Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #6 *Arrest*

[Ellery84]

The ex-husband of a woman accused of killing three people with a deadly mushroom meal hasn't been home since she was charged with making four attempts on his life.

His neighbour revealed Simon Patterson hasn't returned to his house in several days as the community grapples with the 'bloody awful' allegations.



New mystery as mushroom cook's ex-husband vanishes

Source: DMA/Newswire

 

[Chimera]

The ex-husband of a woman accused of killing three people with a deadly mushroom meal hasn't been home since she was charged with making four attempts on his life.

His neighbour revealed Simon Patterson hasn't returned to his house in several days as the community grapples with the 'bloody awful' allegations.



New mystery as mushroom cook's ex-husband vanishes

Source: DMA/Newswire

Bbm.
Thanks for the link, @Ellery84 !
Somehow I missed this.
FOUR attempts.
EP is sickening !!
Omo.

 

[Ellery84]

Bbm.
Thanks for the link, @Ellery84 !
Somehow I missed this.
FOUR attempts.
EP is sickening !!
Omo.

Pleasure, Chimera. Happy to help.

Yes the allegations make me feel very uneasy.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Slice it up in advance and it's just going to be dried out, cold and nasty. A complete waste of a whole day cooking and wrapping and chilling and baking. There's a reason it's generally carved at the table, like a Christmas goose or turkey. It's about the spectacle as much as the eating of it.

MOO

But then if it had dried out, a nice dash of mushroom gravy would sort that issue out. JMO MOO

 

[Ellery84]

On first glance, the search for electronic devices and drives is a bit of a puzzler. Usually you think of computer evidence being central when someone has illicit photos/videos, or maybe if there are financial records that point to their crimes. Neither of those seem to apply here. I'm sure the authorities would love to find an incriminating email or a google search, but this just doesn't seem to be a case that would turn on that kind of evidence.

Instead, I think what would matter would be being able to prove that the lunch was poisoned, the testimony of Ian, Simon and others, as well as her own statements and actions that could be used against her.

My initial thought was that the search for electronic evidence was just a sort of cherry on top where the police hoped they could find something incriminating. However, in EP's court appearance, the prosecutor said they would need weeks to go through all the electronic evidence, so maybe there is something specific they want to find.

Also, if there really is damaging evidence stored on electronic devices, why didn't EP just destroy it? A few minutes with a drill or handsaw could have done a lot of damage and made it virtually impossible to retrieve any data.

Maybe she stored the devices away in a shed in a box of books or something, and figured her story about the Asian grocery store purchased mushrooms would be enough to provide reasonable doubt, and for the police to stay off her tail, indefinitely. IMO

It’s possible she had never heard of the AFP snigger dogs trained to identify technology, such as USB devices and lap tops: If she is a murderer as police say, and not just an accused murderer, then with the benefit of hindsight she may have instead put the hard drives in a blender or chucked them into the river somewhere….or as you suggested, utilised a drill and / or a handsaw to damage them significantly.

Maybe she’s a hoarder and likes to keep her data, and it may have been painful for her to get rid of it. A lot of people are like that, they like to hold onto things that are special to them.

Imo

I’m keeping in mind that Erin is entitled to the presumption of innocence on all charges.

 

[al66pine]

Agatha Christie books.

Yes, I was thinking of medicines/chemical substances ingested orally through a spiked drink or added to food.
I’m sure the accused’s internet search history will be interesting. She may also have books about plant medicine in her vast collection of books…Agatha Christie stories may have been a source of knowledge about poisoning for her too.

snipped for focus @Oona
Agreeing, EP'S internet search history will be interesting. Verrry innteresting.

Years ago I read most of Agatha Christie's 60+ books. Those books as a source of knowledge here? IDK, maybe as early "inspiration" for the poisoning concept, but I doubt they have enough detail to serve as actual how-to-murder-by-poisons guides. Jmo, IcbWrong.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If she did intentionally set out to poison them all, to death, then how could she be sure they'd all eat the food offered?

I think there must have been back and forth discussions with the group. Maybe even in a group chat phone app. What time are you arriving? I'm going to make something nice, are you all OK with beef? Anyone got any special dietary requirements? The others would doubtless have said please let us bring the refreshments and dessert. People don't just turn up en masse for a hefty fine dining experience at someone's home out of thin air.

