Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3

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The roundabout measure make it extremely interesting. Someone's version of events is clearly not adding up. Does anyone one know if GBC snr has been questioned by Police? If not then down to GBC/ Mistress and possible business associates.

I am curious about who the partners who loaned $300,000 to the business prior to xmas and left same day were ... might they have been family members?

Who makes up the directors of the company? In other words, who has authority to sign lending documents....were those that did, then left, therefore a motion was past to get new directors and these NEW directors would have had to sign the new lending documents...and maybe one of them didn't want to...maybe one said NO I'VE HAD ENOUGH...I WANT OUT!
 
Could the body have been held or 24 hours or longer in some vacant building somewhere then later dumped whilst police were focussing on searching for Allison in a different area?

I think that would be extremely risky and almost impossible. The whole area was swarming with police, volunteers etc and there were also helicopters going over other areas nearby. Plus the entire region was very conscious of the case by then and the difference in the general feeling around the community was quite noticeable. I just dont think it would have been possible.
 
Who makes up the directors of the company? In other words, who has authority to sign lending documents....were those that did, then left, therefore a motion was past to get new directors and these NEW directors would have had to sign the new lending documents...and maybe one of them didn't want to...maybe one said NO I'VE HAD ENOUGH...I WANT OUT!

You cannot have a contract to lend money if one of the parties doesn't understand or if you the banker feels they are being forced to sign under duress....bankers need to make sure All signing parties fully understand the contracts they are agreeing to or they can loose their jobs! I would have met with abc alone and no way would I have signed off on further lending complications with this business... To me this appears as it could have significance as part of the motive argument more so than the mistress??
 
I think that would be extremely risky and almost impossible. The whole area was swarming with police, volunteers etc and there were also helicopters going over other areas nearby. Plus the entire region was very conscious of the case by then and the difference in the general feeling around the community was quite noticeable. I just dont think it would have been possible.
I keep thinking about him having access to vacant buildings/ real estAte in tge area due to his position....I would expect all properties would have been searched for traces by now anyway
 
Thanks for that link, Bella66!

Just finished watching this one on the same page too!

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...cus-on-road-clue/story-e6frep2f-1226347683137

I've been wondering (like everyone else) what the possible importance of the Kenmore Roundabout is, and this gives just a tiny bit more info.

Edit: Oops, meant to say 'just finished READING'... not watching.



OH MY GOODNESS!!!! This is interesting indeed!!!

POLICE have conducted tests at the western suburbs roundabout central to the investigation into the murder of Brookfield mum Allison Baden-Clay.

Traffic was stopped for about 20 minutes on Friday night so police could time a white vehicle going around the Kenmore roundabout, and driving up Brookfield Rd, where the victim lived.

The roundabout, which is monitored by a CCTV traffic camera, is on the main route between Mrs Baden-Clay's home and the Kholo Creek Bridge on Mt Crosby Rd at Anstead, where her body was found last Monday.
 
Could the departing partners have left C21 joining Oasis - perhaps loaning $300000 on the "understanding" they would recieve finance referrals from C21 .... perhaps the business opportunities did not eventuate. I am just stabbing in the dark really. Trying to consider who else but GBC might be responsible for ABC's death. GBC would not be able to talk about this because it could incriminate himself. I am sure that you will all gather that I am very new to amateur sleuthing and just tossing in ideas into the melting pot.
 
Could the departing partners have left C21 joining Oasis - perhaps loaning $300000 on the "understanding" they would recieve finance referrals from C21 .... perhaps the business opportunities did not eventuate. I am just stabbing in the dark really. Trying to consider who else but GBC might be responsible for ABC's death. GBC would not be able to talk about this because it could incriminate himself. I am sure that you will all gather that I am very new to amateur sleuthing and just tossing in ideas into the melting pot.

Possibly true, but I don't know how this would mean they would kill Allison?
 
I keep thinking about him having access to vacant buildings/ real estAte in tge area due to his position....I would expect all properties would have been searched for traces by now anyway

Yes, true he would have access but he would still have to remove the body from the property without being seen and get it to the disposal site without detection.
 
Well that's it for me tonight. (or rather this morning - it's almost 4am).

