Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15

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The irony is he's a very good agent and he operates a sound business model. But obviously reputation is everything in such a competitive industry, and one would think that is now seriously compromised. Then again, the public has a fickle memory. We won't be talking about this in six months' time ...


"he's a very good agent and he operates a sound business model" Is that rumor or fact?
I only ask because he had to sell his Lexus and was driving a Prado (not top of the line), didn't own his own home (renting), was having an affair with one of his employees and had fibbed about his accountancy degree. He's now operating out of an office that can be hired by the day. All of that, and more, have been supported on this forum with links.

I'm one 'public' that won't have a fickle memory, very time I see the names Baden-Clay or Baden-Powell I'll always think of Allison and her 3 girls.
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...results-released/story-e6freoof-1226372823158
THE toxicology results in the Allison Baden-Clay murder case have been released but police are yet to announce what killed the 43 year-old mother of three.
It is understood other forensic test results are outstanding, but police say they are moving as fast as they can in the investigation.
More to come

Report also states -"It's understood the information will help secure an arrest"

:waitasec: Do you think after the toxicology tests, they believe that Allison was drugged?
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...results-released/story-e6freoof-1226372823158

THE toxicology results in the Allison Baden-Clay murder case have been released but police are yet to announce what killed the 43 year-old mother of three.
It is understood other forensic test results are outstanding, but police say they are moving as fast as they can in the investigation.
Snipped.

BBM.

I find this very interesting in light of the toxicology results being released. Police have stated that Allison was murdered by someone but they state that they "are yet to announce what killed the mother of three." Was she poisoned?

Speculation on my part.
 
You Betcha - wonder whats for dinner in the BC household - cause it might be one of the last suppers together for awhile.....

Considering his financial situation ... Maybe cheapa$$ Tuesday pizza lol.
 
"he's a very good agent and he operates a sound business model" Is that rumor or fact?
I only ask because he had to sell his Lexus and was driving a Prado (not top of the line), didn't own his own home (renting), was having an affair with one of his employees and had fibbed about his accountancy degree. He's now operating out of an office that can be hired by the day. All of that, and more, have been supported on this forum with links.

I'm one 'public' that won't have a fickle memory, very time I see the names Baden-Clay or Baden-Powell I'll always think of Allison and her 3 girls.

Very well said, and I agree.
 
Quoting from the Courier Mail article, "Police won't reveal what information they've gleaned so far from the post-mortem on Mrs Baden-Clay's body and say they won't be releasing any findings".

Does this mean that they won't be announcing COD at all? :waitasec:
 
"he's a very good agent and he operates a sound business model" Is that rumor or fact?
I only ask because he had to sell his Lexus and was driving a Prado (not top of the line), didn't own his own home (renting), was having an affair with one of his employees and had fibbed about his accountancy degree. He's now operating out of an office that can be hired by the day. All of that, and more, have been supported on this forum with links.

I'm one 'public' that won't have a fickle memory, very time I see the names Baden-Clay or Baden-Powell I'll always think of Allison and her 3 girls.

Allison was a beautiful daughter, and a mother on a journey not completed.

The Dixie family are going to have to brace themselves for a painful trial.
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...results-released/story-e6freoof-1226372823158

THE toxicology results in the Allison Baden-Clay murder case have been released but police are yet to announce what killed the 43 year-old mother of three.
It is understood other forensic test results are outstanding, but police say they are moving as fast as they can in the investigation. Snipped.

BBM.

I find this very interesting in light of the toxicology results being released. Police have stated that Allison was murdered by someone but they state that they "are yet to announce what killed the mother of three." Was she poisoned?

Speculation on my part.

Quoting myself here, sorry. The CM have just changed the wording of the initial article, some of which I posted above. At the same link it now reads;

THE toxicology results in the Allison Baden-Clay murder case have been returned but police are yet to announce how the 43-year-old mother of three was killed.

:waitasec:
 
Maybe evidence of an overdose of an antidepressant? Hence the comment by OW about her 'being depressed'. Mind you, overdose of paracetamol is lethal and very accessible.
Yes, more progress. Hopefully arrest/s not long now?
 
"It is the last piece of the forensic tests puzzle to come back and police say they are moving as fast as they can in the investigation.

It is understood the information will help secure an arrest.

Police won't reveal what information they've gleaned so far from the post mortem on Mrs Baden-Clay's body and say they won't be releasing the toxicology findings which were returned yesterday."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...results-released/story-e6freoof-1226372823158

Very interesting wording to say the least. I have faith on the QPS and believe they have tons of evidence - its only a matter of time before an arrest is made. IMO.
 
