Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #18

[stormbird]

When the search was on for Allison, the 'hot zone' for her phone signal was not at the house or where her body was dumped. I'm wondering if she left the house (walk/stormed out after a fight?) and this zone is where she was killed, or if she was killed and then the phone thrown out of a car window. Unless the triangulation was not accurate.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...urbs-of-brisbane/story-e6freoof-1226338302828

If the triangulation was accurate (and I can't get the "hot zone" thing to load, so I'm not sure exactly where it was supposed to be), then the phone must later have been moved back to the vicinity of Allison's house. That's if we're to believe the Australian's report on 01 May: "It is understood search crews were told the iPhone would be found in an area believed to be near the two neighbours and the Baden-Clay property itself."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...or-killer-begins/story-e6frg6oo-1226343136055

Maybe the Australian was referring to the initial searches of the house-and-surrounds when Allison was reported missing on 20 April, before the phone triangulation had been done. But if not - if it's referring to something searchers were told around the time that Allison's body was found - then either the first searches of the house failed to find a phone that was there all along, or the phone was moved there after those first searches had finished. IMO.

I think the most likely explanation is that the media probably misreported the situation or misinterpreted the police statements.

<
EDIT:

After this post I found the original article from the Courier Mail (which the
Australian had republished, adding an extra bit to the end). I read it this
time, instead of just skimming, and it DOES in fact say the searchers were sent
back at the time Allison's body was found:

"As the Kholo Creek crews worked, fresh search teams were sent to scour the
gardens of the Baden-Clays' two nearest neighbours looking for Allison's mobile
phone.
It is understood search crews were told the iPhone would be found in an area
-believed to be near the two neighbours and the Baden-Clay property itself.
Up to 20 police officers searched the neighbouring properties and dozens of SES
volunteers returned around 4pm to look again."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/horrific-end-for-model-mum/story-fn6ck45n-1226343128604

So, whether the phone's triangulation was accurate or not is a very good
question, JackiBee.

And I'm sorry for misreporting and misinterpreting what the journalists said...
--->

 

[Keentoknow]

I'd say for the police to say she knew her killer, then they must be pretty darn sure. As someone posted earlier, the police know so much more than we do... I'm thinking from the evidence they have at hand ... it shows she knew her killer. There could be many reasons behind their thinking.

Thanks Linette.
Det Supt Mark Ainsworth and his team will know more about the perp than the perp will know about himself.

http://www.news.com.au/national/killer-was-not-a-stranger-say-police/story-e6frfkvr-1226353911863

 

[linette]

Yes, I realise that. However, no one was stopping her from attending the Search Command. To me, her comments such as the one about depression only serve to explain her disappearance rather than solve it. Also sometimes family members make fliers etc to help find their loved one.

Finally, Allison's parents set up a media conference to plead for help finding her. The Police never stop family members doing that. The police cannot be blamed for everything the BCs failed to do. jmo

IMO there was so much more that they could have done. I know they wouldn't have been allowed to search, but that was only part of it... a very small part of what they could have done.
If it was me, and I was told to keep out of particular search area, I would've found somewhere else to go and search, just incase they were wrong. I would have gone on TV, making sure people knew how important it was that she was found... saying "Surely someone must have seen something!!"
I still can't get past the fact that they didn't do any of this. Some will say, 'well someone had to be there for the kids...' but I'm sure they would have appreciated the fact that Daddy etc were out looking for their mother.

 

[mum73]

Hi all, just wanted to clarify, I also brought in the NBC at bus stop rumour, as told to me by a high-level legal source who moves in very well connected circles (ie. with QCs and SCs, judges etc.). I was told, quote, "The father was involved; somebody saw an elderly guy sitting at the bus stop the night she went missing (Thursday night). Somebody stopped and asked if he was okay."

You can choose to link the father clause with the elderly guy clause in that sentence ... or not but it was inferred by the conversation I had with said source that the elderly guy was NBC.

I've been wondering if there is a bus stop at the Rafting Ground Rd roundabout and if so, (and if the rumour is true...) could this be the roundabout where NBC was seen? Can any of those told that he was seen on the night in question clarify this?

 

[True]

How did all this talk of NBC being at a bus stop begin? What time was he allegedly there, and has this been verified?

Also, fingerprints in this case mean nothing, in the house and also in AND on the cars. They are a family, they all have cause and opportunity to touch inside and on the vehicle.
Only fingerprint that will be valid from any of the family, is one in blood.

 

[Limaes]

IMO there was so much more that they could have done. I know they wouldn't have been allowed to search, but that was only part of it... a very small part of what they could have done.
If it was me, and I was told to keep out of particular search area, I would've found somewhere else to go and search, just incase they were wrong. I would have gone on TV, making sure people knew how important it was that she was found... saying "Surely someone must have seen something!!"
I still can't get past the fact that they didn't do any of this. Some will say, 'well someone had to be there for the kids...' but I'm sure they would have appreciated the fact that Daddy etc were out looking for their mother.

