Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #11

[minni]

Me either. But if it was because Allison had to prepare for an event the next morning, it may have been more of a babysitting issue than a sleep over.

and more likely than not would have been at a relatives ie grandparents?

 

[possumheart]

Sorry, but nothing pedantic about it, it's the difference between a current strong enough to wash a body downstream and a light shower. I think it's very relevant. I'm going to look later tonight at the rainfall.

Good idea. I was only talking about the moon phase and visibility and quietness, and thinking about tidal movement because I know high tide was late around that phase as I had been holidaying near the water.

 

[linette]

Regarding the sleep over, who lets their three kids all have sleep overs on a school night?
I know I wasn't allowed on school nights.

I think this would be the difference between a 'fun' sleepover with friends that you have on weekends, and the kind of sleepover you have when you're parents won't be there to get you ready for school, eg: work early, appointments that don't fit in with school times etc.
My hubby and I had to go somewhere one day and thought we'd be getting home VERY late {long drive} so arranged for the kids to stay at a good friends house.

 

[Seeking]

One thing is for certain about this case, the media and sites like this have managed to ruin one business (C21 Westside) and two careers (GBC and TM).
I know when I go to sell my house in the area I wont be using any of them (if any of them are still around). Not because of what they may or may not have done, but because of what others will think.

Could that very fact be a motivation for someone to murder Allison?..... create trouble for GBC? If that was a motivation I am sure that there would be a lot more to it than that..........but you never know!

 

[Davita]

how about we stop talking about sleepovers until we hear whether or not there was one and what it has to do with anything at all? I just don't see the point of this constant round and round on it. I mentioned this point this morning that we do not know where the children were whilst their mother was being murdered, we should just leave it be for now maybe.
the only reason it keeps being brought up is because early on a local said that the cops were suspicious when they arrived at GBC's because one of the children disagreed with something GBC said. ITs all hearsay in my opinion

If the children were indeed home that night, it changes everything. Was she murdered at home?

I dont want to get involved in a dispute about what night a sleepover happened, in my opinion, it changes everything.

 

[minni]

damn it Im still on the sleepovers. I dont know if I buy the whole, Allison had to be in town friday morning by 9am, and therefore couldn't have the girls that night. I think th e school is right near their home isnt it? I think many many many parents have to be at work etc each day and manage this for this most part without too much trouble (normally, not always) I also think if she had to 'prepare' for a conference the next day, it is odd that she allegedly told her hairdresser that she 'had a night off' sorry, but none of this really makes sense for me. Its why I don't take much on with the sleepover discussion..what does sound feasible in my opinion is the rumour going around that marriage councelling might have been on a thursday night. I dont think the GBC and TM regular night out would fit either, because I believe if he took thursday nights off regularly, then Allison would be the one to take the girls this night IMO

 

[Toowong(s)]

Just for everyones benefit I discovered this website this Friday just gone, when I became frustrated at the lack of new info from the media. Then I spent the weekend reading from Post 1 up to today. The press reports and other references to sleepovers (IMO) to me seemed conflicting/contradictory/inconclusive. Lately certain posters were being so adamant that the Thurs sleepover had happend I was wondering if I had missed something factual, but it appears not. Some people have interpreted Thurs sleepover as fact and I respect that, but I have not and remain open minded - and it seems I'm not the only one. So for now I intend to park it (Thurs sleepover) as possible but not fact until some fresh and convincing info comes to light.

 

[marlywings]

funny from my perspective GBC's sister didn't really look nervous...she looked normal...delightful....although I believe she suffered from depression....

You forgot to add...she wanted to be normal.

Of all the reports & videos I've read/seen...that comment by the sister has stuck in my mind.

She said "we just want to be normal".

In such a horrible situation...Allison had disappeared.

 

[kiwi50]

Sorry to bring it up again, but I think it's hugely important where the children were on the Thursday night.
I'm still not convinced the children were away "that night." and that is where I find the confusion, it seems the friend said " that night " and the reporter very sloppily just ran with that without clarifying which night she meant. I guess the reporter didn't realise that it could be such an important factor.


The original reason I kept asking was because I thought it may have been something the children said that made the police suspicious.
Even if they were at grandparents house, they may have heard phones or cars in the middle of night.

I've stopped asking about it lately but glad others still see it as unclear.
Please don't shoot me I'll try not to mention it again but it is a very important fact.

 

[minni]

If the children were indeed home that night, it changes everything. Was she murdered at home?

