Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I also wonder what made the husband suspect nightshade poisoning specifically?

Nightshades contain solanines, which in high doses cause gastrointestinal symptoms as well as slow pulse, headaches, and fever. Now, if I experienced those symptoms, my first thought wouldn’t be nightshades. But if for some reason I suspected that I’d been poisoned, my first thought (until now) would be prescription medication or elicit drugs - not a poisonous plant. Therefore, SP’s mind jumping straight to nightshade poisoning suggests to me that perhaps EP has a known interest in or knowledge of plant poisons…?

In case E is innocent, surely husband should hush his mouth a little bit and stick only disclosing what he knows to detectives?

These people have children together and as yet we have zero facts.

Yes she's a suspect, surely any of us would be suspect in the same circumstance?

 

[ch_13]

Why is disposing of a dehydrator a crime? I'm confused.

If the dehydrator was used to dry out poisonous mushrooms so they could be used in to kill, then getting rid of the equipment is tampering with evidence and that's a crime. (At least it would be in the U.S. and I presume under Australian law as well.) It's not really any different than someone getting rid of a firearm after a shooting.

Also I'm not certain what a dehydrator is but am assuming it's a device that one uses to dry things out - foodstuffs ? Like mushrooms ? But why would one not just set them to the side and dry them out they don't take long do they?

Dehydrators remove nearly all the moisture from foods. You can use them to make dried fruit or beef jerky or many other food items.

If you just set mushrooms out on the counter they're likely to spoil before they lose sufficient moisture to powder-ize them.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Unless they went somewhere after the meal.

As it was said to be a discussion about the marriage, it just came to me that possibly the four of them went somewhere together after the meal for the four of them to talk over their impressions on whether Erin was "good enough" or not.

I assume they may have all gone to discuss this meeting with the man in question - the ex husband?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

If she deliberately poisoned them, I would think she would want to get rid of anything in the kitchen that might be tainted, not just because it's evidence but because she wouldn't want to accidentally poison herself or children with contaminated items in the kitchen.

I think it's possible that she may have disposed of the dehydrator if she realised she'd made a terrible mistake and misidentified the mushrooms that she had picked and dried.
And if it was not deliberate.

It might not even be mushrooms, but she might have thought it was the mushrooms.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I assume they may have all gone to discuss this meeting with the man in question - the ex husband?

Yes you're right. That would seem to be the next step.

I wonder where they went after that meal ?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

DBM

 

[Inthedetails]

What I don't get is that if the mushrooms weren't fresh, how long since they were fresh.
When were they picked, how long ago. I've read that it's not the season for them.

I would think that they would be needed to be dried fairly quickly after picking and then stored somewhere.

I don't know but I don't think people store their dried foods in the actual dehydrator. I mean what if you want to use it for something else.

And wouldn't you clean the dehydrator in between uses.

Mushrooms freeze well.

fwiw.

jmo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think it's possible that she may have disposed of the dehydrator if she realised she'd made a terrible mistake and misidentified the mushrooms that she had picked and dried.
And if it was not deliberate.

It might not even be mushrooms, but she might have thought it was the mushrooms.

If she'd foraged and picked mushrooms and made a terrible mistake, wouldn't that have involved her using them freshly picked and cooked as opposed to dried out?

I'm no chef but I would have thought the whole point of foraging for wild mushrooms is to enjoy their amazing fresh taste.

Also, if at any point, E is innocent but panicked that she may have caused this harm, running off to dump a dehydrator and failing to fess up would be the worst possible things to do - only someone deeply criminally minded would do that per se. The rest of us would be going out of our minds with grief and guilt and trying to help the medics by showing them exactly where we picked the mushrooms.

Is it a crime to accidentally poison people? I don't think so but I am also not a lawyer.

 

[AliceInPain]

And you think that they would have then eaten even more food, after a big lunch of Beef Wellington? Seems very unlikely IMO.

I would have for sure eaten more food if I liked it and the person who cooked it did too!
But...

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Mushrooms freeze well.

fwiw.

jmo

I've accidentally removed my post, lack of sleep.

I tried to copy it back from your quoting but it didn't work.

