Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #12

[UnfoldingTruth]

On the chain theory.There has been no confirmation, and as has been discussed, seems an unlikely theory IMO. The police said there were no obvious signs of foul play or C.O.D. I think..will go check media links. But if this is so, then I think a chain wrapped aorund the body would be an obvious sign? So doesn't really fit.

EDIT: so maybe I am wrong about the no obvious signs of foul play? does anyone have a link to it. I could not find in the official Links.

Found a link, there is a statement in the article that reads..'The Courier-Mail understands the body had no visual signs of foul play but police are treating the incident as a homicide'

http://heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/hope-turns-to-heartbreak-for-allison-baden-clays-family-after-body-found-at-kholo-creek/story-e6frf7l6-1226343535002

So therefore if this is reported correctly, I thnk we can assume the chain theory is not true. IMO

 

[Kimster]

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THIS POST LANDS AT RANDOM

 

[Fuskier]

does anyone have any news on the chain theory? has there been any confirmation from the locals that a chain was missing from coles carpark? and would this be caught on the CCTV from the roundabout?

:tyou:

Could it be possible that allegedly Allison's body was chained to a log submerged under the water - with the intention that it never be found? But with the torrents of water and high tides, the bloated corpse may have dislodged, separated from the hand and travelled downstream or floated to the surface, swirled around the bridge pylons until it came to its final resting place under the bridge. As the tide receded, Allison's body was found resting on the bank. MOO.

 

[linette]

Could it be possible that allegedly Allison's body was chained to a log submerged under the water - with the intention that it never be found? But with the torrents of water and high tides, the bloated corpse may have dislodged, separated from the hand and travelled downstream or floated to the surface, swirled around the bridge pylons until it came to its final resting place under the bridge. As the tide receded, Allison's body was found resting on the bank. MOO.

That's interesting. I had not thought about that. Sounds possible for sure.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I want to re-visit the iphone scenario because, frankly, I just don't understand WHY it took police so long to establish a 'hot zone' for its location, when this zone ended up being relatively close to the BC residence and in an area in which dozens of searchers were busy. I do understand why it might not have been found, but it seemed to take days for them to hone in on its signal. Was it there from the outset - or was it surreptitiously placed there one night a day or so after the search had begun??
Secondly: someone on this post spoke about a man with a black dog who seemed to want to strike up a conversation with her and asked for directions to the shop down the road from the BC residence. Has this man been positively identified I wonder? A local? NOT a local? (Murderers so often like to re-visit the scene / surrounds of their crime).
This brings me to a theory I have. What if ABC was being stalked: By someone who had a secret yen for her / a common nutter / someone who felt that they had been 'rejected' by her for any real OR crazy reason / someone who knew her well / was jealous of her...? The BC's nearby neighbour said her little dog went (uncharacteristically) crazy about 10.00pm on the night ABC disappeared and tore down the back yard (not out the front, where presumably ABC would have exited into the road for her walk). Surely this little dog would have been familiar with the scent of the BC's? However, if someone strange was lurking about that evening, trying to spy on ABC, the dog might easily have been disturbed by this 'new' presence. When ABC left the house for a walk, this 'stalker' had the perfect opportunity, followed her to where the screams were heard and took his/her chances.
Yes, the police say that ABC was killed by someone she 'knew'. However, this is only their opinion (unsubstantiated by fact yet, as far as we know). AND - they do not specify whether it was someone she knew: as a nodding acquaintance / through professional connections / as a friend / by sight / or intimately, etc.
GBC has it all stacked against him: statistics / his apparently flirtatious manner / rumours of affairs / business going bad / public opinion - which, let's face it, can turn from nice to nasty in the blink of any eye, especially when some would possibly have felt envious of his outward financial success, beautiful wife and gorgeous daughters. It is also quite possible that his 'affairs' were never sexually consumated, but rather deeply intense emotional extra-marital friendships which, when observed by 'outsiders', suggested a closeness that they assumed was the result of a sexual liasion and made their tongues wag. ABC may have felt uncomfortable about all this and secretly a little 'guilty' as in "Am I failing him somehow"? But he probably still loved her and she him.
If I had a barney with my partner and he/she stormed out and got murdered en route I could hardly bear to live with myself, especially with little children involved. The remorse and guilt would be almost unbearable.
So - back to the man with the black dog then?

1) quite possibly they were given information in the end where to find it. yet it has not to my knowledge been found. Last report I saw was police had not found it yet. The day Allisons body was found. They suddenly narrowed their search for it to within 150m surroundung Baden-clay house and neighbouring properties.(this has been reported in media). It said they were told where to search(or similar words to this affect).