It's been a gruelling last day of being on this forum, and the picture of Allisons body under the bridge really has rocked me. A stark reminder of the brutality and callousness of her killer - inexcusable no matter how much stress he was under. Allison was reduced to merely a problem to be overpowered, silenced, and eliminated at all costs, and then an object to be disposed of. Why? simply because the murderer can't stand to face his own deficiencies and failures - what a coward.

I'll finish my posting session with deep respect for Allison, and a prayer for her peace and serenity in the afterlife, floating luminously with the angels, and for comfort and love and the vibrations of their mother to surround her 3 darling girls.
 
Hi all.
So perhaps the in laws had to mortgage their house to help GBC's business. The whole GBC family would be financially involved in the business I would assume?
If GBC was about to file for bankruptcy they would lose their house?
Perhaps Allison wasn't co operating anymore and told them it was their mess to sort out.
A man about to lose his castle could make an angry man or an angry wife?
 
Hi all.
So perhaps the in laws had to mortgage their house to help GBC's business. The whole GBC family would be financially involved in the business I would assume?
If GBC was about to file for bankruptcy they would lose their house?
Perhaps Allison wasn't co operating anymore and told them it was their mess to sort out.
A man about to lose his castle could make an angry man or an angry wife?
I think the finance, or lack of it is behind all this somehow...
I think his credit was so screwed up he had to get others to borrow for him and this included the family and allison....then Allison refusing to sign contracts, and/or she exiting the business which maybe she was the only eligible lender, therefore with her gone the business has to go under....very embarrassing and stressful for gbc .... But now he is really stressed...
 
Hi all
I have read all the threads from the start. There seems to be alot of circumstantial evidence against Gbc. The latest to my knowledge the public are being asked about by the police is anyone around the roundabout between said times to come forward.
So heres my possible feel free to shoot me down
GBC and Abc had an "argument" at home in the evening Thursday it became physical Abc wanted to leave the house maybe gbc withheld her car keys maybe she had been drinking,but anyway she left on foot.
Gbc waits and waits for her return texts and phones people.Maybe leaves his children unattended and goes for a look in his car.
At 7.30 in the morning she hasnt returned and he cant contact her by phone the children need to be getting sorted for school something she would not fail at no matter what their problems were he decides to phone the police the right thing to do.
He tells the police on their arrival that they had argued the night before and had physical fight, there is the police mobilising everything for obvious reasons.Gbc knows he looks guilty as *advertiser censored* so lawyers up.
So what happened to Abc?
She left the house on foot pissed at Gbc around 11pm on a dark no moon night in quite dark clothing when she was struck by a drunk driver.
So Why not a simple hit and run? Because criminals are repeat offenders and he worked out the last time he was caught was because he left the victim next to his smashed headlight this time he removed her from the scene.
 
G’day folks,

..first time poster but I have read a good deal of the interesting posts over the past week but not all of them in detail. I can't be 100% if what I'm about to touch upon here has already been covered but I hope it helps.

This crime cuts through all demographics. It is an attack on all mothers and hence all of us.

I am inclined to think the person and/or persons who did this, did panic but still managed to regain some level of composure, mindful enough to separate Allison’s from her cell phone but not smart enough or did not have time to disable it. The phone’s strong signal target zone was close to that traffic circle.

What a coincidence re: that SIM card, even though it has been ruled out ? So close to the bridge. As someone mentioned here a few days ago it could be a ruse to divert the investigation. There were some very clear close up shots of the sim card in the media and it did not appear to be soiled or been left there for days - it looked very clean to me.

Here's the main reason for my post , time could be of essence:-

Drivers who used that traffic circle on that night/morning pertaining to the police appeal might not have noticed or recalled see anything untoward. However if your vehicle is equipped with a dashboard camera ( some kits come with rear view too - not to be confused with cameras that aid with reversing), it just might have captured something you did not see. Not just at the traffic circle but also perhaps anywhere between Brookfield and Kholo Creek bridge or even after that bridge. Perhaps a stationary vehicle on or near that bridge.

