Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023

[TootsieFootsie]

The phrase pot pie isn't something used in Australia.

We do say pies.
But I've never heard Beef Wellington called a pie ever.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Have we ever had a case of deliberate mushroom poisoning in the US?

Just a quick couple of minutes search and I found this.

Indiana Woman Sentenced In Conspiracy To Kill Husband With Poisonous Mushrooms | Oxygen Official Site

An Indiana woman was sentenced on Wednesday to more than 30 years in prison in connection with the death of her husband.

www.oxygen.com

 

[Friday Fan]

I'm still keeping my mind open to all possibilities.

Me too.
It's such as unusual case. Maybe 150 years ago, this was a more common crime, but you just don't hear about these kind of crimes. Even if it is deliberate, actually proving it to get an arrest and a conviction is going to take alot of work. Hence the tabloids are filling the void.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Does anyone know how / why it's deadly mushrooms that have been fixated on in this case as opposed to some other form of poisoning or toxin?

I appreciate that 'the internet says' the deaths are in line with this particular mushroom but how was that suspicion arrived at so quickly? Would it not be the case that any type of severe deadly poison would result in chronic gastric issues and the liver failing?

 

[Friday Fan]

It’s not a pie to me in London. Wellington is totally different. It’s basically usually a single filet of beef (not a cheap cut in itself), lightly browned off, then encased mostly in mushroom or meat pate and covered in a single piece of shortcrust pastry tucked in at the ends. Some people wrap Parma ham or even pancake around it before putting the pastry on.

Notoriously tricky because aside from the prep time it’s hard to get the cook on the meat right and until you serve it you can‘t tell for sure if it is right. Also needs resting, to avoid getting blood if you like it rare.

IMO it’s a faffy thing to make and I think I only made it once. It’s the kind of thing you can buy to order online for special occasions and in the UK at Christmas you‘re looking at approx £50.

Mention all this because it’s not like rustling up a bowl of chilli and the host then just eats a few nachos and guacamole. I see it as a meal which takes time and some skill, for the table to enjoy - and coincidentally normally uses mushrooms…

I've never had it. It's in my Betty Crocker cookbook. It's one of those dishes that you want to make, but it's a bunch of work. (I'm not much of a cook)

Very expensive at restaurants. So, I will probably leave this planet, never having consumed beef wellington. (I get hungry thinking about it, but then all of a sudden because of this, I don't)

 

[MsMarple]

The phrase pot pie isn't something used in Australia.

We do say pies.
But I've never heard Beef Wellington called a pie ever.

Yes, I was surprised to see so many recipes called Beef Wellington Pot Pie when I searched. We use the term “pot pie” here in the U.S., maybe similar to your meat pies, but I would call those recipes plain old beef pot pies. It seems unnecessary to try to turn a rustic home style dish into something pretentious.

But anyway msm said “pie” not “pot pie” in the article. I was just pointing out that some recipe descriptions add the extra word which could cause some confusion.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Does anyone know how / why it's deadly mushrooms that have been fixated on in this case as opposed to some other form of poisoning or toxin?

I think maybe one or more of the affected party were asked what they had eaten. That's when they first presented to hospital.

As far as I know, no articles have said that any of the four were taken to hospital.

It has been said that they presented at hospital so I'm presuming that they were able to communicate, and when asked what they'd eaten, thats when the mushrooms were mentioned.

 

[Inthedetails]

I've accidentally removed my post, lack of sleep.
yI tried to copy it back from your quoting but it didn't work.

I always thought that mushrooms would end up "mushy" if you froze them dis
alI'm too tired to type it back in

I use frozen mushrooms regularly. No, they are not the same as fresh mushrooms in consistency but they are delicious in a sauce, soup, etc.

I also loooove to use powered mushroom. I buy it powered but I assume you could make your own by first dehydrating them. Oh my goodness, the powder is a great thickener and it is delicious either in sauces, soups, or as a glaze or coating. It's a secret ingredient of mine so don't tell anyone, (but I use safe ingredients, so no worries).

If one were to poison a meal, using the powder in a sauce seems like the way to disguise what mushroom it is. Throwing away the dehydration seems sus to me. imo

jmo

 

[SMK777]

Unless they went somewhere after the meal.

As it was said to be a discussion about the marriage, it just came to me that possibly the four of them went somewhere together after the meal for the four of them to talk over their impressions on whether Erin was "good enough" or not.

They may have had a cup of tea or coffee after while they talked and perhaps a biscuit or two.

1. Perhaps, but they would have informed the hospital professionals when they first arrived. I’m sure they were asked, and I’m sure there was good reason for law enforcement to focus on the mushrooms.

2. Also: How likely are you to get deathly ill from tea, coffee and biscuits?

3. Are there other customers from the coffee shop who showed up in hospitals?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think maybe one or more of the affected party were asked what they had eaten. That's when they first presented to hospital.

As far as I know, no articles have said that any of the four were taken to hospital.

It has been said that they presented at hospital so I'm presuming that they were able to communicate, and when asked what they'd eaten, thats when the mushrooms were mentioned.

I assume they ate and drank a whole load of other things that could have equally been poisoned?

I appreciate some mushrooms can be poisonous but so can anything that's had poison added to it.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

1. Perhaps, but they would have informed the hospital professionals when they first arrived. I’m sure they were asked, and I’m sure there was good reason for law enforcement to focus on the mushrooms.

2. Also: How likely are you to get deathly ill from tea, coffee and biscuits?

3. Are there other customers from the coffee shop who showed up in hospitals?

If someone deliberately set out to poison this group, anywhere they went, anything they touched or consumed is suspect IMO until there's clear facts and evidence.

One would need to consider if it's accidental or deliberate. If it's accidental then E cooking dinner with the wrong type of foraged mushroom could be very believable.

