Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #17

[Keentoknow]

BBM -
Sorry, but that is not correct. An investigation encompasses many aspects not just what they may or may not have found in cars.

This might help. Worth a read re testing.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/Resour...e 14 - SMIRV - a scientific success story.pdf

 

[CaseClosed]

I've enlarged this pic and indicated with the arrows where Allison and the policeman are.

I'm sorry if this photo is offensive. I find it very disturbing but I like to think that Allison is in a better place now, looking over her three little girls. What we see on that riverbank is Allison's shell. Her spirit will live on forever.

Click image to enlarge.

YES. - I think of her spirit having left her body the second she died, not when she was disposed of.

 

[itsthevibe]

That's what I thought at first too itsthevibe...but now I think the officer is pointing where to drop the stretcher.

In the two photos posted just before...one section is blurred out...the other photo shows her body by the water's edge....this is below where the officer is standing.

Hi Marlywings, I dont think you're correct. People mentioned this at the beginning too, about a section being blurred out where the body was - but if you look at the photo again you will see lots of blurry spots, they are more likely to be shadows due to foliage or flaws in the photo, weak pixels ot whatever. I dont think there's any specific 'blurring out'.

The body is diagonally to the right of the police officer, and you can see the legs are bent, which is what people were discussing in recent days.

 

[True]

I've enlarged this pic and indicated with the arrows where Allison and the policeman are.

I'm sorry if this photo is offensive. I find it very disturbing but I like to think that Allison is in a better place now, looking over her three little girls. What we see on that riverbank is Allison's shell. Her spirit will live on forever.

Click image to enlarge.

Thank you Makara, I'm going to print that off and take it with me when I go out there. Lots of detail there.

 

[possumheart]

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/services_resources/item_details.php?item_id=205989
Mt Crosby

 

[itsthevibe]

I've enlarged this pic and indicated with the arrows where Allison and the policeman are.

I'm sorry if this photo is offensive. I find it very disturbing but I like to think that Allison is in a better place now, looking over her three little girls. What we see on that riverbank is Allison's shell. Her spirit will live on forever.

Click image to enlarge.

Yes, I agree with positioning, and feel the same way about it all. yet I feel a deep sense of reverence every time I look at that photo. When you posted it the first time back on Thread #3 I couldnt look at it and didnt for a few more threads, when i decided I would try to consider how the body got there. I did note however, your respectful note and sensitivity about it. Thanks for this.

 

[CaseClosed]

This might help. Worth a read re testing.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/Resour...e 14 - SMIRV - a scientific success story.pdf

That's excellent!! Thank you!

 

[True]

I'm going through my address book trying to work out who to ask to come with me, without thinking I'm totally nuts, which I probably am. Looks like it may be the hubby and that's a good thing as he in incredibly smart and will notice things I probably won't. Now to talk him into it. I don't think I can face that place alone.

 

[Makara]

Thank you Makara, I'm going to print that off and take it with me when I go out there. Lots of detail there.

Please be careful. And please don't mention on here what day you'll be going.

 

[True]

Already thought of Makara... Thank you

 

[CaseClosed]

Hi Marlywings, I dont think you're correct. People mentioned this at the beginning too, about a section being blurred out where the body was - but if you look at the photo again you will see lots of blurry spots, they are more likely to be shadows due to foliage or flaws in the photo, weak pixels ot whatever. I dont think there's any specific 'blurring out'.

The body is diagonally to the right of the police officer, and you can see the legs are bent, which is what people were discussing in recent days.

I can see her lower body in the shadow area and her upper body from the waist up in the sunny area. I can see her head (face and dark hair) and one hand and arm (in dark clothing). I cannot see bend legs.

 

[marlywings]

Hi Marlywings, I dont think you're correct. People mentioned this at the beginning too, about a section being blurred out where the body was - but if you look at the photo again you will see lots of blurry spots, they are more likely to be shadows due to foliage or flaws in the photo, weak pixels ot whatever. I dont think there's any specific 'blurring out'.

The body is diagonally to the right of the police officer, and you can see the legs are bent, which is what people were discussing in recent days.

Thanks itsthevibe...yep I was wrong...I think it was when I looked at the other photo someone else posted it looked like the body was down by water's edge...then in another, that same area seemed to be blurred out. So then I started wondering if the body wasn't found as quite high up as first thought.

