Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[jjenny]

Words matter and have real time consequences.

Hers is hardly the only case widely discussed on social media.

 

[kittythehare]

What did she do or didn't do, that is the question here.

The question is actually what happened.
She may not have done anything at all to contribute to it.
It's good to look at the big picture and it's good to examine all possibilities.

 

[kittythehare]

Hers is hardly the only case widely discussed on social media.

Hers is the only case we are discussing on this thread however and I wouldn't downplay the consequences if they mean she does not get a fair trial.
No matter how many fb or whatever groups are discussing.
This is real.

 

[jjenny]

Hers is the only case we are discussing on this thread however and I wouldn't downplay the consequences if they mean she does not get a fair trial.
No matter how many fb or whatever groups are discussing.
This is real.

Sure hers is on this thread but there are lots of threads. If she goes on trial, effort would have to be made to find jurors not discussing her case on social media, just as with all the other infamous cases.

 

[jjenny]

It is self explanatory and simples, really.
The discussion arose organically from a member questioning whether they had any therapeutic value in mainstream medicine or alternative medicine.
we located several instances of them being used therapeutically in medicine in acclaimed cancer treatment centres.
we then went on to explore whether they had been extracted to use in alternative medicine and that search rendered nothing at all.
we were also exploring why someone might keep dc's in their home.

That's how it happened.
it is completely relevant to the case and was only discussed in the context of the case.
Scroll and Roll?

What is being used for cancer is not an actual death cap mushroom toxin but modified versions of it synthetically made. Someone with no medical education is not going to be able to make that in their garage.

 

[kittythehare]

What is being used for cancer is not an actual death cap mushroom toxin but modified versions of it synthetically made. Someone with no medical education is not going to be able to make that in their garage.

And nobody suggested they were.

 

[al66pine]

(Possible) Crim Charges & Divorce Financial Settlement?

....
If it’s the latter , her time in prison will damage her relationship with the children and impact divorce financial settlement
If it’s the former it may still do the same....

@Rumination1 (snipped for focus)
Yes, regardless of any charges filed, hard to imagine EP's relationship w the children will continue unscathed.

As to charges impacting the divorce financial settlement?
Whether charges are for murders, manslaughters, or other offenses, aside from EP paying Beaucoup Big Bucks for legal fees & expenses, how does that affect the divorce fin. settlement?
@Rumination1? Anyone? TiA.

 

[Charlot123]

It is self explanatory and simples, really.
The discussion arose organically from a member questioning whether they had any therapeutic value in mainstream medicine or alternative medicine.
we located several instances of them being used therapeutically in medicine in acclaimed cancer treatment centres.
we then went on to explore whether they had been extracted to use in alternative medicine and that search rendered nothing at all.
we were also exploring why someone might keep dc's in their home.

That's how it happened.
it is completely relevant to the case and was only discussed in the context of the case.
Scroll and Roll?

The approach for treatment of cancer is based on finding something that would kill tumor cells before it kills the host's (human) ones. It is not mainstream vs alternative. (Mainstream vs alternative would be shark cartilage for cancer). It is about finding the molecule that would penetrate, preferentially, cancerous cells and tag this substance with a toxin for these cells. Finding the molecules is the problem, so science is looking everywhere, including mushrooms.

I fail to see how this idea is related to EP. Pure amanita is not the treatment. One of the components could be used, but it is far from any trials.

 

[Charlot123]

(Possible) Crim Charges & Divorce Financial Settlement?

@Rumination1 (snipped for focus)
Yes, regardless of any charges filed, hard to imagine EP's relationship w the children will continue unscathed.

As to charges impacting the divorce financial settlement?
Whether charges are for murders, manslaughters, or other offenses, aside from EP paying Beaucoup Big Bucks for legal fees & expenses, how does that affect the divorce fin. settlement?
@Rumination1? Anyone? TiA.

The truth is, we don't know how EP's relationships with the children were to start with. Also, when it comes to children, it stops being about EP, it is children's safety first.

As to the settlement, her money is her money and whether poi or not, this shouldn't change. (I fail to see why the fruit of a mother's lifelong work should, even partially, support any guy marrying the daughter, but it is my personal opinion.)

 

[Salah11]

<modsnip>


She is in deep doo-doo here and won’t be getting away with this imo



She has lied , lied and lied again and her best one is she can’t remember where she brought the mushrooms.

I mean if her story had any hint of the truth in it she should of been instantly panicked that a load more people may die from poisoned mushrooms and called the police to help them find this Mystical Asian Store.

 

[kittythehare]

The approach for treatment of cancer is based on finding something that would kill tumor cells before it kills the host's (human) ones. It is not mainstream vs alternative. (Mainstream vs alternative would be shark cartilage for cancer). It is about finding the molecule that would penetrate, preferentially, cancerous cells and tag this substance with a toxin for these cells. Finding the molecules is the problem, so science is looking everywhere, including mushrooms.

I fail to see how this idea is related to EP. Pure amanita is not the treatment. One of the components could be used, but it is far from any trials.

I'm personally trained in both disciplines so I already have some understanding, thanks.
I'm afraid you are incorrect.
many links posted..

