Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #6 *Arrest*

[JLZ]

i read an interesting article about female serial killers (over 3 deaths) mostly they use poison and the motive is usually always about money, not suggesting ep is guilty or a serial killer

Female Serial Killers Do Exist And Are Known As 'Quiet' Killers

We may hear more about male serial killers, like Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy, but female serial killers do exist. They just murder for different reasons.

www.discovermagazine.com

Erin, if guilty, isn't a serial killer though--the deaths are all from a single episode.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

If she knows as much about mushrooms and foraging as has been claimed, it would be no surprise if she was quite comfortable using a single dehydrator for both death caps and any other mushrooms or foodstuffs she wanted to dehydrate.

If you mean she had two dehydrators as part of some cunning plan to get away with murder, it is possible, but I believe that she was allegedly so sure of evading detection after her previous alleged attempts on Simon’s life that she took few precautions beyond disposal of evidence.

On another note - I don’t think that the alleged attempts in previous years on Simon’s life were only intended to sicken him. To charge her with attempted murder the police must prove she formed and acted upon an intent to kill. There are other lesser offenses for using poison with less than lethal intent.

Also charging her for the previous attempts allows this “prior” behavior to be openly examined/cross examined in court even if there is little forensic evidence. (And not excluded because it’s prejudicial)

 

[Baby baby Jane]

She doesn't 'want' for money - but I'll bet she doesn't want to have to carve up what she's got in order to give him half her wealth. I guess she had plans to live a fairly luxurious lifestyle or maybe invest in more property and develop it.

She might have overspent on her new build, or on buying property & related expenses or just still angry about SP not loading the dishwasher.

 

[arrogantcat]

True, but it would still take a long process to get the death caps ready.

I think she did possibly make a mushroom gravy/sauce. But if he did cancel last minute, she did probably already have the mushrooms simmering. JMO

I’m no expert (my only experience with mushrooms is recreational) but I’m not sure this is true. Dehydrated and ground, they’d make a dry powder that could be sprinkled into anything at any stage of the cooking, really. Could be prepared in advance and stored for a long time. We’re all assuming it *was* delivered via the beef wellington as we know it was served, contained mushrooms and of course the press ran with that, but I’m not sure it’s ever been officially confirmed by law enforcement. Anything served at that meal could be suspect, theoretically - even a drink, like tea.

I guess without more information on her history with the deceased (how they got along, any grudges etc) it is hard to gain a motive. The recent/current search of the property for electronic devices - I wonder if this is just a tip-off from someone who knows her that she owned more devices (which had not been seen previously) or that Simon has filled in a few more details that did not add up. I do find it odd though that if she had attempted several times with Simon in the past through an ingestable poison - How did she fail all of these times? That is if it was Dc mushrooms with him as well?

There’s an article linked in an earlier thread where a “friend” is Simon is quoted as saying the earlier poisoning were believed to be linked to nightshade vegetables. I’m not sure how this could be known, though. Presumably if that had been identified by the hospital there would have been legal proceedings undertaken at the time.

 

[JLZ]

<modsnip - quoted post was off topic>
I think I'd be slightly surprised if Simon, based on the little I know of him, claimed a share of Erin's inheritance. Not everybody's greedy in a divorce.

 

[Amalgam]

Body weight might be a factor in why she didn't become fatally Ill as the others did.
She may have needed double the dose compared to the others.

Amatoxin is more a water soluble poison than a lipid(fat) soluble poison. Her extra weight is mostly fat (no delicate way to say it) so it isn’t relevant.

Furthermore the time between the deadly meal and the victims presentation at the hospital indicates that the dose of poison ingested was very high.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wouldn't say that EP looks unkempt in any of the photos we've seen so far.

She's not all done up as a fashion plate.
Maybe she just likes to dress in a casual easy going way.

Not wearing much makeup does not make a person unkempt. Or mean that they don't care how they look or that they don't look after themselves.

I think not wearing much makeup likely means you are happy looking your natural self.

Re in court. I wonder if she had access to a comb or anything else.
I know I would be lost without my moisturiser. If I was going out I'd need my conditioner spray to smooth my hair and cover stick for freckles on my nose. I could get by with finger combing.