I dont want to get involved in a dispute about what night a sleepover happened, in my opinion, it changes everything.

Yes I agree it would change everything...my point I wanted to make was that WE DON"T KNOW, so right now we are just 'what if' ing. I realise thats the whole point of this forum, and apologised earlier for being short tempered about it. I do strongly believe that where ever they were, if they were traumatised in any way shape or form over something happening to their mother, they would have discussed it, however slightly with someone they could confide it, a grandparent, a teacher or parent of a friend. I feel that because the police haven't ever mentioned the children once, that its not so relevant, to finding pieces of the puzzle. JMO and MO changes every single day with this story

 

[Kimster]

Just for everyones benefit I discovered this website this Friday just gone, when I became frustrated at the lack of new info from the media. Then I spent the weekend reading from Post 1 up to today. The press reports and other references to sleepovers (IMO) to me seemed conflicting/contradictory/inconclusive. Lately certain posters were being so adamant that the Thurs sleepover had happend I was wondering if I had missed something factual, but it appears not. Some people have interpreted Thurs sleepover as fact and I respect that, but I have not and remain open minded - and it seems I'm not the only one. So for now I intend to park it (Thurs sleepover) as possible but not fact until some fresh and convincing info comes to light.

We are in the WS rehashing stage. This happens in all popular cases on Websleuths when the media hasn't released anything new. I predict we'll continue to rehash until an arrest is made. :yes:

 

[possumheart]

Two things that have always puzzled me.
1. There is no way a female would go for a walk at 10pm even in Brookfield.
2. If she was going for a "walk" at 10pm why was she not wearing warmer clothes? It was cold at night even then.
She has left the house but not for a "walk".

At the risk of harping, that was my point last night with the moon phase being the same. I walked around the block at 10pm in grey track pants and two shirts. I did get warm from walking. It was dark! I have one of those cars which is Steele blue/grey which looks different in different light conditions. IMO it looked blue last night when I turned the headlights on and looked at it from a distance from the headlights of another car. Just something I felt I needed to do.

 

[xfiles]

IMO the children wouldn't be taken in for any questioning by police. They may have psychologists that they would use to speak to the children. I think it would work much like it does in the Family Courts. If one of the children ends up seeing a psychologist in the near future or already has then I suspect that this information would be available to police once they have gone through the correct court procedures to obtain the information. I would love to hear from someone on exactly how these things would work. Someone who has had worked in this field ??
If this has already come up please accept my apology. Just got home.

 

[mum73]

In talking to friends etc, I'm fascinated by how many people are saying this is the first time they've ever felt such intrigue relating to a case. For reasons I will not go into here, I have been following crimes and peoples reactions to them for many years; and throughout this time I have found that other "followers" generally have a specific reason for their interest, and despite what many "outsiders" would say, it's usually more than just a morbid curiousity. But with this case, many have said they have no idea as to why they're so drawn.
There are the obvious parallels for many (such as same age, kids, married etc), but let's face it, she's not the first mother to be killed. What I feel is different about this case is the massive and immediate media covereage (especially here in Qld). As soon as I saw the news covering the search, I said to my husband "They'll be looking at the husband for this one". His immediate response was "She could've fallen down a mineshaft on her walk". But then as we watched GBC interviewed, I asked him if he still thought she fell down a mineshaft...needless to say, he did not.
My husband does not normally have the same interest in following crimes that I do, but this time is different. He feels that he has solved the crime by recognising GBC's unusual behaviour and I feel he wants to see it through, so as to prove to himself that his initial instincts were correct. Perhaps this is what many others are doing too.
However, I find it very concerning to see how many people are so upset and pained by the fact they can't "find the missing pieces"; to the point that their everyday lives and behaviours are changing so that they may contribute more time to "solving" this case. These people need to take a step back and realise it may be months before someone is charged...and it may in fact NEVER happen.
To me, logically, it seems very clear as to what has happened...a man reports his wife missing, stating he is unsure whether she has been missing since he last saw her the night before, or if she did not return from her morning walk (and I'll throw in here that "someone" wanted it to appear that she went missing on her walk, hence the reason she was "dressed" in her walking gear). This man says he was asleep at 10pm; has nothing more to add; does not search; lawyers up; and comes across as a total phony. Wife is found deceased days later, presumed murdered, Km's away from home.
Logic tells me he killed her after an argument and then drove to an area he knew well to dispose of her body in a location he thought she'd never be found. Logic also tells me that he did not pick up the phone and start telling people he'd just killed his wife.
If one were to want to get away with murder (...or manslaughter), the common sense thing to do would be to dispose of the body, make up a short and simple story with nothing more to add and never tell a soul what really happened.
...and life experience tells me that his family (...and possibly his long term mistress) would know that he is lying.
People will suspect and accuse, the police will know and the media will dig. But until it is proven in accordance with our legal system, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
In Australia, we are very restrictive as to what information is released during an investigation, so unfortunately "sleuthing" is very difficult and often based primarily on unsubstantiated information. If someone came in tomorrow and said it was GBC's gay lover that murdered Allison, we would probably dismiss it. But we have absolutely no way of really knowing.
Unfortunately commonsense and logic is not always used; therefore without being privy to the evidence and substantiated information, we will all remain none the wiser.