Someone was asking about differences between murder and manslaughter trials and the consequences. A manslaughter charge is usually chosen where there is strong evidence that the accused caused the other person's death but there is not enough admissible evidence to ensure good prospects of success. There are basically two forms of murder recognised in Qld.

The first is where the accused intended to inflcit serious or fatal injuries on some other person, and as a result of that intention somebody in fact died. That's the usual form you see reported, whete the accused set out to attack someone. That's provided for in s302(1)(a) of the Criminal Code.

The other form of murder is where the accused was involved in carrying out some other sort of crime, such as a burglary, rape or armed robbery and while doing that they do something which causes another person's death. They might, for example, be carrying out a servo robbery and fire a warning shot which ricochets off a wall and hits the attendant in the head, killing him. You can find that in s.302(1)(b) of the Criminal Code. Another example could be an assailant who drugs a woman to overcome resistance so that he can rape her, and she dies as a result of the drug (by interacting with a prescription she is taking say). In that latter situation he didn't intend any serious injury but he was committing a crime (rape) did something dangerous and as a result she died.

Lots of different scenarios posters have suggested on the forum could ground any of the above charges.

Sometimes the DPP will negotiate with the defence for a plea of guilty to manslaughter in exchange for not pursuing the murder charge. Even if a murder trial goes ahead the accused can be acquitted of the murder but convicted of manslaughter by the jury, after the judge sums up for them.

Murder is the more serious charge, but manslaughter can actually result in as many years behind bars. The Corrective Services Act says that a prisoner convicted of murder is eligible to apply for parole after serving 15 years of their 'mandatory' life sentence. Many such people do in fact get parole at that time.

There is a maximum (non mandatory) sentence of life imprisonment for manslaughter. But, crucially, it is classified as a Serious Violent Offence in the Penalties and Sentences Act, which means that the prisoner must serve at least 80% of their sentence or 15 years before being eligible to apply for parole (whichever is the shorter). So a 20 year sentence for manslaughter has almost the same effect. The court can also specify a later parole eligibility date.

Sentences for non murder offences that severe are rare, but not unheard of. It's also possible for the court to impose an indefinite sentence in which the offender has no parole eligibility date, but is assessed by a tribunal as to the risk they pose to the community at various stages. We have a few such prisoners in Qld. They are usually violent, serial rapists.

Many manslaughter convictions grounded in DV contexts seem to attract a maximum of about 10 years. If that were the sentence, the offender would be eligible to apply for parole after 8 years, with the serious violent offender declaration. It would be tempting to think that where a person is also convicted of additional offences arising from the same events, such as interfering with a corpse etc, that a conviction for those offences would increase the overall sentence. But virtually all prosecutions which result in convictions for multiple offences lead to sentences which are served concurrently, meaning that the offender serves the time for the most serious offence and is deemed to be also serving the other sentences at the same time.
 
Just a fictional piece of writing here - wife goes to hairdressers, husband prepares dinner or gets a takeaway. He eats his meal and heavily laces the remainder with crushed sleeping pills and serves her alcohol. Realising that she is not going to die from this quantity of pills without alcohol. He places sleeping victim into his car and takes her to local creek in the Red Zone where he tries to drown her - hoping it will look like she took tablets and drowned whilst taking a walk. She comes around and manages to scream but is easily overpowered by him and she dies. Realising there are now signs of a struggle and witnesses to her screams, he has to make more serious attempt at hiding the body - puts her back in car and drives to Kholo creek hoping that by the time she is found forensic evidence will be limited.
 
Investigators and defence lawyers have a lot to work on apart from trial considerations. They need to collect all sorts of material relevant to sentencing if there is to be a manslaughter trial or conviction in addition to all the trial preparation. If there is an arrest I would not expect a trial for at least a year, probably more. If the accused is on remand for that period and is convicted of manslaughter, that year would be considered part of their eventual sentence if convicted. A bail application hearing in this matter woud be a big deal and would involve some high powered legal and evidentiary argument.
 
Thanks Hawkins!

One more question. What are the terms to differentiate the two types of murder in Queensland?
 
"It is the last piece of the forensic tests puzzle to come back and police say they are moving as fast as they can in the investigation.

It is understood the information will help secure an arrest.