2)As for the stalker, entirely possible there was someone, that we have not been told about creating hassles. I believe the police to have a knowledge of who. And A stalker if the case could definitely be someon known to Allison and her husband.

3) the affair has been reported as factual. Not simply observed by 'outsiders'. the mistress has admitted to the affair.

I don't really think all that much of the man with the dog. It was way after the fact of Allison going missing and her body being found. ANd sure it could be as you say. But really maybe someone was coming for a stickybeak. Maybe he was new to the area. Maybe he was visiting the area..many different reasons/possibilities

 

[Heyerdahl]

I want to re-visit the iphone scenario because, frankly, I just don't understand WHY it took police so long to establish a 'hot zone' for its location, when this zone ended up being relatively close to the BC residence and in an area in which dozens of searchers were busy. I do understand why it might not have been found, but it seemed to take days for them to hone in on its signal. Was it there from the outset - or was it surreptitiously placed there one night a day or so after the search had begun??
Secondly: someone on this post spoke about a man with a black dog who seemed to want to strike up a conversation with her and asked for directions to the shop down the road from the BC residence. Has this man been positively identified I wonder? A local? NOT a local? (Murderers so often like to re-visit the scene / surrounds of their crime).
This brings me to a theory I have. What if ABC was being stalked: By someone who had a secret yen for her / a common nutter / someone who felt that they had been 'rejected' by her for any real OR crazy reason / someone who knew her well / was jealous of her...? The BC's nearby neighbour said her little dog went (uncharacteristically) crazy about 10.00pm on the night ABC disappeared and tore down the back yard (not out the front, where presumably ABC would have exited into the road for her walk). Surely this little dog would have been familiar with the scent of the BC's? However, if someone strange was lurking about that evening, trying to spy on ABC, the dog might easily have been disturbed by this 'new' presence. When ABC left the house for a walk, this 'stalker' had the perfect opportunity, followed her to where the screams were heard and took his/her chances.
Yes, the police say that ABC was killed by someone she 'knew'. However, this is only their opinion (unsubstantiated by fact yet, as far as we know). AND - they do not specify whether it was someone she knew: as a nodding acquaintance / through professional connections / as a friend / by sight / or intimately, etc.
GBC has it all stacked against him: statistics / his apparently flirtatious manner / rumours of affairs / business going bad / public opinion - which, let's face it, can turn from nice to nasty in the blink of any eye, especially when some would possibly have felt envious of his outward financial success, beautiful wife and gorgeous daughters. It is also quite possible that his 'affairs' were never sexually consumated, but rather deeply intense emotional extra-marital friendships which, when observed by 'outsiders', suggested a closeness that they assumed was the result of a sexual liasion and made their tongues wag. ABC may have felt uncomfortable about all this and secretly a little 'guilty' as in "Am I failing him somehow"? But he probably still loved her and she him.
If I had a barney with my partner and he/she stormed out and got murdered en route I could hardly bear to live with myself, especially with little children involved. The remorse and guilt would be almost unbearable.
So - back to the man with the black dog then?

 

[linette]

I have a question based on the missing hand theory.Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Some on here have mentioned that IF the hand was missing it could be because of the body decomposing. My question is, {how do I say this?} well, i can understand the body itself changing, but I would have thought that the bones would still be intact at that stage? Intact as in the hand would still be attached to the arm even if body was decomposing? Gee, I hope that made sense, it makes sense in my head. :/

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Could it be possible that allegedly Allison's body was chained to a log submerged under the water - with the intention that it never be found? But with the torrents of water and high tides, the bloated corpse may have dislodged, separated from the hand and travelled downstream or floated to the surface, swirled around the bridge pylons until it came to its final resting place under the bridge. As the tide receded, Allison's body was found resting on the bank. MOO.

If reported correctly by the CourierMail in the link I just posted. Then the chain theory does not hold weight. There appears to have been no visible signs of foul play. A chain IMO would be classed as a visible sign.

 

[linette]

If reported correctly by the CourierMail in the link I just posted. Then the chain theory does not hold weight. There appears to have been no visible signs of foul play. A chain IMO would be classed as a visible sign.

That's what I think everyone finds so confusing, hey? They say no signs of foul play, but then the body wouldn't have been in good shape by then anyway. It would have been hard to tell if there were bruises and cuts etc. I'm not talking about the chain as such, but as for marks on her body... it would be hard.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

That's what I think everyone finds so confusing, hey? They say no signs of foul play, but then the body wouldn't have been in good shape by then anyway. It would have been hard to tell if there were bruises and cuts etc. I'm not talking about the chain as such, but as for marks on her body... it would be hard.

I guess, Police investigators, make an initial assement of the body. They would of course take into account all possibilities for marks ect. But that is something more detailed forensics would have to look at after. But something like a chain would be pretty obvious. Unless the police have reported no visible foul play to not give out any details at this stage, not so sure about that though.