Lots of these cameras can store images and video footage with time and GPS location and have good night vision capability. They can also store high resolution images and sound for weeks on end. So if you were in that vicinity by that traffic circle or drove over that bridge, did not see anything but have such a device in your vehicle, think again, and please take the time and trouble to check out the images your vehicle’s camera might have captured. Do this quickly before the images get overwritten as it has been some time since Allison went missing. Useful footage may even been taken a day or few hours before she went missing.

Some of these cameras can be configured to automatically capture images continuously or are motion activated even while a vehicle is parked. If you had a vehicle with such a device in a car parked in the area on that night/morning please check .

If you have dashboard camera footage of any of the areas/roads involving Allison's disappearance but can't spot anything abnormal give it to the police because they have a good eye for the hidden as long as the footage was taken during that night and morning or even plus or minus a day before and she was reported missing and found respectively. The police might be able to spot something you missed.

Don’t be afraid to getting involved if your vehicle’s camera has indeed captured images that might be of great interest to the police. Don’t let the culprit/culprits get away with this.

You can maintain privacy by anonymously uploading these images to crime stoppers via email or simply posting it on a new thumb drive them. Make copies and please be careful not to accidentally delete whilst retrieving them. If unsure of how to retrieve footage get someone to help out or take it to the police.

Do buses in QLD come equipped with such cameras ?

I feel it was Allison's spirit that led the canoeist to her body.
 
Hi all - been reading avidly the last few days but only just got posting rights. Like many others here I've never even thought to look at a crime forum before, but this event has really had an impact here in Brisbane. And the lack of new details in the media, or any details beyond the initial missing report, was really starting to stand out (presumably because of the police gag on media and trigger happy lawyers). It's actually amazing how much restraint the media have shown, although it's become very interesting reading between the lines. But that dearth of information (and the necessarily slow pace of the police investigation) was driving me crazy so I googled and ended up here. And thank you all for your great minds and ideas.

Have accumulated so many thoughts in reading all this I don't know where to start. A couple of bits of local knowledge I'd like to add first:

(1) It's been particularly cold for Brisbane this time of year - during the time Allison was missing we had the coldest April day on record. Really can't see her going out for a walk in that outfit shown on the police dummy. Certainly not at night, and even if you went at 7am you'd have a sweater at least (and longer pants?).

(2) Just a note re the trust fund the grandparents are setting up for the girls - really need to explain that in the context of local culture. The idea of Allison wanting her girls to go to IGGS isn't about status or exclusivity, but more a matter of a proud tradition of generations of girls following their mothers at a school renowned for its educational standards. The school has a very strong old girls association, who provide a lot for the school, including scholarships. Allison grew up in Redbank, which is not a posh suburb by any means, and her parents would have worked very hard to send her there. And they'd want her girls to have the same opportunities, with the idea that it's one thing they can do to make sure they get a decent chance in life after all this, and clearly something Allison would have wanted even if she had lived.

(More local info to add about the bridge but i'll put that in another post with a content warning.)
 
Hi all
I have read all the threads from the start. There seems to be alot of circumstantial evidence against Gbc. The latest to my knowledge the public are being asked about by the police is anyone around the roundabout between said times to come forward.
So heres my possible feel free to shoot me down
GBC and Abc had an "argument" at home in the evening Thursday it became physical Abc wanted to leave the house maybe gbc withheld her car keys maybe she had been drinking,but anyway she left on foot.
Gbc waits and waits for her return texts and phones people.Maybe leaves his children unattended and goes for a look in his car.
At 7.30 in the morning she hasnt returned and he cant contact her by phone the children need to be getting sorted for school something she would not fail at no matter what their problems were he decides to phone the police the right thing to do.
He tells the police on their arrival that they had argued the night before and had physical fight, there is the police mobilising everything for obvious reasons.Gbc knows he looks guilty as *advertiser censored* so lawyers up.
So what happened to Abc?
She left the house on foot pissed at Gbc around 11pm on a dark no moon night in quite dark clothing when she was struck by a drunk driver.
So Why not a simple hit and run? Because criminals are repeat offenders and he worked out the last time he was caught was because he left the victim next to his smashed headlight this time he removed her from the scene.

that sounds plausible, except Gerard Baden-Clay maintains the last time he saw his wife was 10 pm when he went to bed. He never told police anything about a physical fight, as far as we know.

