Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #11

[wakeskate]

The sleepover was clarified as being the Thursday night.

It was in a report on either 11th, 12th or 13th May.

Very subtle

 

[kiwi50]

Personally if I had 3 children I'd find it far easier for my husband to get the children ready for school in the morning, than organise all it would involve sending 3 children elsewhere for the night, specially when the school is so close, and my husband didn't have a job that required him to leave home early in the mornings.
I would have been embarrassed to ask someone to have 3 children on a school night, unless it was an emergency, even if it was grandparents.

 

[minni]

alright for just a moment, lets assume the sleepover was thursday night.
why is this important?
does it point to premeditation?
does it allude to an opportunistic murder?
what exactly is the hype?
I ask because my head is too confused to think clearly about the sleepover relevance anymore, I don't even know my stance on it

 

[Moggill2]

The sleepover was clarified as being the Thursday night.

It was in a report on either 11th, 12th or 13th May.

Unfortunately, this has been contradicted by a later media report on 15th May:

Courier Mail- 15th May, 2012

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226355251556

"Mrs Baden-Clay's three daughters were due to have a sleepover the night after their mother reportedly went for a walk and didn't return to the family's Brookfield home in Brisbane's west.

The following morning, on April 20, her husband Gerard rang the Dickies and told them their daughter was missing."

So we are back to square one on which day the sleepover happened

 

[mountainhigh]

Of course GBC's sister was nervous and uncertain. I would certainly be in the circumstances....massive media attention outside your home, shock/ grief at missing relative/ confusion about how/ why/ where/ who? Dealing with media is not something everyone is skilled with at the best of times.......but to try and do it in the midst of a serious family crisis......challenging to say the least. The other thing is that GBC's sister may have strongly encouraged GBC to front the media barrage outside their parent's home and so she may have been nervous because of his reluctance and the fact that she had made him do something he didn't want to do. This is all regardless of any guilt/ innocence of people.

True on the sister thing, she may just have a nervous habit of biting lip. I know I have nervous traits. And her being nervous could be as simple as "wholly shi*, this really is happening, my sis in law is missing and we have 20 journo's camped outside our parents home, this doesn't happen to us"

on the brother?, sorry, but....and the oscar goes to.........
:jail:
its not just what he said its what he DIDNT say that gives the game away for me...

 

[minni]

Personally if I had 3 children I'd find it far easier for my husband to get the children ready for school in the morning, than organise all it would involve sending 3 children elsewhere for the night, specially when the school is so close, and my husband didn't have a job that required him to leave home early in the mornings.
I would have been embarrassed to ask someone to have 3 children on a school night, unless it was an emergency, even if it was grandparents.

same, I HATE asking people to watch my kids, especially 3 of them, regardless of who they are, its awkward

 

[wakeskate]

I think this would be the difference between a 'fun' sleepover with friends that you have on weekends, and the kind of sleepover you have when you're parents won't be there to get you ready for school, eg: work early, appointments that don't fit in with school times etc.
My hubby and I had to go somewhere one day and thought we'd be getting home VERY late {long drive} so arranged for the kids to stay at a good friends house.

Yes, but the BC's were at home. Heck she was supposedly off getting her hair done. Who goes "can you look after the kids, I have to go and get my hair done and watch the footy show tonight" ?

You get the kids ready lunches ready for school at night and if anything you drop them off at a friend from school early in the morning.
From all reports Allison was a proud mum. I know my mum wouldn't even consider even asking a relation to mind them let alone a friend and she went to work at 8am every morning, 3 hours after she got up for my dad.

Not saying it didn't happen, but without a formal statement from police (or Gerard or the people minding them) I don't think we can count this as fact.

 

[dansw]

If he has killed Allison after an argument, to then involve your parents takes his weakness to a whole new level.

There is NO excuse ever for murder but then to destroy your parents lives, wow, totally selfish and cowardly.

I actually do believe this latest theory sounds totally plausible and would explain the actions of the police and the differing accounts those first few days.

IMO

sorry about spelling in title should be INSIPID!!

 

[minni]

I
In Australia, we are very restrictive as to what information is released during an investigation, so unfortunately "sleuthing" is very difficult and often based primarily on unsubstantiated information. If someone came in tomorrow and said it was GBC's gay lover that murdered Allison, we would probably dismiss it. But we have absolutely no way of really knowing.
Unfortunately commonsense and logic is not always used; therefore without being privy to the evidence and substantiated information, we will all remain none the wiser.

haha, I threw that one out there early early on, suggesting a possibility of a man in the media/public eye/politician having an affair with GBC, and silencing her so as not to be caught out. Same man being the one to finance all GBC legal bills. I had no one in mind, just a wild theory, suffice it to say, no one had much to say on that one!!!