If her intention was to poison them *all* then she'd have been pretty screwed if someone said they're on a fasting regime or a special controlled diet and they'll bring their own food but you all go ahead. Also what's the chances every single person is going to die with zero survivors? As we have seen two people have survived this episode, her husband the alleged main target, and Ian. 3 out of 5 sadly deceased. Hardly a watertight plan, if she's guilty as accused.

 

[SouthAussie]

The Herald Sun put up an article yesterday. They had been speaking with an unnamed police source about what the police are looking for on EP's electronic devices/storage that they took after the search with the technology dog.

Anything that EP has removed from the devices can be traced by the police specialist team.
It is not easy but usually doable.
Looking for evidence of searches about types of mushrooms and which had the most toxins.
Anything relating to poisoning.
Anything related to EP's behaviours.
Social media footprint ... conversations where EP has talked about this stuff on online forums.
The smallest things can show a pattern of behaviour.

Having said that, the article also says that the police would have had enough evidence to get a warrant. That a police affidavit would have provided enough evidence to get the search warrant.

The authors of the article said that it is believed police would have tracked EP's phone and tapped the property with listening devices.

Any deleted files from accused murderer Erin Patterson will likely be recovered

 

[mussopossum]

My suspicion is she didn't want to have to go through formal divorce proceedings as she was attempting to protect her wealth and property from being shared with SP.

If she was poisoning people to make them a bit poorly rather than dead, then I would suggest that was as a delay tactic and not because she wants to care for everybody unwell.

If she did this, maybe she thought she'd be making people feel long term sickly and taking a good few years off their lives through long slow liver failure. Perhaps she didn't know how DC mushrooms work or she though just a tiny bit would only have tiny effect (a lot of people here have said that even in tiniest amounts they are fatal)?

It's hard to imagine she had a cover story for everyone dropping down dead within a week. JMO MOO

I guess without more information on her history with the deceased (how they got along, any grudges etc) it is hard to gain a motive. The recent/current search of the property for electronic devices - I wonder if this is just a tip-off from someone who knows her that she owned more devices (which had not been seen previously) or that Simon has filled in a few more details that did not add up. I do find it odd though that if she had attempted several times with Simon in the past through an ingestable poison - How did she fail all of these times? That is if it was Dc mushrooms with him as well?

 

[Ellery84]

If she did intentionally set out to poison them all, to death, then how could she be sure they'd all eat the food offered?

I think there must have been back and forth discussions with the group. Maybe even in a group chat phone app. What time are you arriving? I'm going to make something nice, are you all OK with beef? Anyone got any special dietary requirements? The others would doubtless have said please let us bring the refreshments and dessert. People don't just turn up en masse for a hefty fine dining experience at someone's home out of thin air.

If her intention was to poison them *all* then she'd have been pretty screwed if someone said they're on a fasting regime or a special controlled diet and they'll bring their own food but you all go ahead. Also what's the chances every single person is going to die with zero survivors? As we have seen two people have survived this episode, her husband the alleged main target, and Ian. 3 out of 5 sadly deceased. Hardly a watertight plan, if she's guilty as accused.

From the information that I gleaned from watching the expose show on TV about this alleged crime entitled Under Investigation with Liz Hayes, on 9 Network (reference herein) UNDER INVESTIGATION with LIZ HAYES returns to expose what happened at that mushroom lunch.

As I understood it: One way someone could have executed so many deaths by DC mushroom poisoning is to increase the quantity of the mushrooms in the Beef Wellington dish so that if a diner took only a few bites, there would still be a good chance they consumed enough to ultimately pass away.

So I guess increasing the quantity and the consistency of the deadly mushrooms, is something Erin could have done, to help ensure there were no survivors. Imo

And maybe it was an accident, or she’s innocent. We’ll have to wait and see.

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>

I do find it odd though that if she had attempted several times with Simon in the past through an ingestable poison - How did she fail all of these times? That is if it was Dc mushrooms with him as well?

Escalating behaviour. imo
Maybe working up the courage to commit the final act and think she could get away with it.

"I'll try a little bit, see if he gets sick. I'll try a bit more, see if he gets sicker. Hmm, well nobody seemed to notice that I put toxin in his meal/drink. Maybe I can go the whole hog now."

 

[ch_13]

If she did intentionally set out to poison them all, to death, then how could she be sure they'd all eat the food offered?

I think there must have been back and forth discussions with the group. Maybe even in a group chat phone app. What time are you arriving? I'm going to make something nice, are you all OK with beef? Anyone got any special dietary requirements? The others would doubtless have said please let us bring the refreshments and dessert. People don't just turn up en masse for a hefty fine dining experience at someone's home out of thin air.