Additionally if police think they are seeking a drunk driver, they seem to think they were driving one of the family cars, as it's these vehicles that have been publicly noted as being of interest.
 
Content warning: gets into unpleasant forensic issues

(3)(1) Re the position of Allison's body under bridge. It's unlikely she would have been thrown off the bridge itself - it's only a narrow 2-lane bridge, so parking anywhere on it, long enough to drag a body out and over would be very risky and look very suss to anyone driving past (and it's the sort of area where someone might stop to see if you needed help). Would be more likely for perp to park in the trees (there's a track off to the side) and drag her in from there. The position where she was found looks like the water's edge at high tide.

Of course there's always the upstream possibility. I can't imagine 11 days passing without anyone else seeing her in that spot if she'd been there all along. And it's interesting that the police haven't called for possible witnesses driving over the bridge that night. Maybe they already realise she wasn't thrown from bridge. I guess they'll be able to tell from drag marks, analysing the soil under the body (various chemicals will be found if the body lay there for a while) and insect activity (different bugs at diff stages of growth depending on whether she was in the water most of the time or not). If she was in the river you'd expect the body to sink initially, then pop to the surface after a few days because of gas production.

As far as getting evidence off the body goes, it would be beyond fingerprints, possibly not even nails. If she scratched her attacker's face, and possibly chest, that would point to possible strangulation, and if this is the case, there are bones and cartilage in neck that typically show damage, which should still be able to be seen, even if soft tissue is too far gone.

Ugh - I've been wanting to pass on this info for a while now but it's not fun to write.
 
imo, the theory there is business/finance/more than one person associated with Allison's murder is unlikely.

Based on accounts of dealings with him, GBC is an egotist, who fell on his feet by joining the real estate industry during an unprecedented boom in Queensland (maybe strategically, or possibly just dumb luck). As someone pointed out, a drunk monkey could have made a fortune during the boom time. Now, the game is for real adults, and the industry is in the doldrums. Anyone who was getting by on luck and half-truths would be well and truly screwed. Rather than learn the proven footslog methods of selling real estate, Gerard has got by thinking writing a self-inflating blog and joining every committee and sub-committee in the area makes him and his business 'popular'. However, just look at the sold properties for the last couple of years, and see how many times Century 21 Westside features. (save time, it's not many at all). Unfortunately for Gerard, the local community (or at least those selling houses) weren't impressed by the ravings of a yellow-jacketed pinhead (no offence Pinhead on here ;-))

He moved to rent in Brookfield to hang where the well-heeled are. He was never really accepted - the long term Brookfield types would say 'Baden-who?' despite him thinking he had 'arrived'. He probably got himself on the School P&C for the same reasons he joined the local Chamber of Commerce - everyone look at me - I am 'the man'. The family was known in school and church community. Fortunately most of the perception of the Baden-Clay name in the local community came from people's dealings with Allison. Strange, and typical, that most of the positive impressions about the Baden-Clay 'dynasty' actually came from dealings with the Dickie girl from Redbank. Even Brookfield snoots have no time for people who hang their hat on what their great grandfather's second cousin's sister did, but they do appreciate nice, happy, honest people (despite gossipping about them at every opportunity).

Rumour has it a female showed sufficient poor judgment to allow this 'gentleman' to be intimate with her on a regular basis, outside his marriage. What could force a woman to stoop this low (Allison had an excuse because this was a man she betrothed her entire life to) is unknown. My guess is she's hit the 40's, without partner, been caking on the makeup, had limited joy on the dating scene, busy with work, made to feel important, so no biggie to lie down and take it - let's face it, a son in the dynasty they keep talking about - he should be great in the sack, if nothing else, even if he exhibits some effeminate characteristics. But, could be worse, who could she be hurting? (she now knows the answer to that question).