I always thought that mushrooms would end up "mushy" if you froze them

I'm too tired to type it back in

 

[TootsieFootsie]

If she'd foraged and picked mushrooms and made a terrible mistake, wouldn't that have involved her using them freshly picked and cooked as opposed to dried out?

I think it could work either way. She could have picked them and thought they were ok ones and dried them.
Drying them wouldn't remove the toxin.

Maybe she was into cooking using dried veges and fruits.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Is it a crime to accidentally poison people? I don't think so but I am also not a lawyer.

I think these days, nothing is thought of as an accident.

I don't mean that it's thought that everything is deliberate but it's like there has to be someone at fault for everything that happens, and they have to be made to pay for it.

There has to be some kind of punishment.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm no chef but I would have thought the whole point of foraging for wild mushrooms is to enjoy their amazing fresh taste.

A lot of people use them in things like Stir Fry and other dishes.

 

[FrankieFalzon]

Recognizing mushrooms is the kind of life-saving - potentially literally - knowledge that one's grandpa can instill in one's memory.

On the left - the famous, delicious kania/parasol, the tastiest mushroom, better than a fried cutlet, with potatoes, butter and dill.

On the right, perhaps the world's deadliest mushroom, common, fast-acting and lethal without immediate medical intervention (and often with it, too).



I can easily tell them apart, and it is most useful.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Mushrooms freeze well.

fwiw.

jmo

Do they!? I thought mushrooms go all weird and slimy

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Do they!? I thought mushrooms go all weird and slimy

So did I.

I can't remember if I tried to freeze some or read that they don't take well to it, or not.

Googling tells me you can freeze them, but you need to part cook them first.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I can easily tell them apart, and it is most useful.

I can't tell them from butter.
Just kidding

 

[AliceInPain]

Mushrooms freeze well.

fwiw.

jmo

Thanks for the advice =)

 

[Friday Fan]

If the dehydrator was used to dry out poisonous mushrooms so they could be used in to kill, then getting rid of the equipment is tampering with evidence and that's a crime. (At least it would be in the U.S. and I presume under Australian law as well.) It's not really any different than someone getting rid of a firearm after a shooting.


Dehydrators remove nearly all the moisture from foods. You can use them to make dried fruit or beef jerky or many other food items.

If you just set mushrooms out on the counter they're likely to spoil before they lose sufficient moisture to powder-ize them.

Have we ever had a case of deliberate mushroom poisoning in the US?

I remember the cult in Oregon who poisoned a salad bar with salmonella. I think that would be the closest thing. However, they ordered the salmonella from a medical supply, so there was a trail.

1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course, we've had murder cases with arsenic, anti-freeze etc, but those are chemical products which are not supposed to be ingested.

Food poisoning as with mushroom poisoning is hard to prove if it is intentional. Almost all cases of bacterial food poisoning in the US are accidental. Even in cases where the poisoning occurs because of poor cleaning at food preparation facilities, it usually becomes a civil case, not a criminal.

 

[MsMarple]

For anyone still confused over the references to both Beef Wellington and Beef Wellington “pie” IMO msm just isn’t sure which was served at the luncheon.

The article posted up thread said:

The Guardian has reported the dish to be a beef wellington pie.

The preparation of the meal consists usually of a beef tenderloin coated in layers of pâté, finely chopped mushroom, ham and then wrapped with puff pastry.

It is then baked in the oven until the pastry is golden brown and the meat in the middle turns a blush pink when cut through the centre.

Any type of mushrooms can be used from cremini, to button, shiitake, oyster, and some recipes even mention wild varieties of the vegetable.

A beef wellington pie may be a deconstructed version of the dish.

Revealed: Suspected poisonous dish family ate at deadly lunch

The dish believed to be at the centre of the suspected poisoning which left three people dead and a fourth fighting for life in hospital has been revealed.

www.skynews.com.au

A quick Google search on “Beef Wellington Pie” brings up recipes called Beef Wellington Pot Pie and also Beef Wellington Pie.

So one question is whether the woman prepared/bought a true Wellington, which IMO would be a rather heavy dish for lunch, or a smaller version made more like a pot pie. Still heavy but more likely containing chunks of meat rather than a steak.

If the guests were served individual pies/pot pies it would be interesting to know how many came out of the oven. IOW did she make one for herself then not eat it or did she make a different item for herself?