Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What when her friends and husband can say it’s rubbish as she had books on the subject and has been foraging for years?

Then this doesn't make much sense either unless she'd decided to do a sort of murder-suicide mission (aka give up on her own life and any future).

She would have had to forage for the deadly mushrooms in advance (which would have been several months ago according to some people's opinion on when the mushrooms would have been growing in her area), dehydrate them, powder them maybe, store them safely, then bring them out for use when needed. That's a very premeditated event.

She would also know more or less what to expect in terms of symptoms and loss of life and the time line.

So how on earth would she expect to get away with it if we assume these factors? Unless she no longer cared whether to get away with or not and is quite accepting that she'll be spending the rest of her life in prison, having fully abandoned any concept of the future?

OR being terribly and extremely mentally unwell in a way that personally I have seen people - sufficient to say a psychotic disorder such as schizophrenia that when florid and manic could 'activate' and when not could be functioning normally. In which case she would be already known for this severe illness.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

But if you foraged mushrooms and killed a bunch of people using these mushrooms you are still to blame, even if you didn't kill a bunch of people on purpose. But if you bought poisoned mushrooms you are blameless.

I'm sure she's perfectly intelligent enough to comprehend that in today's world you can't just magically say you purchased poison mushrooms somewhere with no proof, no evidence, etc - and also - whilst being simultaneously well known for foraging mushrooms and not be the key suspect.

Unless - someone else did her shopping for her and switched out the mushrooms for poisonous ones. Or there's a malicious tamperer who messed with the store product as a one off and it so happens the person who purchased them was also a forager and had a dehydrator.

It is possible someone targeted the whole household and she got lucky IMO but that would hardly be likely by way of a product tampering situation.

 

[jjenny]

I'm sure she's perfectly intelligent enough to comprehend that in today's world you can't just magically say you purchased poison mushrooms somewhere with no proof, no evidence, etc - and also - whilst being simultaneously well known for foraging mushrooms and not be the key suspect.

Unless - someone else did her shopping for her and switched out the mushrooms for poisonous ones. Or there's a malicious tamperer who messed with the store product as a one off and it so happens the person who purchased them was also a forager and had a dehydrator.

It is possible someone targeted the whole household and she got lucky IMO but that would hardly be likely by way of a product tampering situation.

I don't agree at all. Poisonings are hard to prove. I am not sure why someone would assume they wouldn't get away with it. Many people do get away with it.

 

[jjenny]

Then this doesn't make much sense either unless she'd decided to do a sort of murder-suicide mission (aka give up on her own life and any future).

She would have had to forage for the deadly mushrooms in advance (which would have been several months ago according to some people's opinion on when the mushrooms would have been growing in her area), dehydrate them, powder them maybe, store them safely, then bring them out for use when needed. That's a very premeditated event.

She would also know more or less what to expect in terms of symptoms and loss of life and the time line.

So how on earth would she expect to get away with it if we assume these factors? Unless she no longer cared whether to get away with or not and is quite accepting that she'll be spending the rest of her life in prison, having fully abandoned any concept of the future?

OR being terribly and extremely mentally unwell in a way that personally I have seen people - sufficient to say a psychotic disorder such as schizophrenia that when florid and manic could 'activate' and when not could be functioning normally. In which case she would be already known for this severe illness.

People get away with poisonings day in and day out. If you look at cases, there are a lot of cases that have only been discovered after multiple victims have already died. My guess is a lot of cases go un-noticed or un-prosecuted because they might be hard to prove.

 

[mirage1]

Not poisonous but drugs, such as cannabis plants maybe?

She would have zero reason to think the police would be checking her food dehydrator if it was not linked to the deaths. If it was not linked she would have no more reason to be anymore worried about it than her microwave. All the reasons you guys are giving make no sense if she is innocent because she would have never used the dehydrator since her story is she bought mushrooms from a store.

 

[jjenny]

She would have zero reason to think the police would be checking her food dehydrator if it was not linked to the deaths. If it was not linked she would have no more reason to be anymore worried about it than her microwave. All the reasons you guys are giving make no sense if she is innocent because she would have never used the dehydrator since her story is she bought mushrooms from a store.

ITA. Why would someone panic about a dehydrator if dehydrator was not used for anything nefarious? She gave left overs for testing. She could have done the same with a dehydrator.

 

[jjenny]

Not that long ago case where a professor killed his wife by cyanide which he ordered at work several days before her untimely demise. Obviously since the guy is a professor he was not an idiot. But he must have thought he would get away with it, and he probably could have if hospital employees didn't get suspicions and saved the samples from the wife for testing. It's not a done deal that poisoning would be discovered and prosecuted, since hospitals don't routinely test for poisons.

 

[jjleroche]

Why in the world would anybody want to celebrate their birthday with the estrange spouse of their son? Without their son being even present? There have been no suggestion anybody's birthday was being celebrated in this lunch.

EP had stated that she felt very close to her mother-in-law, particularly since her own mother had passed away. She also took over the Burra Flyer local newsletter from them.

 

[mirage1]

I'm sure she's perfectly intelligent enough to comprehend that in today's world you can't just magically say you purchased poison mushrooms somewhere with no proof, no evidence, etc - and also - whilst being simultaneously well known for foraging mushrooms and not be the key suspect.

Which is exactly what she did though. She does not strike me as very intelligent from the evidence we have so far.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't agree at all. Poisonings are hard to prove. I am not sure why someone would assume they wouldn't get away with it. Many people do get away with it.