The raging torrent as described by a local would have to have been full on to move the body downstream & up to that height on the bank I think...the sides seem so steep.

Makara...thanks again for the photo....also thanks to Dork Whisperer for all the photos you've posted...great job!!... much appreciated.

 

[grannie]

I find this comment offensive and very judgemental - in the first place it was Al Anon meeting an organisation for families of alcoholics. I am not an alcoholic and neither are any of my family and I have nothing to do with the organisation, but I believe it does help many people. We are talking about ordinary people here, the ones we pass in the shopping centre, that coach our children at sport, attend church with us, for all we know may be our close friends. They are not fiends or "potentially dangerous people", anymore than the rest of us. I think the way this was said and posted was truly awful.

You can think whatever. I was not talking about how effective or ineffective the AA is, in general. I was talking about the possibility for a drug addict or his mates to be around that place for whatever reason on Thursday night. Some AA members do not attend meeting by their wish, they are legally obligated.

Now about "ordinary people who coach our children at sport, attend church with us, for all we know may be our close friends". Hope you enjoy the following:
http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/comment/37139
http://leavingaa.com/?tag=violent-criminals-in-aa-meetings
http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=606059#.T8snyXlycs1
http://www.sgvtribune.com/ci_19311226#ixzz1dP39SIOL

 

[CaseClosed]

You can think whatever. I was not talking about how effective or ineffective the AA is, in general. I was talking about the possibility for a drug addict or his mates to be around that place for whatever reason on Thursday night. Some AA members do not attend meeting by their wish, they are legally obligated.

Now about "ordinary people who coach our children at sport, attend church with us, for all we know may be our close friends". Hope you enjoy the following:
http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/comment/37139
http://leavingaa.com/?tag=violent-criminals-in-aa-meetings
http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=606059#.T8snyXlycs1
http://www.sgvtribune.com/ci_19311226#ixzz1dP39SIOL

I think you have misunderstood what was said. It was not an AA ("Alchoholics Annonimus") meeting. It was and "Al-Anon" meeting, which is for the families of people with alcoholism, not for the recovering alcoholics themselves!

 

[CJ60]

I'm going through my address book trying to work out who to ask to come with me, without thinking I'm totally nuts, which I probably am. Looks like it may be the hubby and that's a good thing as he in incredibly smart and will notice things I probably won't. Now to talk him into it. I don't think I can face that place alone.

No True,
Don't go alone. I drove up Wirrabarra Rd - I felt really isolated and couldn't wait to get back to the main road again. Maybe I was thinking irrationally because of what has happened in that area. Take someone with you.

 

[grannie]

BBM -
Sorry, but that is not correct. An investigation encompasses many aspects not just what they may or may not have found in cars.

In this case, fingerprints, hair or even a drop of blood would not matter because the victim could drive either of the cars. What else is there to find? A murder weapon. Then it directly implicates GBC. Fresh soil samples from the scouts facility or the creek found on the car(s) - the same.

 

[pugsandfrogs]

Not sure if this has been shared yet, but I just spotted it in the Weekend Australian.
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/apathy-can-cost-lives/story-e6frg7g6-1226374769045

Apathy can cost lives
Ruth Ostrow
June 02, 2012 12:00AM

I REMEMBER walking in the streets of New York with my parents many years ago, when I was girl. We arrived at Times Square. There was a man on top of another, a knife was drawn and about to be plunged. A crowd had gathered but no one did anything. "C'mon," said my father as I implored that we do something. Even at 12 I knew that to do nothing was wrong.
But my father did not stop, pulling Mum and me by the hands. "This isn't Australia," he said. "If we interfere we could get stabbed or shot ourselves."
That was my first lesson in social responsibility - or lack thereof. All of which came back recently when reading reports related to the murder of Allison Baden-Clay. I was most disturbed by news that neighbours heard bloodcurdling screams the night she disappeared, but did nothing. One allegedly even said they would call the police but went inside and didn't.
Neighbours now say they feel bad about it. I can't stop wondering how things might have been different if someone had tried to help even in the most basic way.
I also can't help reflecting on a story I read in the papers a year or so ago about an apartment block in the US. Neighbours above and below could hear someone getting brutally murdered, but did nothing. "I thought it was a dog," one of them declared.
I'm not sure how I would react if I saw a crime being committed in front of my eyes. I certainly know many good samaritans are indeed killed, or held liable for what then transpires.
But I can say for certain, 100 per cent, that I would call the police if I heard a bloodcurdling scream from upstairs on in the street.
I guess people figure they could be called as witnesses, and someone nasty might threaten them. But in my case the reaction to a guttural, desperate scream would be immediate and would allow no time for reflection.
I have gotten out of cars and rushed across highways several times to save birds or wounded animals, especially when I lived in Byron Bay - without heeding the danger of being squashed. Later I have wondered where my head was.
But I think such a flood of protective hormones and emotions comes from normal human instincts. To me it seems abnormal to listen to distress and contemplate one's own safety. Or worse, be indifferent to the screams because there's something good on television, or dinner is ready.
If those cries were indeed from Allison and something could have been done, then shame on humanity that it wasn't.
Twitter @OstrowRuth
Blog ruthostrow.com

