Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 #19

[grannie]

Yes I saw those words but I did not see any media report (unless I missed it which is possible) that said she had water (bath or creek or both) in her lungs. So if you could provide the link for your post I would be most grateful?
:groucho:

Rational, in my post I have even bolded the words theory and possible..

 

[Fergie]

What about this scenario husband , father and mother.
1. Police have already been at house for dv that night .
2. After police leave , dv heats up again and sadly , wife is murdered by husband.
3. Murderer (husband) rings his father for help and mother also hears what has happened. Husband tells them about the whole evening events and the resulting murder . Father and mother faced with son in jail for life , and daughter-in-law dead. They decide that a coverup is their only option to save their son. They need to assist him. The children are having a sleepover and they decide to Leave children home alone and drive to sons home to help. ( take a gamble that it is unlikely theyll wakeup) They both drive in their " golden small 4wd to the husbands house and on the way discuss a plan.
The Plan is hatched at the husbands house, and their only worry is getting caught by police . ( if girls do wake and ring 000 / or neighbours heard murder and ring 000) All 3 have a job. Husband to take body in captiva to hide it near scouts area . Mother and father drive in their car. Father dropped off at roundabout to do spotting ( mother can't be spotter as she would attract too much attention out at night alone) (Need to keep mother and father DNA out of husbands car,and mother can leave quickly with husband if something goes wrong) Mother drives infront of murderer (husband ) so if they drive through RBT she will be stopped he will hopefully be ignored and waved on.
4. Fathers job is alert them if police head out along brookfield rd or moggill rd. Father sits at bus stop as its best view in both directions. ( spotter)
5. Mother and husband drive out to Anstead and finally Dump body at bridge. (2 cars seen)
6. Husband follows mother back to kenmore where she turns off and goes back to her home and to grandkids.
7. Husband picks up father at roundabout and they drive back to murder scene (home ) to cleanup all evidence. Father and son spend next few hours 4am - 7am conspiring and cleaning up.
8. Son rings police .... And tells police his story ( he last saw her when he went to bed at 10pm which was also after the police had been there earlier that thu night)
That's why police so interested in roundabout. The husband, mother and father drove through it so many times that night.
Mother and father are accessories after the fact and husband now needs to clear them. Wanting immunity for them maybe before he will give his statement or gets charged. This is not fact and is written using only my imagination, so don't sue me! lease:

Great post Aunty, love your work and I am impressed with your determination to keep the sleuthing focused on Allison and the case. I don't post very often (even though I have followed every thread) as there is much "noise" and competitive/questionable behaviour but all your posts have stood out as focused and genuinely interested in objectively reviewing the information that has some credibility.

I totally agree with your scenario, the only point I doubt is that the children were left alone for that period of time. It has been confirmed that the children were having a sleepover that night, do we know that the children were at the NBCs that night?

Keep up the great work I look forward to your posts.

 

[kiwi50]

Mr fireworks I don't believe they carried her down...I think they threw her over the side of the bridge to make it appear a suicide. Whoever it was that mentioned bath water being in her lungs....water in lungs would support the notion of suicide without a mark on her.

News reports...no sign of foul play...drowned in my opinion.

But something happened which stuffed the plan of making it appear a suicide.

I go along with the theory of throwing her off the bridge.
This brings us back to the car problem, do you think they wanted her body found, I have no idea, if it was a fluke she was found or if it was very likely.
If they wanted her found, the car had to be nearby.
If they did not want her found, the car had to be found as far away as possible, in a place where she could have wandered off to never to be seen again.
If they did want her found, it seems hard to imagine what could have gone wrong, all they had to do was leave the car near the bridge.

I'm sticking with my theory that the police spoilt the plans by their early arrival.
I think the plan was to deliver the car later in the day, either to the bridge, or somewhere else.
Maybe they didn't want the car to be found too early in the day at the bridge, needed cleaning? buy some time?
All IMO

 

[grannie]

I don't think so Grannie - that only happens in fiction - the police will have to rule out any other scenarios - he has probably been told not to leave the area

Kalamityk, if there was the slightest chance (in the form of some material evidence) that GBC killed his wife, the police would act, because other people are at risk. If GBC went off his rail and kept killing, the police would be held responsible for not preventing crime. It's more serious than it seems. It's in fact a political issue. That's why the police have been given the special rights to arrest anyone just on suspicion of murder, that is before the conclusive evidence has been collected. JMO.

 

[grannie]

It's a misconception because people don't understand the way these companies work. I know that the Australian Taxation Office have investigated them and there have been rulings about it. It is Network Marketing, which is different to pyramid schemes (which are illegal).

A network marketing scheme (the compensation plan part) resembles a pyramid in shape, when visualised, hence the confusion. In actual fact, a network marketing has exactly the same structure as every other sustainable business model. The concept behind network marketing is a distribution model that allows a company to sell their products directly to consumers. Therefore, the main focus of a network marketing company is product distribution.

I wonder if Allison had met many people through this activity (who could assist the police in their investigation).

 

[kalamityk]

Why obviously? If you read my post again, you will see the words "according to the media". We could not possibly know the autopsy results. But if the forensics did find some mismatch in Allison's lungs, would not they arrest GBC straight away?

this is what I was replying to - I think a mismatch in her lungs does not mean GBC is guilty beyond doubt - we don't know what they found - they are not telling.

 

[Fergie]

Sounds like an interesting scenario. Always wondered about mumma bear's possible role in it all. It is possible somebody else may have been called to be with the children or may have been present to care for the children in the event that they wake up etc.MOO.