If her intention was to poison them *all* then she'd have been pretty screwed if someone said they're on a fasting regime or a special controlled diet and they'll bring their own food but you all go ahead. Also what's the chances every single person is going to die with zero survivors? As we have seen two people have survived this episode, her husband the alleged main target, and Ian. 3 out of 5 sadly deceased. Hardly a watertight plan, if she's guilty as accused.

They were family. Or ex-family, or whatever. And they seemed to be in regular touch.

I doubt a lot of back-and-forth was necessary. After you've known someone for a long time you know their dietary restrictions. You know who's picky and who cleans their plate. I'm guessing she knew full well from her past experiences that this would be a meal that the group would enjoy and would consume.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Maybe she stored the devices away in a shed in a box of books or something, and figured her story about the Asian grocery store purchased mushrooms would be enough to provide reasonable doubt, and for the police to stay off her tail, indefinitely. IMO

It’s possible she had never heard of the AFP snigger dogs trained to identify technology, such as USB devices and lap tops: If she is a murderer as police say, and not just an accused murderer, then with the benefit of hindsight she may have instead put the hard drives in a blender or chucked them into the river somewhere….or as you suggested, utilised a drill and / or a handsaw to damage them significantly.

Maybe she’s a hoarder and likes to keep her data, and it may have been painful for her to get rid of it. A lot of people are like that, they like to hold onto things that are special to them.

Imo

I’m keeping in mind that Erin is entitled to the presumption of innocence on all charges.

Was thinking it was a phone that was missing - a second one used for web searches, and following news and websleuths. Quickly chucked in the bushes when the LE arrived.

 

[mussopossum]

Escalating behaviour. imo

"I'll try a little bit, see if he gets sick. I'll try a bit more, see if he gets sicker. Hmm, well nobody seemed to notice that I put toxin in his meal/drink. Maybe I can go the whole hog now."

I thought so too however many searches online say that even the smallest amount of this mushroom is lethal. I guess there might be evidence of searches online of how much is needed to create an ill or fatal effect on her devices IMO On another note, how is this particular poison detected?

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Escalating behaviour. imo
Maybe working up the courage to commit the final act and think she could get away with it.

"I'll try a little bit, see if he gets sick. I'll try a bit more, see if he gets sicker. Hmm, well nobody seemed to notice that I put toxin in his meal/drink. Maybe I can go the whole hog now."

Perhaps trying for small amounts that would be hard to detect, less easy to diagnose. Which was working ….

 

[mussopossum]

What are the effects of eating a death cap mushroom?​

Once a death cap is eaten, people are often asymptomatic for several hours before its effects become apparent. Nausea, diarrhea and other symptoms of gastrointestinal upset develop from about six to 12 hours after ingestion, though this may occur sooner if a high dose is ingested, Taylor says.

Within one to seven days of ingestion, the death cap can result in liver failure, kidney failure, encephalopathy, and death.

Why did one survive and the rest did not? Did he not eat as much? Did he only eat the sauce and meat and not the mushrooms (so only ingested the tiniest amount through perhaps the sauce?

Death cap mushrooms: why are they so toxic and how can poisoning be treated?

Eating even a very small amount of the mushrooms at the centre of the suspected poisoning in Victoria can be fatal, and treatment is often only effective if administered very quickly

www.theguardian.com

 

[mussopossum]

Perhaps trying for small amounts that would be hard to detect, less easy to diagnose. Which was working ….

I wonder if she experimented on anybody else previously?

 

[Ellery84]

Perhaps trying for small amounts that would be hard to detect, less easy to diagnose. Which was working ….

It will be interesting to learn from the Crown what they believe to be the alleged method of the 3 attempted murder charges to be, the ones that pertain to the ex partner Simon, previous to the 4th attempted murder charge which matched up to the date of the Beef Wellington lunch event.

Moo

 

[Ellery84]

I wonder if she experimented on anybody else previously?

Like whom?

I just keep thinking of her children and am so relieved they didn’t get sick and they’re ok.

Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

Perhaps trying for small amounts that would be hard to detect, less easy to diagnose. Which was working ….

Yes, maybe EP had read (as we have) that "one DC mushroom" can kill you. Only it didn't. So she tried more and more with each attempt.

She surely must have had the knowledge that the toxin goes away quickly in the body's system, but its ill effects are already coursing through the body.

She also must have known that DC mushrooms do not have any distinctive taste.

imo