 

[Elspeth]

Unsure but has it been established that Allison was actually murdered on the night/morning she went missing?

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Unsure but has it been established that Allison was actually murdered on the night/morning she went missing?

Not sure it has. But Police have said she was murdered before her body was dumped. As for exactly when, not sure thats been stated. But more assumed to be the Thurs night/Fri morn.

 

[Greg]

HA HA Im back.....24 hours in timeout purgatory gave me time to reflect on things......especially my own actions

riddle me this Batman..the chain theory does not hold weight....I think there is something in that for all of us!

 

[minni]

there was a comment made by police at one point that Allison's body may have been dumped as early as 8pm. Given that she has also been reported as leaving the hairdressers at 7pm, I don't put a lot of stock into 'ABC and GBC went to dinner and were seen having on argument on CCTV'

It doesnt seem like nearly enough time to leave the hairdressers at 7, grab a quick bite, have a fight, then be killed and driven out to Anstead/Mt crosby all in order to be dumped by 8pm.
On top of that, It would almost certainly imply that GBC was most likely the one who did it as he would have been seen with her in the 15 - 20 minutes prior to the dumping of the body.
I dont think it adds up IMO..

 

[minni]

HA HA Im back.....24 hours in timeout purgatory gave me time to reflect on things......especially my own actions

riddle me this Batman..the chain theory does not hold weight....I think there is something in that for all of us!

you had 24 hours to think of that one huh? welcome back! It doesnt make sense if you are looking at the premeditation theory. If it was unintentional or spur of the moment, it would seem like a bit of extra work all in all, but if you were driving around and thinking submerging a body is a good way to hide it, it might come to mind. I think though, if I lived out that way (and killed someone of course), there are a lot of places to hide a body. IMO

 

[possumheart]

there was a comment made by police at one point that Allison's body may have been dumped as early as 8pm. Given that she has also been reported as leaving the hairdressers at 7pm, I don't put a lot of stock into 'ABC and GBC went to dinner and were seen having on argument on CCTV'

It doesnt seem like nearly enough time to leave the hairdressers at 7, grab a quick bite, have a fight, then be killed and driven out to Anstead/Mt crosby all in order to be dumped by 8pm.
On top of that, It would almost certainly imply that GBC was most likely the one who did it as he would have been seen with her in the 15 - 20 minutes prior to the dumping of the body.
I dont think it adds up IMO..

They may have argued soon after arriving and being seated, leaving quickly and not eating ... don't know where the poisoning fits in though.

 

[willough]

HA HA Im back.....24 hours in timeout purgatory gave me time to reflect on things......especially my own actions

riddle me this Batman..the chain theory does not hold weight....I think there is something in that for all of us!

I agree Naughty Boy (winks)....It just doesnt hold weight. I did wonder whether there was a chance this missing hand was attached to the chain, and the body broke away in what a few say was a torrent of water coming down the creek. But, I really just dont think that happened....As someone wrote above, surely although decomposition of skin and tissue would occur, surely not bone at this stage...Or is bone density completely different once it has been submerged for her certain length of time (up to 10-11 days).

 

[ActusReus]

there was a comment made by police at one point that Allison's body may have been dumped as early as 8pm. Given that she has also been reported as leaving the hairdressers at 7pm, I don't put a lot of stock into 'ABC and GBC went to dinner and were seen having on argument on CCTV'

It doesnt seem like nearly enough time to leave the hairdressers at 7, grab a quick bite, have a fight, then be killed and driven out to Anstead/Mt crosby all in order to be dumped by 8pm.
On top of that, It would almost certainly imply that GBC was most likely the one who did it as he would have been seen with her in the 15 - 20 minutes prior to the dumping of the body.
I dont think it adds up IMO..

Given that QPS were interested in vehicle movements from 11.30pm it is entirely possible that the murder took place between 8pm and 10pm. This isn't a very big time window.

If the alleged dinner date can be confirmed this could narrow down the time even further.

But then, this assumes ABC wasn't driving one of the vehicles after 11.30pm......

I think I've just confused myself......

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

HA HA Im back.....24 hours in timeout purgatory gave me time to reflect on things......especially my own actions

riddle me this Batman..the chain theory does not hold weight....I think there is something in that for all of us!

Welcome back Greg

What kind of stupid murderer whould steal a heavy chain to weigh a body down and then only wrap it round the victim's wrist??

 

[KatiKutloose]

May I just add to spratsmum's post...


April 24, 2012

"He always called her angel, never Allison but angel," one said

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...lison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226336572342

Yet had a mistress/s

Probably called them all Angel so he didn't get their names wrong. Moo