 

[marlywings]

Sorry to bring it up again, but I think it's hugely important where the children were on the Thursday night.
I'm still not convinced the children were away "that night." and that is where I find the confusion, it seems the friend said " that night " and the reporter very sloppily just ran with that without clarifying which night she meant. I guess the reporter didn't realise that it could be such an important factor.


The original reason I kept asking was because I thought it may have been something the children said that made the police suspicious.
Even if they were at grandparents house, they may have heard phones or cars in the middle of night.

I've stopped asking about it lately but glad others still see it as unclear.
Please don't shoot me I'll try not to mention it again but it is a very important fact.

The sleepover was clarified as being the Thursday night.

It was in a report on either 11th, 12th or 13th May.

 

[Seeking]

And imagine even more so if he opened his door that first morning BEFORE he called the police and found them standing there, and him thinking WTF they cant have found her allready, and then the police saying "everything OK here sir can we see your wife " what else could he say when her car is still there but "she is out walking at moment"

Oh to have been a fly on the wall if this is what did happen.

If it happened like that why did Mr Ainsworth say so early in the piece that at that point GBC wasn't a suspect?

 

[KatiKutloose]

funny from my perspective GBC's sister didn't really look nervous...she looked normal...delightful....although I believe she suffered from depression....

I thought she was being hyper-vigilant, she was holding her bottom lip with her teeth and her eyes started to dart from side to side. MOO

 

[wakeskate]

Me either. But if it was because Allison had to prepare for an event the next morning, it may have been more of a babysitting issue than a sleep over.

As you said, there is a perfect reason for them to have been at a sleep over, but apart from one quote that could be taken either way and the media reporting it two ways, we don't know for sure.

In my industry, assumptions are the mother of all f-ups. I tend to work on that principal. As soon as you start adding too many variables then you might as well be writing a fiction piece. Yeah you can run through different scenarios for what might have happened if it were true, but there are people on here taking it as fact when it hasn't been confirmed. Just look at the "when I last saw her" fact. There are three different reports in the media.

 

[mountainhigh]

Would it be possible that the ABC and GBC met with Mr Baden-Clay senior for marriage counselling and there was a confrontation that led to ABC death?

yes it could be as simple as this (has crossed my mind i must admit given the big Kohuna is a marriage facilitator - puke-vomit...) and he was there as a mediator trying to sort his son's mess out (but no doubt defending his son's actions in some twisted way! imo).
Not uncommon for a parent or another family member to come in and try and assist in some way in keeping their family 'together'.

But more recently I am leaning toward pre meditated, because I just don't see this lot getting 'out of control' that much that someone gets killed.
I have some pretty rough and ready extended family and freinds and i have seen some pretty big domestic bust ups in my time that I am sure would make GBC's violence look like 'doggy day care' and rarely in witnessing ANY of this violence or being apart of it
have I ever been concerned that someone would die. Apart from freakish head falls that happen to one in a million people, it is not that easy to physically kill someone with your bare hands in a garden variety domestic bust up.
this is why i am leaning toward pre mediatated. i am also leaning toward a drug cocktail that would 'slow' your victim right down and make it as easy as possible.

takes only 2-3 mins to drown someone in a bathtub..
apart from water all over the place I would imagine it leaves a pretty clean murder scene.. (NOT RELATED TO ANYTHING....JUST SAYING)

 

[marlywings]

I predict we'll continue to rehash until an arrest is made. :yes:

Here's hoping that arrest won't be too far away otherwise it's going to be a longggg haul....lol

Another case here in Brisbane.... the trial only began a couple of months back. The murders took place back in 2003....the suspect wasn't charged until 2008 (or thereabouts)