and butter.

2/ Locals would have identified him as having been in Wynarka before. They didn’t.

I think the ‘travelling salesman’ thing was more about the natural inclination of locals who are on the periphery of this sad story and haven’t really seen anything, combined with irresponsible journalism: an attempt to make some kind of ‘me too’ statement so as to appear involved.

I too, for a short time, was an encyclopaedia salesperson, way back in the day. I was but a young thing then and the practices were exactly as described (a few pages back by Puggle). Those days are thankfully now long gone. With online technology and tighter marketing strategies, I cannot see some lone wanderer frequenting Wynarka to peddle his wares, let alone a well-dressed man in his 60s. Back then, peddling suitcases full of fragrances, books and ‘original’ artworks for little to no money was the domain of vulnerable, struggling Uni students like myself.

My current feeling (which could change with the tide) is that Suitcase Man was trying to distance himself (or someone close to him) from the horror of the crime.

I am currently looking at off-the-grid, drop-out-of-society outlying campsites–one of which Makara has suggested we further explore. I agree.

I think our little Angel was sadly missed by the system and was the victim of domestic violence. Mental health issues will be a factor but will never, ever be an excuse.

 

[JaneSA]

"I think the ‘travelling salesman’ thing was more about the natural inclination of locals who are on the periphery of this sad story and haven’t really seen anything, combined with irresponsible journalism, as an attempt to make some kind of ‘me too’ statement so as to appear involved. "

A very astute observation OzJen.

 

[hideoustroll]

Although I am not quite old enough to have been around at the time, I have read that there was widespread condemnation/criticism of Lindy Chamberlain because she had a black dress for baby Azaria (and it probably caused some of the rumours to gain oxygen eg: she was involved in satanic rituals and sacrificed the infant). Some older generations were averse to children wearing black (maybe because it seemed "occult" or because it had long been associated with death and mourning).

I have read that some people dislike the colour purple and will never dress their children in purple or use it as home decor because there is a superstition that it "invites death". (Purples/lilacs were also been dressed in as a family came out of mourning "half mourning"... which I guess is why some people associate 'death' with certain colours).

I think as time progresses, people are less bothered by "bad colours" as the association with death becomes less recent and less relevant.

I am truly surprised that there are still so many people who feel black is an odd choice for kids. I only really shop at mainstream stores like Target, Myer etc (no goth stores or anything) and they carry black clothes for kids. I assume they wouldn't order them in if they didn't sell, so yeah, surprising to find a lot of people have strong feelings about it. My youngest wears a lot of black and navy, she's very fair so it suits her and she likes those colours. The only colour she hates is yellow. And like somebody else mentioned, a lot of ballet schools have black leotards and wrap skirts as a uniform so if a little girl was obsessed with ballet she might well choose black just because of that.

 

[Oona]

It is possible that this little girl was not living "off the grid" but just came from a situation of isolation. Imagine a couple or single parent with no close friends or family. Most people barely know their neighbours these days. If the little girl died on the more recent end of the time scale it is possible that she has had no reason to be missed by government authorities.

 

[hideoustroll]

It is possible that this little girl was not living "off the grid" but just came from a situation of isolation. Imagine a couple or single parent with no close friends or family. Most people barely know their neighbours these days. If the little girl died on the more recent end of the time scale it is possible that she has had no reason to be missed by government authorities.

I agree. I've seen the Colt family referred to as living "off the grid" but they most definitely were not. They were on benefits, many of the children had attended school on and off and they had been on the books of more than one state welfare agency. They just weren't followed up enough. I think it's quite rare that people truly live off the grid, and though it will take police quite awhile to follow up the data-matching they have been doing, it could still bring results.

Edited to add - Say the child was two and a half when she died (the lowest end of the given age range) and she died a year ago (the most recent possible date of death given) that would make her three and a half now if she had lived, and four years old around the start of the 2016 school year. In WA, this is the age they start kindy. Not sure if SA is the same?