Well people can't have the argument both ways around - she's either an experienced and knowledgable forager who has a good comprehension of plant based poisons and their effects -or- she isn't.

If she is, then she would know that extreme symptoms would rapidly onset within a few days and result in death. She would know that everywhere the people went and what they did would be scrutinised, including her home and the meal.

My argument is *if* she did this, she may well know DC are deadly and will cause organ failure but maybe imagined this happens over a longer and more subtle period ultimately ending in liver / organ failure or multiple ailments. That could mean four people in their 70s died within the next few years and nobody joined the dots.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

ITA. Why would someone panic about a dehydrator if dehydrator was not used for anything nefarious? She gave left overs for testing. She could have done the same with a dehydrator.

I suggested she may have been using the dehydrator for drying out cannabis or such like. In that case, if she realised her home might be searched by police, she could dump it for fear of being labelled a drug user. And that could affect how people think of her and her ability to parent, plus growing and storing (or selling) weed could be a crime where smoking not so much.

 

[jjenny]

Well people can't have the argument both ways around - she's either an experienced and knowledgable forager who has a good comprehension of plant based poisons and their effects -or- she isn't.

If she is, then she would know that extreme symptoms would rapidly onset within a few days and result in death. She would know that everywhere the people went and what they did would be scrutinised, including her home and the meal.

My argument is *if* she did this, she may well know DC are deadly and will cause organ failure but maybe imagined this happens over a longer and more subtle period ultimately ending in liver / organ failure or multiple ailments. That could mean four people in their 70s died within the next few years and nobody joined the dots.

Just take a look at some other poisoning cases, like the one I mentioned about professor poisoning his wife with the cyanide he purchased several days before her untimely demise. It always seems obvious in hindsight, but people think they will get away with it. And many likely do. Hospitals don't routinely test for poisons.

 

[jjenny]

I suggested she may have been using the dehydrator for drying out cannabis or such like. In that case, if she realised her home might be searched by police, she could dump it for fear of being labelled a drug user. And that could affect how people think of her and her ability to parent, plus growing and storing (or selling) weed could be a crime where smoking not so much.

Sure. Lets wait to see what she was drying in her dehydrator. Thankfully police found it.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Just take a look at some other poisoning cases, like the one I mentioned about professor poisoning his wife with the cyanide he purchased several days before her untimely demise. It always seems obvious in hindsight, but people think they will get away with it. And many likely do. Hospitals don't routinely test for poisons.

Oh sure I agree all sorts of murder goes undetected where it's ONE person at a time, not an entire group of four (or nearly five) closely related people. No one in their right mind would imagine to get away with that and I'm open to thinking she's not in her right mind but if she's *that* unwell and unsafe, she needs to be kept safely detained in an institution.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

What when her friends and husband can say it’s rubbish as she had books on the subject and has been foraging for years?

I have books on mushrooms and have picked them in the past but there's no way I could say I could never make a mistake.

Even experts have been fooled.

 

[jjenny]

I have books on mushrooms and have picked them in the past but there's no way I could say I could never make a mistake.

Even experts have been fooled.

Are you buying those poisoned mushrooms in a supermarket? Because that's what being implied in this case, not foraging.

 

[jjenny]

Oh sure I agree all sorts of murder goes undetected where it's ONE person at a time, not an entire group of four (or nearly five) closely related people. No one in their right mind would imagine to get away with that and I'm open to thinking she's not in her right mind but if she's *that* unwell and unsafe, she needs to be kept safely detained in an institution.

There are lots of poisoning cases with multiple victims.

 

[mirage1]

I suggested she may have been using the dehydrator for drying out cannabis or such like. In that case, if she realised her home might be searched by police, she could dump it for fear of being labelled a drug user. And that could affect how people think of her and her ability to parent, plus growing and storing (or selling) weed could be a crime where smoking not so much.

An innocent person would have no reason to think the police would be searching the dehydrator. It would be a totally random thing to believe from an innocent persons perspective even if she thought she was a suspect. The only reason its a theory is because she talked about it at the hospital and then dumped it.

 

[JBowie]

can you paraphrase? it's a paywall for me

The essence of the article is that there continues to be so much rampant speculation and amateur sleuthing worldwide via social media -- widely-accessible from Oz -- that, in the opinions of some, EP could not be expected to receive a fair trial should she be charged with anything related to the deaths.

It mentions the various YouTube channels which analyse body language.

Some Tik Tok users have created (or re-worded?) a song about her and performed a dance to it.

One person is offering embroidery based on mushrooms if they exceed a target follower count.

Social media sites covering this case are being promoted heavily by the various algorithms used by the companies owning the site software, thereby helping to drive the speculation and theories.

 

[kittythehare]

The essence of the article is that there continues to be so much rampant speculation and amateur sleuthing worldwide via social media -- widely-accessible from Oz -- that, in the opinions of some, EP could not be expected to receive a fair trial should she be charged with anything related to the deaths.

It mentions the various YouTube channels which analyse body language.

Some Tik Tok users have created (or re-worded?) a song about her and performed a dance to it.

One person is offering embroidery based on mushrooms if they exceed a target follower count.

Social media sites covering this case are being promoted heavily by the various algorithms used by the companies owning the site software, thereby helping to drive the speculation and theories.

Words matter and have real time consequences.