 

[Bayside]

Here's hoping that arrest won't be too far away otherwise it's going to be a longggg haul....lol

Another case here in Brisbane.... the trial only began a couple of months back. The murders took place back in 2003....the suspect wasn't charged until 2008 (or thereabouts)

I really dont think that will happen this time.

Geez that would be so hard on the kids if it did.

 

[AllyG]

Would it be possible that the ABC and GBC met with Mr Baden-Clay senior for marriage counselling and there was a confrontation that led to ABC death?

I would sincerely hope that NBC wasn't their marriage counsellor. The person counselling should be neutral, ie. not a family member or close friend of either.

 

[Moggill2]

If it happened like that why did Mr Ainsworth say so early in the piece that at that point GBC wasn't a suspect?

Whether GBC is/was a suspect changed several times in the early days. First QPS said he was a POI, then he wasn't, then he was again.....last I've read QPS won't comment on whether he is or isn't (a suspect/POI).

 

[Nads]

With the sleepover business, my guess is the kids were just staying at their grandparents, and my other thought was that GBC also had been living there. So basically MOO they were with their dad. So not exactly a sleepover on a school night concept.

 

[linette]

haha, I threw that one out there early early on, suggesting a possibility of a man in the media/public eye/politician having an affair with GBC, and silencing her so as not to be caught out. Same man being the one to finance all GBC legal bills. I had no one in mind, just a wild theory, suffice it to say, no one had much to say on that one!!!

You never know. I've learnt from hearing/seeing things over the years that sometimes things are really, i mean REALLY weird. The reason people may have kept quiet about your theory might be because he seems to love women so much. But, hey, haven't we all heard of the secret lives people have that not even the most critical person could have imagined?

Since we don't know GBC, I guess we can't discount your theory at all.

 

[marlywings]

Unfortunately, this has been contradicted by a later media report on 15th May:

Courier Mail- 15th May, 2012

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226355251556

"Mrs Baden-Clay's three daughters were due to have a sleepover the night after their mother reportedly went for a walk and didn't return to the family's Brookfield home in Brisbane's west.

The following morning, on April 20, her husband Gerard rang the Dickies and told them their daughter was missing."

So we are back to square one on which day the sleepover happened

In the reports I mentioned...it was a direct interview with Allison's friend Kerry-Anne...she said the girls were at a sleepover on the Thursday night.

It's fine if you don't wish to take her word for it.

But then you'd also have to completely discount any other info that's been posted on this forum by locals who most likely didn't know Allison at all.

Even the hairdresser....I have not seen or read, in any reports, anything about Allison going to a hairdresser....I have however read of members on this forum stating she went to a hairdresser.

I guess it's a case of believe what you want to believe.

 

[Bayside]

same, I HATE asking people to watch my kids, especially 3 of them, regardless of who they are, its awkward

When my daughter has an early start and needs me to drop kids at school I prefer them to stay the night.

I love, love, love having my grandkids stay the night and it is never awkward for my daughter to ask(and yes I say no sometimes if I already have plans).

 

[mountainhigh]

His lawyer may have advised him to stay away, especially as the lawyer would have known that he would be considered the prime suspect. He may also have not wanted all of the attention of people at the Command Point even if he is innocent. Believe it or not some people prefer to be alone when they are under stress or in grief.

In regards to going back to work in the middle of the crisis: if he wasn't allowed to help at the search because he could have interfered with it as a potential suspect, he may have felt that he couldn't do much at the command post and been frustrated by the sitting around waiting. Some people cope with stress by keeping busy doing things that take their mind off what they find painful. The Dickies, I believe are retired and probably have more time on their hands too. (I know that retired people can be very busy but they may have had more flexibility with their time than someone who had three girls to look after, a struggling business, financial problems, staff and clients to deal with.) I asked my husband what he would do if it was me missing and he said that he would be keen to help with the search, but if he wasn't allowed to he would be frustrated sitting around the Command Post. He has a business and we have 4 children and the demands of these things would keep pressing on him in the midst of the crisis and he would, if he couldn't be actively part of the search keep in touch with the Command Post but not sit their all day. He would do what he could to deal with things to do with the children (keep them with their usual activities to minimize their anxiety) and deal with business issues as needed. When you have a business and you are the boss... it doesn't go away...even in times of crisis. Whilst you can delegate and postpone things there are some things that you still do need to attend to especially when a crisis is going on for more than a week.
In our family, I could see our parents helping and perhaps saying we'll sit at the Command Post you go and deal with those urgent things. Having said this, my husband indicated that he would find it hard to concentrate at work in the circumstances and he would definitely be on survival mode....urgent tasks and delegating to others, trouble shooting rather than focused project work. He would probably exhaust himself trying to juggle things knowing my husband and our experiences as a family like having a child in hospital etc. Just for the record....my hubby is definitely NOT a sociopath or a narcissist!