 

[LEO123]

Although I am not quite old enough to have been around at the time, I have read that there was widespread condemnation/criticism of Lindy Chamberlain because she had a black dress for baby Azaria (and it probably caused some of the rumours to gain oxygen eg: she was involved in satanic rituals and sacrificed the infant). Some older generations were averse to children wearing black (maybe because it seemed "occult" or because it had long been associated with death and mourning).

I have read that some people dislike the colour purple and will never dress their children in purple or use it as home decor because there is a superstition that it "invites death". (Purples/lilacs were also been dressed in as a family came out of mourning "half mourning"... which I guess is why some people associate 'death' with certain colours).

I think as time progresses, people are less bothered by "bad colours" as the association with death becomes less recent and less relevant.

Back in the 70's you just didn't wear black during the day; it just wasn't done. I remember being told in a class at a secretarial course in the late 70's that it was not appropriate to wear black during the day, it was only for the evening. I remember agreeing and thinking it was awful to wear black during the day. I wear black all the time these days. Times have changed, but as for a child wearing black back then, it just didn't happen.

 

[Confusion]

Back in the 70's you just didn't wear black during the day; it just wasn't done. I remember being told in a class at a secretarial course in the late 70's that it was not appropriate to wear black during the day, it was only for the evening. I remember agreeing and thinking it was awful to wear black during the day. I wear black all the time these days. Times have changed, but as for a child wearing black back then, it just didn't happen.

I've never been extremely fashion conscious, but I had no problem wearing black during the day during the 70s or any other time. Most of the people I knew back then also wore it at least occasionally during the day. Maybe it's just because I didn't live in Australia.

MOO

 

[Imagining]

Perhaps they've already been exposed. I'm talking about the House of Horrors revealed in all it's horror in 2008. There is every possibly that there is a connection here. Trudy Quinlivan, who is now on the run, was part of that family. This was briefly discussed back in an earlier thread and I still believe it possible that there could be a connection to this case.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...7-to-authorities/story-e6frea83-1226654327658

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...t-to-stand-trial/story-e6frea83-1226077069252

https://www.facebook.com/victoriapo...d=853928664679271&offset= 0&total_comments=26

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-20/woman-charged-over-sa-child-neglect-wanted-on-warrant/6335552

Trudy Quinlivan could certainly fit in with the Wynarka case IMO. She disappeared in April of this year and the suitcase was found in July. So where is Trudy? Someone is obviously hiding and helping here. I don't think she could survive on her own. I have found no mention of her arrest between April and time of writing.

Trudy had given birth to three children from memory. Perhaps Trudy gave birth to a fourth child. A daughter who was badly beaten (not necessarily by Trudy) and died. The people living in that house would not have reported the death of a child or even sought medical help IMO. So what to do? Wrap the body up and secret it somewhere on the property. The child may have not been Trudy's daughter but one of the other 21 (or more) kids living in that house. Maybe it was a child that Trudy cared about and she has clung onto the remains ever since. Scooping up clothing, not necessarily all belonging to the deceased little girl, and stuffing them into an old suitcase, along with the remains of the little girl. Some of the clothing may have belonged to some of the other children, both boys and girls.

I have no idea how and why little Angel ended up where she was found but one thought is that Trudy has made her way to the Mallee area, is hiding out in one of the bush camps and has either dumped the suitcase herself or someone who is hiding her has done so.

I'm happy for everyone to poke holes in this theory but I feel it needs to be discussed further.

Thanks Makara for the info. Never heard of this until now. It seems you already have found the perpetrator!

Well, the best way is definitely getting all the DNA from the House of Horrors family and cross check with the child’s bones DNA. Bingo!

Although there is no mention from the police or media about the connection between this House of Horrors family and the child’s bone, I would hope that the police have already taken this step – DNA checking. Thanks to this DNA age, it really helps made our life and mind a lot easier.

In the meantime, we can only continue to speculate.