Thankyou Snails. Like you I was in NY 3 years ago and in particular Times Square and my 18 y.o. son was walking with us. My husband and younger daughter were ahead. Suddenly out of the blue a gang of youths came rushing up and started pushing my son and knocking over chairs and tables and at first I was shocked and then went to intervene. No-one else did anything other than quickly walk by. Fortunately for us a NYPD cop came over to see if we were alright and the youths split pronto. As it turned out, the youths were creating a diversion and had opened my backpack in an attempt to steal. But it was real scary and the fact that everyone just kept walking by. I make a point of observing and recording foreign car plate no's in our neighbourhood and more than once have assisted SAPOL with information about drug deals/fights etc.
It is such a shame that the majority of people are just scared.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

I've enlarged this pic and indicated with the arrows where Allison and the policeman are.

I'm sorry if this photo is offensive. I find it very disturbing but I like to think that Allison is in a better place now, looking over her three little girls. What we see on that riverbank is Allison's shell. Her spirit will live on forever.

Click image to enlarge.

Makara

Thank you for this. It's awful but it helps to continue hitting home the heinous things that were done to Allison. That's why I think the photos of the Holocaust are so important.

"Lest we Forget"

 

[itsthevibe]

Looking at this photo (thanks, incidentally!) reaffirms my suspicion that they wouldn't have stopped on the bridge, opened the back of the car and heftily thrown the body over the side. Even at that time of night, Murphy's Law might prevail and a car could drive past during that 30-second exercise. I think maybe they drove off the road into that little dirt side track (looking at photo - to the top right of the bridge), maybe even just 50m or so, enough to be shielded by bush, then carried the body through that 15m of bush edging the water and left it there, possibly submerged, possibly not. The rains have then carried it maybe 20m until the raised dirt surrounding the bridge pylon stopped it from travelling further downstream. IMO. Thoughts?

I agree, or they actually did place it where it was found.

I visited the bridge during the week for the first time, and I actually walked on that little verge section and then went partially down the sloping earth towards the waters edge. I didnt go right down, but i went far enough to ascertain what was possible and where things were positioned and so on.

If you go onto that dirt section (actually its not totally dirt it is covered in flattened long dry grass, as is the whole slope, combined with a few muddy sections here and there), you could easlly park a car or two on there, get the body out with a degree of stealth if you parked the rear of the car towards the river and at an angle. You could then carry or drag the body down towards the river, and then if you didnt want it to be seen as easily you could, with a degree of effort, take it further around and position it high up under the bridge. Alternatively if you left it just a little a bit closer to where you came down the slope and not as high up, once the waters rose it would bring the body up higher and it could easily get stuck there in mud once waters started subsiding.

Now that I've been there, i also am even more doubtful about the body being placed further upstream from the Scout camp or whatever those other theories were. Mainly because you can see there are so many bends and little outcrops in the creek, and a lot of foliage etc. I feel there are just too many areas the body could have got caught in along the way, for it to have managed to end up where it did.

It was interesting having a good look, it put it into perspective for me, and actually made me think a bit more about what happened with possibly another piece to the puzzle.

 

[CaseClosed]

In this case, fingerprints, hair or even a drop of blood would not matter because the victim could drive either of the cars. What else is there to find? A murder weapon. Then it directly implicates GBC. Fresh soil samples from the scouts facility or the creek found on the car(s) - the same.

Circumstantial evidence is not enough to convict someone. They could have found many other things (or even the smell of cadaver), but it is not enough to prove who killed her. QPS will not arrest somebody just on circumstantial evidence as it would not stick in Court.