This is a credible theory, TM called to sit with the kids???

 

[possumheart]

My husband is minister - I can assure you there is no pest exterminator not far away. I think demeaning the sister and her husband who IMO has nothing to do with ABC murder is a bit low myself.

It was code coffeechick. Would make sense to some of GBCs Facebook friends and nobody else. It did sound a bit funny though. Sorry.

 

[kiwi50]

Any ideas what the police would do if they went to a domestic at night ,and there was nobody at home or only one person there who said their spouse had gone for a walk to calm down?
Would they hang around or come back next morning to check?

 

[grannie]

I think a mismatch in her lungs does not mean GBC is guilty beyond doubt -

Let's develop it further. Assume, that the mismatch has been established. Then the next step will be to identify where the water found in the lungs belongs to. After 8pm on Thursday the most likely place would be the bath at home. It will then be fairly straight forward to perform the analyses on all Baden-Clays' baths (I do not know how many bathrooms they had), their tap water, soap and so on. If the samples collected match that found in Allison's lungs, then the arrest should be imminent. There were only two of them in the house.. Some other outcomes are possible, in theory, but they are so unlikely that can be ignored. All IMO.

 

[grannie]

they are not telling.

May be because they have not found anything to tell?

 

[kalamityk]

was it only a rumour that water was found in her lungs ? Maybe she was strangled or hit so hard that she died.....then they wouldn't have found water in her lungs ? maybe who ever put where she was put was counting on her not being found until only dental records could be used for id

 

[Rational]

Rational, in my post I have even bolded the words theory and possible..

Grannie
I do not have an issue with your possible theory or theories. I just want to know where in the media it was stated that her lungs did not contain bath/sea/creek or any kind of water?

 

[kalamityk]

Any ideas what the police would do if they went to a domestic at night ,and there was nobody at home or only one person there who said their spouse had gone for a walk to calm down?
Would they hang around or come back next morning to check?

I would think they might sit outside and wait for something else to happen and or question the neighbours

 

[Rational]

A network marketing scheme (the compensation plan part) resembles a pyramid in shape, when visualised, hence the confusion. In actual fact, a network marketing has exactly the same structure as every other sustainable business model. The concept behind network marketing is a distribution model that allows a company to sell their products directly to consumers. Therefore, the main focus of a network marketing company is product distribution.

I wonder if Allison had met many people through this activity (who could assist the police in their investigation).

:floorlaugh:Thanks Grannie for clarifying that. I can visualise it clearly now.

 

[Keentoknow]

Mr fireworks I don't believe they carried her down...I think they threw her over the side of the bridge to make it appear a suicide. Whoever it was that mentioned bath water being in her lungs....water in lungs would support the notion of suicide without a mark on her.

News reports...no sign of foul play...drowned in my opinion.

But something happened which stuffed the plan of making it appear a suicide.

You are probably right about having to carry her under the bridge....

She would also need to have creek water in her lungs not bath water to make it appear that it was suicide at the creek.

I believe that Allison would have had a frightening death. Whoever did this is the lowest form of human beings.

Best go buy your crackers Marly because it could be any day now.....:what:

 

[grannie]

:floorlaugh:Thanks Grannie for clarifying that. I can visualise it clearly now.

What is so funny? A sustainable business model means the CEO on the top, senior directors at the next level, managers at the next level and so forth, so it looks like a xmas tree pyramid. Something like that:

http://www.how-to-start-a-small-business.com/images/org-structure.jpg

 

[Rational]

What is so funny? A sustainable business model means the CEO on the top, senior directors at the next level, managers at the next level and so forth, so it looks like a xmas tree pyramid. Something like that:

http://www.how-to-start-a-small-business.com/images/org-structure.jpg

You are right granny. All sustainable business structures look like pyramids and therefore people confuse them with pyramid schemes and as a lot of businesses sell products they have distribution networks. I will leave this topic alone from now on.:rocker:

 

[stormbird]

Advice from the Land Search Operations Manual for search and rescue operations in Australia, and I think it's useful for sleuths too:

5.130. Clue recognition and Interpretation: A clue is a fact, an object, information or some type of evidence that helps to solve a mystery or problem. The purpose of seeking clues (gathering all the facts and information) is to assist in the reasoning of a problem and its ultimate solution.

5.131. General principles: The following principles apply:
a. Clue seeking is an ongoing process that starts with planning, continues throughout a mission and doesn't end until the debrief concludes.
b. Clue seeking is a skill and must be practiced to develop a sense of what is the minimum information to work with.
c. Avoid forming opinions and then gathering information to support that opinion.
d. Don't immediately form an opinion about the value of a clue.
e. Gather information from everyone, as no one person can adequately gather all the facts.
f. Assemble a complete profile of the missing subject and the situation, and let it offer direction.

Bolded by me. From Chapter 5: Techniques and Operations, p.122. The whole manual is available in sections and each section is a PDF:
http://natsar.amsa.gov.au/Manuals/Land_Search_Operations_Manual/index.asp

 

[grannie]

Grannie
I do not have an issue with your possible theory or theories. I just want to know where in the media it was stated that her lungs did not contain bath/sea/creek or any kind of water?

I did not say it was stated in the media. According to the media, the police have maintained since the start, they believe that Allison (1) was murdered (2) before she was dumped in the creek and (3) she knew her killer. That tells me that Allison has not drowned. It would take some time to conclude that. So the COD the police won't share with us, is something more obvious than drowning or strangulaton. That leaves a broken neck/back/skull, multiple stub wounds and a gun shot. All IMO.