 

[bearbear]

Erin, if guilty, isn't a serial killer though--the deaths are all from a single episode.

sorry no i realize she isnt, was trying to find info on women who kill multiple people and the reasons behind it etc and came across this article

 

[Shadow@light]

i read an interesting article about female serial killers (over 3 deaths) mostly they use poison and the motive is usually always about money, not suggesting ep is guilty or a serial killer

Female Serial Killers Do Exist And Are Known As 'Quiet' Killers

We may hear more about male serial killers, like Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy, but female serial killers do exist. They just murder for different reasons.

www.discovermagazine.com

I had a quick glance bearbear
(Had to glance, the Tween was around, he just shouted out to my Understanding Partner, "Mum looking up about People who do Poisoning Dad.")
I noticed, Marquise de Brinvilliers, Marie- Madeleine d"Aubray, (1630-1676) was not on the list, her I ,IMO seems to fit the current situation, A small, dainty softly spoken, high born French woman, who is believe after her trial , supplied food/aid at Hotel Dieu (Hospital in Paris) where her kindness was highly praised, in reality she was testing out poisons on the Patients, believed over thirty Patients died number could be more,(I read about the case years ago, they say mainly 30 they know of, because the patients had recovered ready to go home they relapsed after the Marquise de Brinvilliers treats of cake and jelly. Next came her servants ill or died, before she went on to poison her Father and Two Brothers.
EP Husband health problems IMO it never crossed his mind, that Erin was behind it, why there was no warning giving to his family before the fatal lunch. He could just had a bad gut feeling acted on it hence no warning was given to his family.
Erin does not look or act like a threat. Which it reminds me of the Marquise de Brinvilliers people were stunned when she was arrested. IMO
Again you are correct bearbear, the Marquise de Brinvillers did her crimes for money
Which gives me thought, that over the years people over the years if they crossed Erin, did they come down with a spot of tummy troubles, After the trial I wander if this information comes up.

 

[SouthAussie]

I was reading a HS article about what is known about EP.

The 3rd thing mentioned is that she took over editing the local newsletter in 2018. It mentions the September-November 2019 newsletter which was advertising a mushroom growing workshop. (Poorly edited because the date and time are not accurate for the workshop, missing are the day and start time, not to mention all the spacing errors throughout the newsletter).
The HS article states it is not suggesting that this is linked to the poisonings.

I looked up the publicly available past issues of the Burra Flyer ....

Burra Flyer — Korumburra Community Website (look up the Spring 2019 edition, pg 43)


This is the relevant HS article .... Five things we know about alleged mushroom cook ‘secretive’ Erin Patterson

 

[Ellery84]

Erin, if guilty, isn't a serial killer though--the deaths are all from a single episode.

Time will tell.

But she also may be completely innocent. Maybe the deaths were an accident.

 

[mussopossum]

I am curious to see what others think about this video interview with Erin.

How do you find her body language? I believe this interview may have been from a while back, it seems to be popping up in other recent reports again.

Aussie mushroom death fallout: Friend of alleged killer chef's ex speaks out

'My family were asked to come and say goodbye to me twice, as I was not expected to live.'

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[al66pine]

When Two Die Close in Time.

I think I heard once in an Agatha Christie, maybe? that inheritance laws having that delay came in when air travel did, because if a couple died in a crash, there was no way of telling who predeceased whom. But I'm not sure if that's true or just good storytelling. Surely an accident at sea would lead to similar ambiguity, and people have been traveling by boat forever. MOO

@iamshadow21 When it comes to story telling, Agatha Christie was a champ. Loved reading --- the characters, the settings, all the plot twists.

If your "inheritance laws" remark refers to "Simultaneous Death" statutes, they were not enacted as a result of air travel. The deaths of two people (often husband & wife, or others who would inherit from one another) dying close in time to each other could result in probate problems waaay before air travel. Could happen w accidents at sea (as you mentioned), horse & buggy crashes, motor vehicle collisions, contagious diseases, natural disasters, and other multiple fatalities when evidence could not establish order of deaths.

SimuDeath statutes generally have been drafted & enacted to PREVENT problems in determining inheritance and ideally to prevent delays.

_________________________________
State statutes in U.S. Plain language description. (sorry for not ref'ing law in VIC.)

Uniform Simultaneous Death Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jjleroche]

I had a quick glance bearbear
(Had to glance, the Tween was around, he just shouted out to my Understanding Partner, "Mum looking up about People who do Poisoning Dad.")
I noticed, Marquise de Brinvilliers, Marie- Madeleine d"Aubray, (1630-1676) was not on the list, her I ,IMO seems to fit the current situation, A small, dainty softly spoken, high born French woman, who is believe after her trial , supplied food/aid at Hotel Dieu (Hospital in Paris) where her kindness was highly praised, in reality she was testing out poisons on the Patients, believed over thirty Patients died number could be more,(I read about the case years ago, they say mainly 30 they know of, because the patients had recovered ready to go home they relapsed after the Marquise de Brinvilliers treats of cake and jelly. Next came her servants ill or died, before she went on to poison her Father and Two Brothers.
EP Husband health problems IMO it never crossed his mind, that Erin was behind it, why there was no warning giving to his family before the fatal lunch. He could just had a bad gut feeling acted on it hence no warning was given to his family.
Erin does not look or act like a threat. Which it reminds me of the Marquise de Brinvilliers people were stunned when she was arrested. IMO
Again you are correct bearbear, the Marquise de Brinvillers did her crimes for money
Which gives me thought, that over the years people over the years if they crossed Erin, did they come down with a spot of tummy troubles, After the trial I wander if this information comes up.