Police won't reveal what information they've gleaned so far from the post mortem on Mrs Baden-Clay's body and say they won't be releasing the toxicology findings which were returned yesterday."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...results-released/story-e6freoof-1226372823158

Very interesting wording to say the least. I have faith on the QPS and believe they have tons of evidence - its only a matter of time before an arrest is made. IMO.

If the toxicology results were returned yesterday the QPS would have IMO informed GBC and possibly with these findings is why he went to his office to begin work again...
 
Someone was asking about differences between murder and manslaughter trials and the consequences. A manslaughter charge is usually chosen where there is strong evidence that the accused caused the other person's death but there is not enough admissible evidence to ensure good prospects of success. There are basically two forms of murder recognised in Qld.

The first is where the accused intended to inflcit serious or fatal injuries on some other person, and as a result of that intention somebody in fact died. That's the usual form you see reported, whete the accused set out to attack someone. That's provided for in s302(1)(a) of the Criminal Code.

The other form of murder is where the accused was involved in carrying out some other sort of crime, such as a burglary, rape or armed robbery and while doing that they do something which causes another person's death. They might, for example, be carrying out a servo robbery and fire a warning shot which ricochets off a wall and hits the attendant in the head, killing him. You can find that in s.302(1)(b) of the Criminal Code. Another example could be an assailant who drugs a woman to overcome resistance so that he can rape her, and she dies as a result of the drug (by interacting with a prescription she is taking say). In that latter situation he didn't intend any serious injury but he was committing a crime (rape) did something dangerous and as a result she died.

Lots of different scenarios posters have suggested on the forum could ground any of the above charges.

Sometimes the DPP will negotiate with the defence for a plea of guilty to manslaughter in exchange for not pursuing the murder charge. Even if a murder trial goes ahead the accused can be acquitted of the murder but convicted of manslaughter by the jury, after the judge sums up for them.

Murder is the more serious charge, but manslaughter can actually result in as many years behind bars. The Corrective Services Act says that a prisoner convicted of murder is eligible to apply for parole after serving 15 years of their 'mandatory' life sentence. Many such people do in fact get parole at that time.

There is a maximum (non mandatory) sentence of life imprisonment for manslaughter. But, crucially, it is classified as a Serious Violent Offence in the Penalties and Sentences Act, which means that the prisoner must serve at least 80% of their sentence or 15 years before being eligible to apply for parole (whichever is the shorter). So a 20 year sentence for manslaughter has almost the same effect. The court can also specify a later parole eligibility date.

Sentences for non murder offences that severe are rare, but not unheard of. It's also possible for the court to impose an indefinite sentence in which the offender has no parole eligibility date, but is assessed by a tribunal as to the risk they pose to the community at various stages. We have a few such prisoners in Qld. They are usually violent, serial rapists.

Many manslaughter convictions grounded in DV contexts seem to attract a maximum of about 10 years. If that were the sentence, the offender would be eligible to apply for parole after 8 years, with the serious violent offender declaration. It would be tempting to think that where a person is also convicted of additional offences arising from the same events, such as interfering with a corpse etc, that a conviction for those offences would increase the overall sentence. But virtually all prosecutions which result in convictions for multiple offences lead to sentences which are served concurrently, meaning that the offender serves the time for the most serious offence and is deemed to be also serving the other sentences at the same time.

:goodpost:
 
I think I missed that part about knowing COD. If this is correct, it means death is related to those variants detected in toxicology examination (drugs, alcohol, stomach contents, etc), or the results rule out something that needed to be eliminated before confirming another COD.

I'll have to watch the clip when (hopefully!) they post it on their website.

They did not say what the COD was, just that QPS now knew how she died. I agree, toxicology has either ruled out something, or confirmed something.
 
There is a bit of a phenomon whereby people who know they are about to be locked up for a long time head out to Maccas for a binge feed the night, or day, before. Just sayin'.
 
Many manslaughter convictions grounded in DV contexts seem to attract a maximum of about 10 years. If that were the sentence, the offender would be eligible to apply for parole after 8 years, with the serious violent offender declaration. It would be tempting to think that where a person is also convicted of additional offences arising from the same events, such as interfering with a corpse etc, that a conviction for those offences would increase the overall sentence. But virtually all prosecutions which result in convictions for multiple offences lead to sentences which are served concurrently, meaning that the offender serves the time for the most serious offence and is deemed to be also serving the other sentences at the same time.

Thanks again Hawkins...

Clients will be made well aware of this by their lawyers??..

It stinks big time in my opinion...kill another human being, do whatever with the body...go to jail for approx piddly 8yrs....then you're out free to live the rest of your life wherever you want.
 
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