Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

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jjenny said:
She claimed her children disliked mushrooms, but who knows if that's accurate. She also claimed she fed the children her beef wellington with mushrooms scrapped off. But if beef wellington had death cap mushrooms, it would still be poisonous. But her children apparently had no symptoms.
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Yes, the experts on the show said that for sure the toxins would have leached into the beef. That Death Cap poison is very heat resistant and does not degrade due to heat.

Apparently, some poisons degrade and become less toxic due to heat (cooking), but not the toxins in Death Cap mushrooms.

The photos of beef wellington that they were showing was a large piece of beef, coated in mushroom coating, then wrapped in pastry and cooked. Then cutting slices of it to serve. Apparently, EP said each guest helped themselves to their own slice of the beef wellington.
 
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nightrider17 said:
So she went to the Rubbish Dump before the lunch?? - am I understanding that correctly?? From the Show - Under Investigation.

And maybe more items were disposed of at the same time?? baking pan and utensils?? MOO
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The private detective said that he didn't know what to make of the remark about the worker "not working on that Saturday morning". But he made sure that he mentioned it on the show.

The workers must have told him about the police looking for (specifically) microwave trays and other kitchen utensils on the Tuesday.

My thought was that perhaps the mushroom paste was microwaved at some point before coating the beef. Or that she said she reheated the leftover beef wellington in the microwave the next day.
 
Sorry - so why did she go to the Dump before the Lunch - I am not understanding If I am getting this correct??.

I thought she only went to the Dump after SP raised the possibility of whether she used the dehydrator and implied she had something to do with the deaths and she reacted by disposing of dehydrator in a panic?? MOO
 
kittythehare said:
i am assuming she lived with her two children and that nobody else lived in that house.
Her 2 children disliked mushrooms so any she had in the house would have been for her own personal use alone.
Unless she was having guests.

How often did she entertain guests?
was it a rare or frequent occurrence?

I cannot get a sense of her personality at all and find myself grasping at straws constantly.
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Perhaps she has no personality? I understand what you mean, there seems to be nothing coming from her. She has either completely shut-down from stress since the deaths … or she was emotionally shut down prior, which might have led to this situation.
 
Hypothetically - I wonder if EP had said from the start she is a mushroom forager and used them in her meal. Foraged for them a few months back dehydrated them and then subsequently used them in the lunch she prepared innocently.

Could she have then raised some doubt about whether at some point in the Death Cap Mushroom's growth that they can be hard to recognise or when they are smaller in size harder to discern from regular non poisonous mushrooms.

So therefore - if she had used that option - would it be harder to establish her intent?? I am just thinking if there is any scope for mistaken identification with these particular mushrooms??? MOO
 
Baby baby Jane said:
Perhaps she has no personality? I understand what you mean, there seems to be nothing coming from her. She has either completely shut-down from stress since the deaths … or she was emotionally shut down prior, which might have led to this situation.
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Just to add ... they repeatedly showed the same media interactions with EP. Over and over throughout the show.

They showed her upset and saying these were her children's grandparents, she loved them. Covering her face as she cried.
They showed her angry .... I am having a s - house - time, and you are not helping, as she closed the door on the media.
 
nightrider17 said:
Hypothetically - I wonder if EP had said from the start she is a mushroom forager and used them in her meal. Foraged for them a few months back dehydrated them and then subsequently used them in the lunch she prepared innocently.

Could she have then raised some doubt about whether at some point in the Death Cap Mushroom's growth that they can be hard to recognise or when they are smaller in size harder to discern from regular non poisonous mushrooms.

So therefore - if she had used that option - would it be harder to establish her intent?? I am just thinking if there is any scope for mistaken identification with these particular mushrooms??? MOO
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I think there is scope for mistaken mushroom identification.
I think there is possibly also scope for someone replacing safe mushrooms with dangerous ones and just altering labels.
i just do not know who had access to her home and who her enemies were really.
 
Oona said:
Same, especially if Death Caps were not in season.
If it was a deliberate and premeditated act it may have been many months in the planning.

In the “Under Investigation” show I think there was an inference that the dehydrator may have been discarded on the day of the lunch.
I am intrigued by how the conversation with the children about the dehydrator (at the hospital) might have unfolded, “hey mum, why did you take the dehydrator to the tip?” (hypothetical).
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She may have had a batch on hand in her cupboard, as leftovers from when she "experimented" with a previous poisoning? And only decided at the last minute to toss them in; perhaps she heard something she didn't like in the hours before she started making the Welly?
 
The more I detail I read (assuming news is reliable), the more EP account seems suspicious.

“She said that despite suggestions from detectives she did not fall ill, she ate some leftovers and suffered stomach pains and diarrhoea.”
So … she ate leftovers? Next day? But not the lunch? “Leftovers” is vague enough to mean anything from fridge. Again tummy ache and diarrhea - haven’t we all faked that in school?