I tend to agree with some of what you have said here Seeking and admittedly find your posts a little reffreshing and healthy on this forum. I do however think that him not being down at the command centre on one single occassion is just so VERRRY odd.
Even just to show support to the people looking for your wife and to your wife's parents and so on and so on.
YOU are the husband for christ sakes...you have a duty to be there. You dont't get to be alone and curl up. get a grip, show some urgency, show some respect, show something!!
As for the lawyer saying don't go down because you are the prime suspect, can't see that either. my knowledge of legal professionals which is vast and varied, I can't accept that. The most a solicitor would have said to him at that stage of her disappearance would have been simply to "avoid the media to a large degree until we meet in a few days"
Engaging a lawyer speaks volumes anyway. What a wan*er.

"get me a second pair of shoes before you get me a lawyer d**k head" is what I would tell anyone who suggested a lawyer to me, "because i have just worn through my first pair looking for my wife. Now come here girls, kiss, kiss, kiss on the head,,, im going to find mummy, see you tomorrow morning.
That s how a real man who has nothing to do with his wife's disappearance would act and I challenge anyone who sees it differently...

 

[Mani]

That would be my guess. You can see a track leading up from the end of that road. That gate appears to be locked, but street view looks like you could drive around it.
There appears to be a few houses on the road, but they aren't much further from Mt Crosby road than Wirrabara road, so someone creeping up there with headlights dimmed could easily be missed. IMO.
Police also had Bunya Street (entrance?) taped off. Again I have never been up there but it's also another point of entry.

Personally I thought they were all peoples properties up there (didn't realise it was a state forest), so if it were me I wouldn't even consider stopping there, which points to someone who knew the area and had been there.
I do know if you continue way out the end of Mt Crosby Road and turn right heading up to Lake Manchester you can get into some really remote areas without having to go through any populated areas. I would guess that would be the destination of someone who didn't know the area as well. (but then I know that area as I have been out to Lake Manchester before)

Based on the area you referred to on the map posted, Wirrabra Road looks like the closest entry point. There was an article earlier on about a resident near where the body was found whose dog was howling on the night Allison disappeared. I thought they lived on Bunya Street. I have just tried unsuccessfully to find the article on it.
I was at an acreage property on the weekend visiting someone that I haven't seen for a couple of years. Their neighbour's dogs could hear us talking at a distance of several hundred metres and started howling, not barking.

 

[wakeskate]

In the reports I mentioned...it was a direct interview with Allison's friend Kerry-Anne...she said the girls were at a sleepover on the Thursday night.

It's fine if you don't wish to take her word for it.

It is open to interpretation.

"That Friday was a busy day for her. She had a full-day conference in town and the kids were having a sleepover that night, so she would have got all her stuff ready," Mrs Walker said.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/grief-for-lost-daughter/story-e6frfkvr-1226346331460#ixzz1vZVeBfsm

 

[Davita]

Yes Kimster...I noted the same:
The continued speculation regarding motive for sleepover is unnecessary considering it has been outlined as per above many times over the last couple of weeks.

Bolded by me - I'm not sure that this speculation is unnecessary. For me, there may be quite a big difference between "sleep over at friends" and "sleep over with GBC's parents". The latter may well have been "arranged" (if indeed any of the actions were premeditated). And if they were staying with their grandparents, perhaps that is why the kids were at the house the next morning.

I dont think the establishment of premeditation is about WHERE they slept over, but WHAT NIGHT the slept over.

If the planned sleepover was planned for the Thursday night and they slept over on that night, then it can easily show premeditation.

I realised early on that if there was no sleepover, it shows NO premeditation. The opportunity was embraced by the KILLER.