Yes, there was much more they could have done. Allison was a member of their family for many years. If ANYONE helped the killer in anyway, then I hope the cops nail them.

 

[CaseClosed]

Yes, I realise that. However, no one was stopping her from attending the Search Command. To me, her comments such as the one about depression only serve to explain her disappearance rather than solve it. Also sometimes family members make fliers etc to help find their loved one.

Finally, Allison's parents set up a media conference to plead for help finding her. The Police never stop family members doing that. The police cannot be blamed for everything the BCs failed to do. jmo

IMO the sister suspected that she had not just disappeared and that something very serious had happened to her.

 

[SKMA]

I've been wondering if there is a bus stop at the Rafting Ground Rd roundabout and if so, (and if the rumour is true...) could this be the roundabout where NBC was seen? Can any of those told that he was seen on the night in question clarify this?

Not according to my source. He definitely said the bus stop outside the Village (ie. Kenmore Village Shopping Centre on Moggill Road at the top of Brookfield Road).

 

[SKMA]

How did all this talk of NBC being at a bus stop begin? What time was he allegedly there, and has this been verified?

I believe I was the first one to bring it up (well placed legal sources) and no, it hasn't been verified. For all my source knows it's merely idle gossip floating about the legal world, despite the very well respected people he rubs shoulders with. After all, is QC's gossip to be taken any more seriously than anyone else's?

The time they gave was late on the night she went missing (Thursday night). No specifics, sorry.

 

[SydneySleuth]

I was interested in the previous post made by CaseClosed regarding Profiling. So I have found a bit more info that may help. Here is some info I found on 'profiling'. This is an FBI technique that has been adopted around the world. According to my Detective friend in NSW Police, who knows nothing about Allison's case, there are people within NSW Police who have been FBI trained in this technique. It's worth adding that profiling is not the only investigative technique used by Police and I'm not suggesting this technique has been used in this specific case. This is just general information. MOO

Profiling phases

The process this approach uses to determine offender characteristics involves, first, an assimilation phase where all information available in regard to the crime scene, victim, and witnesses is examined. This may include photographs of the crime scene, autopsy reports, victim profiles, police reports, and witness statements.
The next phase, the "classification stage", involves integrating the information collected into a framework which essentially classifies the murderer as "organized" or "disorganized". Organized murderers are thought to have advanced social skills, plan their crimes, display control over the victim using social skills, leave little forensic evidence or clues, and often engage in sexual acts with the victim before the murder. In contrast, the disorganized offender is described as impulsive, with few social skills, such that his/her murders are opportunistic and crime scenes suggest frenzied, haphazard behavior and a lack of planning or attempts to avoid detection. They might engage in sexual acts after the murder, because they lack knowledge of normal sexual behaviour.
Following the classification stage profilers attempt to reconstruct the behavioral sequence of the crime, in particular, attempting to reconstruct the offender's modus operandi or method of committing the crime.
Profilers also examine closely the offender's “signature” which is identifiable from the crime scene and is more idiosyncratic than the modus operandi—the signature is what the offender does to satisfy his psychological needs in committing the crime.
From further consideration of the modus operandi, the offender's signature at the crime scene, and also an inspection for the presence of any staging of the crime, the profiler moves on to generate a profile. This profile may contain detailed information regarding the offender's demographic characteristics, family characteristics, military background, education, personality characteristics, and it may also suggest appropriate interview techniques.

 

[marlywings]

How did all this talk of NBC being at a bus stop begin? What time was he allegedly there, and has this been verified?

This was squizzy's first post...

05-31-2012, 02:07 PM
squizzey1 #773
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 65

new on here and have heard a lot from friends in the area. some interesting points 1. a witness was told ABC was strangled. 2. same witness told there was batwater in lungs.3 same witness saw something strange at roundabout, it was BC senior sitting in bus shelter late that night. 4. has been said all hard drives were blank ,interesting. BUT BC senior computer supposidly googled the scout camp late that night. not known facts just info told to me by friends

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7987628&postcount=773"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15[/ame]

 

[linette]

IMO the sister suspected that she had not just disappeared and that something very serious had happened to her.

Same here. Probably torn between thinking "Is it possible that she really did go missing?" & "Please don't tell me he did it."

To me, in the interview, she had sort of a "What the hell's going on?" look to her, kind of bewildered. That's just my impression.
Similar to what I'd be like if I was defending my child but wasn't really sure they were innocent. Not sure what she knows now, but I don't think she knew anything at the time it happened. JMO

 

[Petro]

Case Closed list of rumour versus fact illuminates how little we really know about the circumstances of Mrs Baden Clays dissappearence.

If there was one question you could ask the Detective in charge of this case (other than simply do yeh reckon he done it?) in other words one of these rumours you would like him to confirm or dismiss, which one woukld it be?