If there are these Trudy family and the Colt family, there could really be more families like this out there.

There are two interesting timelines. In around Jun 2008, one of the children was taken to hospital, starved and badly bruised. This was the trigger when this House of Horrors was discovered. This June 2008 is close to the possible time when the child in the suitcase might have died since 2007, she could have died in 2008.

That seems to be the only time the House of Horrors family had a child going to the hospital. It is possible that this very angry adult who had caused this child to the hospital might had also killed and hid another child at around the same time within the House of Horrors family.

Talking about 2007 or 2008, there was an economic downturn, not sure if that might caused a lot of tension to many families and led to these tragedies around this time?

Another timeline is Trudy disappeared in around Mar 2015, as already mentioned by Makara, that is probably also the time the very first sighting of a suitcase in that area from some witnesses.

Trudy’s sister, Tania is the mastermind, she could be the one who got rid of the child’s bones?

A family like this is almost impossible that there could be anyone who could come forward to say they know the child, in such a mess and surrounded with all the addicts or criminals.

 

[Imagining]

Could the deterioration of the top of the tutu and the smile tshirt be due to food spillage on the clothing causing it to rot faster?
Little kids tend to wear a lot of their food down their fronts and assuming these items were not laundered before being packed away, I wonder if a combination of food and saliva would cause that rot?

In my earlier post, I thought it is to do with the decomposing of the organs that caused the stomach/tummy area so decomposed in the tutu dress. From instinct, I believe that is the area where most bacteria would be created. I have read that stomach and other organs are the very first to be decomposed. Sorry ,this might all sounds revolting.

Again from instinct, I believe food scraps would not cause this kind of erosion.

 

[crabstick]

I think the suspicion of Azaria was the religion the parents were involved in.
Part of that religion related to no blood transfusions etc.
The associated aspects brought family under suspicion that the child may have met foul play because of scissors found etc.
They felt the child may have been murdered because there was an illness involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Chamberlain-Creighton
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chamberlain

Although I am not quite old enough to have been around at the time, I have read that there was widespread condemnation/criticism of Lindy Chamberlain because she had a black dress for baby Azaria (and it probably caused some of the rumours to gain oxygen eg: she was involved in satanic rituals and sacrificed the infant). Some older generations were averse to children wearing black (maybe because it seemed "occult" or because it had long been associated with death and mourning)

 

[scandinavian girl]

House of horrors

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/photos/photos-e6frecgc-1225937816697?page=1

If one could recognise an item out of "our" the suitcase, ie clothing on the clothes line or things in some rooms ....

This caught my eye, pic 16 the corner of the bed and the fabric with yellow spots. I don´t know but I went back to that pic several times so something is familiar in a way. I am trying to insert a screenshot, hopes it works.:thinking:

 

[hideoustroll]

I think the suspicion of Azaria was the religion the parents were involved in.
Part of that religion related to no blood transfusions etc.
The associated aspects brought family under suspicion that the child may have met foul play because of scissors found etc.
They felt the child may have been murdered because there was an illness involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Chamberlain-Creighton
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chamberlain

Though there was suspicion of them due to their religion, I think the Chamberlains were Seventh Day Adventists, not Jehovah's Witnesses, so blood transfusions probably weren't relevant.

 

[crabstick]

Is says she came under public scrutiny. I dont remember anyone saying she had done it.
Many of us knew indigenous had babies taken and the wild animals had become very used to humans. There has been some Fraser island attacks.
There is no denying dingoes are very cunning streetsmart wild animals.
But the media hyped the Chamerlain case so high, it dominated news for a long time. There was no missing it.

Country people tend to wear darker colours in the bush. Its common sense unless your royalty with laundry staff.
Although, none of the clothing is dark, except the Holden shorts?
There doesnt appear to be anything in the colour.

Though there was suspicion of them due to their religion, I think the Chamberlains were Seventh Day Adventists, not Jehovah's Witnesses, so blood transfusions probably weren't relevant.