EP says dried mushrooms from Melbourne unnamed Asian market purchased “months ago”. The racism and assumption that “Asians” don’t know what they’re doing is just wrong. No one whose business grows mushrooms for sale is growing poison mushrooms. They don’t forage mushrooms, they grow them in big sheds, very efficient & modern. Yes, in Asia!
Furthermore, if those Asian mushrooms were DRIED why did she need to use the food dehydrator to dry them?

Grr
 
SouthAussie said:
Yes, the experts on the show said that for sure the toxins would have leached into the beef. That Death Cap poison is very heat resistant and does not degrade due to heat.

Apparently, some poisons degrade and become less toxic due to heat (cooking), but not the toxins in Death Cap mushrooms.

The photos of beef wellington that they were showing was a large piece of beef, coated in mushroom coating, then wrapped in pastry and cooked. Then cutting slices of it to serve. Apparently, EP said each guest helped themselves to their own slice of the beef wellington.
Click to expand...
It's a good bet that of she fed children her beef wellington, either it wasn't poisoned or she didn't feed it to them.
There could have been two preparation of beef wellington, one with poison and one without. Or poison could have been in something else, such as gravy or sauce (beef wellington is usually served with either gravy or sauce).
 
jjenny said:
DBM - getting clearer info.
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nightrider17 said:
Hypothetically - I wonder if EP had said from the start she is a mushroom forager and used them in her meal. Foraged for them a few months back dehydrated them and then subsequently used them in the lunch she prepared innocently.

Could she have then raised some doubt about whether at some point in the Death Cap Mushroom's growth that they can be hard to recognise or when they are smaller in size harder to discern from regular non poisonous mushrooms.

So therefore - if she had used that option - would it be harder to establish her intent?? I am just thinking if there is any scope for mistaken identification with these particular mushrooms??? MOO
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IIRC, in previous posts, it's been mentioned that it is very difficult to discern differences between DCs and harmless fungi. If this is so, IMO accidental poisoning is quite feasible.

Indeed, if this is so, I wonder how commonly known this fact is known, as it sounds horrifically dangerous to consume any foraged fungi.

I wonder also, if a forager were to unknowingly touch a DC, could any toxin could be transmitted via hand to their mouth some time later, consequently causing grave illness/death. Perhaps foragers wear gloves? TIA on anyone's thoughts.
 
jjleroche said:
IIRC, in previous posts, it's been mentioned that it is very difficult to discern differences between DCs and harmless fungi. If this is so, IMO accidental poisoning is quite feasible.

Indeed, if this is so, I wonder how commonly known this fact is known, as it sounds horrifically dangerous to consume any foraged fungi.

I wonder also, if a forager were to unknowingly touch a DC, could any toxin could be transmitted via hand to their mouth some time later, consequently causing grave illness/death. Perhaps foragers wear gloves? TIA on anyone's thoughts.
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It is not that difficult to figure out the differences. I used to forage mushrooms all the time when I was younger. Obviously I am still alive.
 
Baby baby Jane said:
EP says dried mushrooms from Melbourne unnamed Asian market purchased “months ago”. The racism and assumption that “Asians” don’t know what they’re doing is just wrong.
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(snipped)
Where do you see that assumption? If there was any assumption, how can you tell that it wasn't the opposite, that "Asians" do know what they're doing and therefore to the best of her knowledge the mushrooms she fed her guests were safe?
 
jjenny said:
It's a good bet that of she fed children her beef wellington, either it wasn't poisoned or she didn't feed it to them.
There could have been two preparation of beef wellington, one with poison and one without. Or poison could have been in something else, such as gravy or sauce (beef wellington is usually served with either gravy or sauce).
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Yes, if she scraped the mushrooms off then she basically fed them tenderloin steaks since she’d have to remove the outer layers to remove the mushrooms.

Plus, tenderloin roasts are very lean and have tapered ends which usually are trimmed off in order to keep the Wellington a consistent size for even wrapping and baking. Why wouldn’t she just stash the ends for the children’s dinner?

The real question IMO is whether EP will stick with her story of buying the mushrooms from an unidentified Asian market or change it to her accidentally foraging death caps. Perhaps she’s waiting for the toxicology results before saying more? MOO
 
jjenny said:
I don't believe DC mushrooms were store bought.
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No, I agree. It's not a bad story though. I would remember either of the two major supermarkets because they're red or green, but I couldn't necessarily pinpoint an Asian grocer I'd been to once in the local Chinatown, or say whether it had been Chinese or Vietnamese or Korean perhaps. And if they took away my computer, that's like two-thirds of my brain gone.
 
new from herald sun today, paywalled......

Vital mushroom toxicology samples may not have been taken in time​

If vital samples weren’t taken from the victims in time there can only be two theories: the toxin was never there to begin with, or it came and went before it could be detected.

 
bearbear said:
new from herald sun today, paywalled......

Vital mushroom toxicology samples may not have been taken in time​

If vital samples weren’t taken from the victims in time there can only be two theories: the toxin was never there to begin with, or it came and went before it could be detected.

Click to expand...
Are they speculating? What makes to think samples were not taken in time?
 
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