 

[Thinking]

Hi everyone,

There is one big stumbling block for me, with the story of NBC being seen at the roundabout (besides the fact i think it is an odd place to arrange to be picked up as it is so public).

That is, if he was being picked up in order to head out to Anstead, how does this fit with the theory of the two family cars being seen at 4am coming back from Anstead?

Sure, he may have been picked up and taken back to the BC residence, then they headed out to Anstead in the cars. This seems like a weird way to do it though, as nbc's house is closer to the BC residence than the roundabout is, so that would make it a very complicated scenario. He would have been better off to walk towards the bc residence and be picked up along brookfield road somewhere. I do realize they wouldn't have been thinking straight though.

IF he was at the roundabout, I would think he was there to be picked up on the way out to Anstead, yes? So how does the second family car come into it then?

I wonder if Allison did make it home from the hairdresser (or after the dinner out if it occurred) that night?

All speculation and MOO.

 

[EllaN]

How did all this talk of NBC being at a bus stop begin? What time was he allegedly there, and has this been verified?

This was squizzy's first post...

05-31-2012, 02:07 PM
squizzey1 #773
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 65

new on here and have heard a lot from friends in the area. some interesting points 1. a witness was told ABC was strangled. 2. same witness told there was batwater in lungs.3 same witness saw something strange at roundabout, it was BC senior sitting in bus shelter late that night. 4. has been said all hard drives were blank ,interesting. BUT BC senior computer supposidly googled the scout camp late that night. not known facts just info told to me by friends

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15

and don't forget the doorknock by police of senior BC's neighbours. Officer:" Our investigations have brought us back into this area, have you seen or heard anything on the night in question. This is not a rumour, but a fact. Also mentioned somewhere on previous thread(can't remember name of poster or number of thread, sorry too tired to look)

 

[mum73]

Following the classification stage profilers attempt to reconstruct the behavioral sequence of the crime, in particular, attempting to reconstruct the offender's modus operandi or method of committing the crime.

SS I've snipped a bit from your post that really stood out to me. It's this part of "sleuthing" that really draws me in. This is why GBC's initial story to police interests me so much. I believe his actions and way of thinking (if he committed this crime and tried to cover it up), would coincide with what he initially told police (ie what she was wearing; state of mind etc); I then think about what I would have done/said if I wanted others to believe this story.

I believe he wanted police to think she went for a walk and was abducted.

 

[SydneySleuth]

Same here. Probably torn between thinking "Is it possible that she really did go missing?" & "Please don't tell me he did it."

To me, in the interview, she had sort of a "What the hell's going on?" look to her, kind of bewildered. That's just my impression.
Similar to what I'd be like if I was defending my child but wasn't really sure they were innocent. Not sure what she knows now, but I don't think she knew anything at the time it happened. JMO

I just watched that interview again and I agree that the sister looked bewildered. She appeared to be in shock. MOO

 

[marlywings]

If you read onwards from this post...

Yesterday, 02:57 PM
squizzey1 #165
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 65

[Quote:]
Originally Posted by kalamityk
First time poster - I have been following this story from a couple of days after Allison went missing - we were on the Gold Coast that first weekend- there is talk of NBC being at a bus shelter - I have gone back through lots of pages and can't find anything - could someone enlighten me please

That was me some time ago. A local who knows the family saw NBC at the bus shelter late that night{not sure of exact time around 11 or 11.30 I believe}. Since she knew him and it seemed extremely odd she stopped and asked if he was ok {Initially thought he may be drunk} He said he was ok so she let him be. very reliable info. its just i wasnt told the exact time.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8011490#post8011490"]Australia Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #18 - Page 7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Case Closed list of rumour versus fact illuminates how little we really know about the circumstances of Mrs Baden Clays dissappearence.

If there was one question you could ask the Detective in charge of this case (other than simply do yeh reckon he done it?) in other words one of these rumours you would like him to confirm or dismiss, which one woukld it be?

My question, Who do you believe killed Allison and why?..May as well just get to the point if I had that chance...but if I can't ask that. i would like to know what they saw at the house to make them declare a crime scene. And 2. What observations did they make when they discovered Allisons body to make them know how she was killed, before forensic tests and autopsies were performed(ALthough at the same time, that may be something that would be very difficult to hear).

 

[SydneySleuth]

SS I've snipped a bit from your post that really stood out to me. It's this part of "sleuthing" that really draws me in. This is why GBC's initial story to police interests me so much. I believe his actions and way of thinking (if he committed this crime and tried to cover it up), would coincide with what he initially told police (ie what she was wearing; state of mind etc); I then think about what I would have done/said if I wanted others to believe this story.

I believe he wanted police to think she went for a walk and was abducted.

Exactly my thoughts after reading the blurb on profiling. I also wonder if the Police would describe the murder as organised or disorganised? Something we'll never know I guess.