I like your tween's sense of humour

 

[iamshadow21]

Time will tell.

But she also may be completely innocent. Maybe the deaths were an accident.

A person convicted of committing all offenses charged would still be considered a serial poisoner, though. It's not incorrect to look at other cases where deaths resulted more often. There will be commonalities. The actions of the accused will be similar, especially if the death of the victims was the goal.

MOO

 

[JLZ]

A person convicted of committing all offenses charged would still be considered a serial poisoner, though. It's not incorrect to look at other cases where deaths resulted more often. There will be commonalities. The actions of the accused will be similar, especially if the death of the victims was the goal.

MOO

We were talking about the psychology of the offender. I think it might be different psychologically, or at least it can't be presumed to be the same, for someone to attempt and fail to kill someone and then continue trying, compared to someone who successfully kills one person and then moves on to another murder goal.

 

[Charlot123]

I am curious to see what others think about this video interview with Erin.

How do you find her body language? I believe this interview may have been from a while back, it seems to be popping up in other recent reports again.

Aussie mushroom death fallout: Friend of alleged killer chef's ex speaks out

'My family were asked to come and say goodbye to me twice, as I was not expected to live.'

www.nzherald.co.nz

We can't put names on it, so I can only tell you who I suddenly thought of watching it.
There once was a caregiver to an old man who died. It was natural, but the behavior everyone observed in the lady after his death was "feigned hysterics". (Merely prompted by the trivial hope for a reward.)

 

[Kemug]

Maybe she stored the devices away in a shed in a box of books or something, and figured her story about the Asian grocery store purchased mushrooms would be enough to provide reasonable doubt, and for the police to stay off her tail, indefinitely. IMO

It’s possible she had never heard of the AFP snigger dogs trained to identify technology, such as USB devices and lap tops: If she is a murderer as police say, and not just an accused murderer, then with the benefit of hindsight she may have instead put the hard drives in a blender or chucked them into the river somewhere….or as you suggested, utilised a drill and / or a handsaw to damage them significantly.

Maybe she’s a hoarder and likes to keep her data, and it may have been painful for her to get rid of it. A lot of people are like that, they like to hold onto things that are special to them.

Imo

I’m keeping in mind that Erin is entitled to the presumption of innocence on all charges.

Gotta love those "snigger dogs"! Can't you just picture them whispering behind their paws "Hey Brutus, get a load of that guy, can you believe that shirt he's wearing?" (snigger, snigger)

 

[al66pine]

EP Ordering Mushrooms Online???

I’m wondering if she ordered them online. IMO
BBM.

@Ellery84
Yes, it's possible EP ordered FRESH mushrooms online, but---

1. Unlikely imo jmo moo that EP ordered Death Cap mushrooms online, unless (hypo) dodgy online vendor explicitly offered DC mushrooms. If EP did, seems rather damning to def. case. If so, not likely that def. would offer evd of this at trial.

2. If EP made online order to a legit. produce online vendor, for edible mushrooms, say, portabellos, enoki's. etc, then seems she would have noticed that the mushrooms she received did not resemble the ones she ordered, and she would have ---
A. E-mailed/DM'ed vendor that product received did not match product ordered. would have left exculpatory digital evd. that def. could offer at trial.
A. Yeeted them into the bin (I've been waiting to say "yeeted" somewhere, sometime on WS ). Unlikley to be evd. in def. case at trial, unless EP testifies. A bit lame?
B. Have emailed/DM'ed vendor that product received did not match product ordered. Would have left exculpatory digital evd. that def. could offer at trial.
C. Both A & B. IDK.

If EP ordered DRIED mushrooms online, based on what another member here posted, vendor may have sent product that looks like powder. Difficult to distinguish one species of mushrooms from another. IDK.

Nevertheless, online order, an interesting possibility. TYVM for idea.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

New mystery as mushroom cook's ex-husband vanishes

Simon Patterson, the ex-husband of Erin Patterson accused of killing three people with a deadly mushroom meal, hasn't been home since she was charged with making four attempts on his life.

www.dailymail.co.uk