Affair exposed. Business completely stuffed. No more banging on chest saying 'look at me, I'm a big man on campus'. GBC would be feeling very exposed and vulnerable compared to the way daddy has told him 'stare fear in the eye son, that beautiful rare African cat stared at me and I blew it's face clean off - and I dropped a zebra from 20 paces then wore it's skin as a coat - THAT'S what makes a man young Gerard". (this imagined conversation is purely conjecture and I made it up - I have an idea how Bwana talks but pleased to say I have never had to listen to a long speech on his view of the world, a world where hanging remnants of a previously beautiful free creature on a wall is seen as a 'welcome to my home'). Sorry mods if you feel this is an attack on someone ... the behaviour is not typical in our community and deserves to be highlighted as unusual and unacceptable in this particular society.

If the poster who mentioned the couple have been in counselling was right, the couple's counsellor would have a lot if information (possibly given to police - not sure how patient confidentiality works there when police investigation involved). Counselling threatens typical males, because the whole Mars vs Venus thing makes it an uncomfortable experience. Men want to move on/forget it, women want to talk it out and get in touch with the emotions behind it. It's likely the counsellor would have pointed out the way Gerard has been told to behave that makes him a big man, is actually not appropriate in modern society. They probably pointed out Gerard has a responsibility to change his behaviour. Whether Gerard has come clean about the things making him feel inadequate or not is unknown. My guess is the outward Gerard shown, even to the counsellor, is not the real Gerard. To be asked to discuss issues every night (if this is what happened as a poster claimed) could possibly be belittling or infuriating. If these issues are true - running out of money, been caught out being unfaithful, spending time on big-noting positions of authority instead of being a husband and father at home - having to talk around Allison's feelings about these would lead to arguments, which could be the same arguments neighbours heard. IMO.

I don't think gullible financiers, parents, past (or present) mistresses or anyone else has been a party to the arguments (although they were probably discussed).

If one of these arguments escalated to something which caused serious harm being done to Allison, it's up to police to prove who did this and how. It remains to be seen if her husband is the sort of weak-spined coward who would hit or harm a woman. Nothing so far has proven that, although plenty of people have suggested it's likely. If there is any history of domestic violence, things look very bleak for him.

Slightly off the topic, I look at weak-willed spoiled brats like Matthew Newton, who smashes innocent people in the face then curls up in the foetal position next to them to say how much he is hurt too, and asking to please not say anything, he won't do it again. Then 3 days later he does the same thing to them or someone else. Why he comes to mind in this case, I'm not sure.

Remember it's taken something like 8 years to finally try the suspect in the murder of the Singh children, and they had a footprint and a bunch of obvious lies and inconsistencies in the suspect's story.

Allison's case is likely to take some time before enough evidence is gathered to identify and charge her killer. In my opinion it is only one person, acting alone, in an unplanned attack where things went horribly wrong. I think the fact police have interviewed 'numerous' people means they believe a lot of people know enough about the likely suspect's movements to put together a very solid confirmation about what exactly happened on the night Allison was killed and dumped.
 
Allison's case is likely to take some time before enough evidence is gathered to identify and charge her killer. In my opinion it is only one person, acting alone, in an unplanned attack where things went horribly wrong. I think the fact police have interviewed 'numerous' people means they believe a lot of people know enough about the likely suspect's movements to put together a very solid confirmation about what exactly happened on the night Allison was killed and dumped.

Thank you for your summation Keyboredom. With regard to the roundabout, and assuming that he took that route to Kholo Creek, I wonder why he chose it in preference to a most likely quicker route along Rafting Ground Road and then turning right onto Moggill Road. Do you have any ideas on that? Do you think her mobile phone could be somewhere via that roundabout route?
 
imo, the theory there is business/finance/more than one person associated with Allison's murder is unlikely.

Based on accounts of ...

Great post. Was like a visit from Hunter S. Thompson for a moment there. Covers some of the psych stuff i'm just writing up atm but yours is a lot more entertaining.

yeah I agree - you don't really need to go looking too far for motives or a reason for an argument. Couple fights start over the most trivial things at the best of times - if there's resentment and emotional issues simmering away, plus ongoing tensions, it only takes a scratch to set things off.

I actually think the "mistress" thing is trivial - Allison had worse things to worry about. As her best friend said "She told me things, I should have done more"
(http://www.smh.com.au/national/frie...s-i-should-have-done-more-20120504-1y489.html)
 
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