<modsnip: removed snark>

 

[al66pine]

Mushroom cook says she bought fungi from Asian grocer and her children ate the lunch leftovers

Erin Patterson told police she, too, was sick from the beef Wellington lunch that police suspect killed her former in-laws and another relative.

www.theage.com.au

was referring to this article which was posted 2 wks ago with no new updates from LE.

@kittythehare Thx for your response.

 

[Charlot123]

I'm personally trained in both disciplines so I already have some understanding, thanks.
I'm afraid you are incorrect.
many links posted..

<modsnip: removed snark>

Not personally trained in oncology or alternative medicine, but last time I read, the article you cited, from a good source, spoke about two genes. It further on spoke about both copies of one gene being knocked out in about 60% of colon, ovarian and breast cancers. And the novel discovery that one copy of the other gene is present in these tumors. This makes total sense. One of the approaches in modern medicine is to raise antibodies to specific genes expressed by the tumors. Alpha-amatoxin was mentioned in one of the links. So you see, I read it. EP's case is not about the genetics of tumors. Her case is about four people being poisoned after eating in her house.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

<modsnip - quoted post was off topic>

For now, I’m stuck on her being a POI for three possibly suspicious deaths and one attempted, who has made a statement with insinuated explanations which makes little logical sense to me,who can only remember a shop as being “Asian”, and who lickety spit tried to ditch a bit of kit as her relatives fought for their lives.

 

[kittythehare]

Not personally trained in oncology or alternative medicine, but last time I read, the article you cited, from a good source, spoke about two genes. It further on spoke about both copies of one gene being knocked out in about 60% of colon, ovarian and breast cancers. And the novel discovery that one copy of the other gene is present in these tumors. This makes total sense. One of the approaches in modern medicine is to raise antibodies to specific genes expressed by the tumors. Alpha-amatoxin was mentioned in one of the links. So you see, I read it. EP's case is not about the genetics of tumors. Her case is about four people being

The conversation you are objecting to is a discussion about the alleged causative agent.
Moving on.

 

[MsMarple]

Yes, people turn to all kind of natural cures trying to beat cancer. We have heard no suggestion this was the case with her parents, or that she was preparing any such cures. Also, eating poisonous mushrooms is not going to cure cancer.

Let’s hope she wasn’t trying to cure her mother’s cancer with death cap treatments!

I agree, the notion that EP was concocting potions out of death cap mushrooms for health or beauty purposes is <modsnip> based on zero evidence. How does that even relate to her luncheon guests being poisoned?

 

[kittythehare]

Let’s hope she wasn’t trying to cure her mother’s cancer with death cap treatments!

I agree, the notion that EP was concocting potions out of death cap mushrooms for health or beauty purposes is far fetched fantasy based on zero evidence. How does that even relate to her luncheon guests being poisoned?

Who brought up the subject?
I did not see it mentioned that she used DC mushrooms for health or beauty.
Do you have a link, please?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Who brought up the subject?
I did not see it mentioned that she used DC mushrooms for health or beauty.
Do you have a link, please?

Confused here.

if it hasn’t been mentioned, why are we discussing cancer treatment? I may have missed something, haven’t followed too closely today.

 

[MsMarple]

Who brought up the subject?
I did not see it mentioned that she used DC mushrooms for health or beauty.
Do you have a link, please?

You and @Observe_dont_Absorb brought up the subject. Here are the posts. In the second one you said:

Is it possible she had attempted to create a cancer cure from it at some stage in the past?

Maybe she was drying out all sorts of different types of plants and mushrooms that have medicinal or psychoactive properties?

Is it possible that something like death cap mushrooms can be turned into a paste that is applied to the skin for some type of remedy? to burn off warts or something?

I once had a friend who would pay huge money for any of these sort of alternative remedies any time he was unwell despite in the end it caused his early death.

actually

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Article content​

Article content​

Researchers in Germany are in trials with an α-amanitin compound derived from wild mushrooms. But only tiny amounts of the toxin can be extracted from wild mushrooms and collecting them is dangerous.

Larger amounts of the compound will be needed as research progresses from petri-dish scale to medical trials, to say nothing of the amounts required for commercial sales.

“And even if you have enough of the natural toxin, you can’t really modify it,” said Perrin. “Our goal is to build a derivative with specific toxicity and that’s not something you can do working with the natural compound.”

It requires a choreography of different reactions and each product along the way has to be compatible with each reaction, and the next and the next, plus it has to be high-yielding,” he said.

Perrin is excited by the success other groups are having with cancer treatments in animal models, particularly in pancreatic cancer cells.

Article content​

“If it translates to humans, that’s huge,” he said. “Pancreatic cancer is uniformly a death sentence.”

Fatal death cap mushroom may ultimately be a life-saver

A deadly fungus that took the life of a three-year-old boy in B.C. two years ago may yet yield a life-saving cure.

vancouversun.com

From 2018, not sure whether this has been advanced in the interim or not..

Is it possible she had attempted to create a cancer cure from it at some stage in the past?

Long shot.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think someone posted about a personal thing, re cancer and some new treatment using DC and somehow it's taken off and over a few posts it's lost it's original meaning.