However, if it's deliberate targeted poisoning then one would need to know every single thing they ate and drank together or in common no matter where it was or whose house it was at. E serving up poison mushrooms becomes less believable and rather fantastical IMO.

The living survivor is the biggest clue to finding out the truth.

 

[ch_13]

I assume they ate and drank a whole load of other things that could have equally been poisoned?

I appreciate some mushrooms can be poisonous but so can anything that's had poison added to it.

Different poisons have different effects. Some cause the heart to stop, others attack the respiratory system, and so on.

The four victims in this case all had liver and kidney failure. The investigation has focused on mushroom ingestion because the poison in death caps is known to cause those symptoms.

 

[RickshawFan]

If the dehydrator was used to dry out poisonous mushrooms so they could be used in to kill, then getting rid of the equipment is tampering with evidence and that's a crime. (At least it would be in the U.S. and I presume under Australian law as well.) It's not really any different than someone getting rid of a firearm after a shooting.


Dehydrators remove nearly all the moisture from foods. You can use them to make dried fruit or beef jerky or many other food items.

If you just set mushrooms out on the counter they're likely to spoil before they lose sufficient moisture to powder-ize them.

I'm not sure a dehydrator would be usable if you'd dehydrated poisonous mushrooms in it. It could contaminate your next batch of apricots.

 

[ch_13]

I'm not sure a dehydrator would be usable if you'd dehydrated poisonous mushrooms in it. It could contaminate your next batch of apricots.

Maybe Erin's attorney can use that in her defense: "Ms. Patterson wasn't trying to hide evidence, she was just trying to observe food safety guidelines and prevent cross-contamination."

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Different poisons have different effects. Some cause the heart to stop, others attack the respiratory system, and so on.

The four victims in this case all had liver and kidney failure. The investigation has focused on mushroom ingestion because the poison in death caps is known to cause those symptoms.

I agree but at the same time, I would speculate that thousands of poisons would cause liver and kidney failure and if the poisoning was intentional and targeted it could have just as easily been put in a chocolate biscuit or a cup of coffee.

The ex husband has mentioned a different poison from a plant. I don't know how that particular one he said works but assume that if someone knows all about poisons, anything they serve up could be the culprit.

Also, what if E was set up to look like she was the poisoner when in fact it was someone else?

Does anyone know, has there been any evidence of the dehydrator being taken to the dump or is that a non verified story thus far?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Maybe Erin's attorney can use that in her defense: "Ms. Patterson wasn't trying to hide evidence, she was just trying to observe food safety guidelines and prevent cross-contamination."

Maybe she was!? Realised she's used a batch of dodgy and highly deadly foraged mushrooms, killed half her pals, ensures children are removed to a place of safety, cleans kitchen, and takes any items that have had contact with mushrooms to the dump.

Still doesn't make her guilty. Except I imagine the police would have wanted her to hand it over as opposed to dump it?

 

[Jess M.]

Indeed they have but she's a very obvious suspect - the only living and unharmed adult who was in the home at the time.

I wonder if they're going to be able to back up that idea with any evidence and have

Does anyone know how / why it's deadly mushrooms that have been fixated on in this case as opposed to some other form of poisoning or toxin?

I appreciate that 'the internet says' the deaths are in line with this particular mushroom but how was that suspicion arrived at so quickly? Would it not be the case that any type of severe deadly poison would result in chronic gastric issues and the liver failing?

sufficient grounds to charge her. I suspect not because my argument is that nobody can be sure where those people went before and after the meal and whether someone else poisoned them in a different manner than the very obvious one.

Even if she did this, I don't think they could get a conviction unless there's some proof / evidence over and above that 'they were poisoned'.

The police are obviously doing a thorough investigation. I have faith in them.

 

[SMK777]

If someone deliberately set out to poison this group, anywhere they went, anything they touched or consumed is suspect IMO until there's clear facts and evidence.

One would need to consider if it's accidental or deliberate. If it's accidental then E cooking dinner with the wrong type of foraged mushroom could be very believable.

However, if it's deliberate targeted poisoning then one would need to know every single thing they ate and drank together or in common no matter where it was or whose house it was at. E serving up poison mushrooms becomes less believable and rather fantastical IMO.

The living survivor is the biggest clue to finding out the truth.

Why do you suppose that law enforcement named her as a POI/suspect, confiscated her phones and devices, and removed her children from the home, if there could be dozens and dozens of alternative sources for the poisoning? Have there been many local people admitted to hospitals for poisoning? Why just these 4?

Imagine if you cooked dinner for some friends, and they later died after admitting themselves to a hospital. In your case, there might well be focus on something they ingested later. But that hasn’t been the case here. Why?

Also, I’ve read articles over the years such as, “dozens of people are seeking help at emergency rooms with e-coli poisoning after eating at X restaurant in Y state”. Why do these reports zero in on the last meal ingested, and not the many drinks, snacks, and other foods these people ate separately the rest of the day?

 

[charminglane]

Maybe Erin's attorney can use that in her defense: "Ms. Patterson wasn't trying to hide evidence, she was just trying to observe food safety guidelines and prevent cross-contamination."

"She could not wash the dehydrator plates because the dishwasher was full of pufferfish she was poaching for her guests the next day."

 

[Jess M.]

Does anyone know how / why it's deadly mushrooms that have been fixated on in this case as opposed to some other form of poisoning or toxin?

I appreciate that 'the internet says' the deaths are in line with this particular mushroom but how was that suspicion arrived at so quickly? Would it not be the case that any type of severe deadly poison would result in chronic gastric issues and the liver failing?

It's not the internet that says it, it was 'trained' doctors at the hospital who said that their symptoms were in line with death cap mushrooms and they had all ingested mushrooms at lunch. What a surprise...