Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3

[Neuromancer]

The other thing I would like to revisit is the assumption we seem to have taken on, that there has been ongoing domestic abuse. I can't recall whether we had any support for this assumption - or are we only guessing?

Although it can be deduced from personalities and demeanors, her best friend said to reporter "She told me things, I should have done more".
(http://www.smh.com.au/national/frien...504-1y489.html)
Press has avoided elaborating beyond that for the moment.

 

[True]

I actually just spoke to someone who knows what they are talking about.... My husband.

He said estate agents might recommend a Mortgage broker but no one in their right minds would use a mortgage broker recommended by the estate agent who was selling them their house. This is why independent mortgage brokers thrive.

RE agents are more likely to steer you towards building inspectors, contractors, valuers, pest control etc...

Maybe GBC was silly enough to put too much effort into financing the homes he sold and went broke. ie stealing off Peter to pay Paul? Eventually the bubble would bust, and depending how many homes he financed this could be a real mess.

 

[Sprinter]

I took the liberty of taking a screen capture of the video and enlarged it slightly in Photoshop. If you right click the image and save it to your computer, you should be able to zoom a little more. Firstly, I must say, this image makes me terribly sad and I did hesitate to post it. Not only seeing the image of ABC's body but also the Police who were involved in the recovery of her body is very distressing.

I personally cannot see that Allison's hands are bound but what does surprise me is the position of where her body came to rest. It seems very high up on the bank. As has already been mentioned, it was close to high tide at 3:00am on the Friday morning but when her body was discovered 11 days later it was a low tide. I do feel that her body was dumped further upstream and was washed down by heavy rain during that time.

I am not sure that Allisons body can be seen, I think it has been blurred out but you can see the policeman standing there.

 

[Neuromancer]

Some notes on narcissism that you may find enlightening.

Narcissists are self-centred, arrogant, manipulative, grandiose, envious, lacking empathy and abusive when challenged.

Narcissists create a false (superior) sense of self because they perceive their true self as inadequate. They spend their time telling the world how good they are, and belittle the genuine achievements of others whom they envy.

It's common for narcissistic males to be attracted to successful women, a 'prize' who is then slowly ground down into submission. In this way the narcissist 'proves' his superiority by domination. If a woman is not a victim when she first hooks up with a narcissist, she will be if she stays.

Narcissistic families tend to reproduce more narcissists and victims - usually the favoured child (N) and lesser (V) - as the dynamic is passed through generations.

Narcissists require constant sources of 'narcissistic supply' - basically ego boosts and positive attention, often drained from romantic partners. While they desperately need their supply source (as much as they try to belittle them), they also deeply resent their partner because of their own dependence. After all, the narcissistic likes to think of themselves as needing nothing and no one. If they lose their source of supply, they must desperately find another (eg take on a lover, seek more outward recognition, get a bigger office) and if it can't be obtained, they can fall into depression, making Narcissistic Personality Disorder a somewhat manic-depressive existence.

Their response to a narcissistic injury – a threat to their inflated sense of self-worth (eg being fired, being criticised) is 'narcissistic rage', which can range from cold aloofness and plans of revenge, to violent outbursts, fuelled by self-hatred, and often directed at their main source of narcissistic supply.

 

[True]

Very high up on the bank. That looks well over a metre. No way our recent rains could do that.

 

[oreily85]

Ive read 95% of all the posts on my phone, so im hoping I havent missed one which answers this question:

I have a problem with Allisons phone missing. I asked myself, why would it have "disappeared" Then after reading this test at the roundabout I am wondering if some calls were made off her phone around the time the car in question was seen/assumed to have been there? Thereby putting her not at home watching the footy show but either her, or at the very least her phone was not where it should have been.

Could the person responsible have called someone and not used their own phone thinking it would never be discovered if Allisons phone disappeared? Would be a very good reason to dispose of it if one is under the impression those calls would never be found out about?

Just a thought.

 

[PolyDot]

Very high up on the bank. That looks well over a metre. No way our recent rains could do that.

looks like thrown over bridge ...

 

[Completelyconfused]

I have been reading this since day 1. I am so sad about this whole event.

With regards to the BC family and their strange antics - I think if you look at when and where they occurred they were in fact a distraction for something else. I think when the "granny pash" occurred for example it was to distract us from something or someone else getting in or out of the car. I think it happened the day ABC's body was discovered - remember we never saw GBC come out of C21. I think he was in the boot of the car and got out at his parents house. Weird as they have been behaving I feel it is only to try and distract the media and public. I can only imagine what that family is going through. They are a close knit family clearly supporting GBC and the girls. The fear and suspicion must be there but they can't ask the questions because that would indicate they thought it was possible.

The media, community and police it seems have made up their minds regarding GBC's guilt. I am concerned about this - yes I think he's behaved strangely and yes there are massive holes in his story however what if it wasn't him? His life is then destroyed completely. How do you recover from that? I am also concerned that if he is guilty how do we get a jury for trial?

I live out here and the gossip and speculation is rampant - everyone knows someone who knows someone who knows something. I've heard all sorts of things some of which have been posted and others which have not been. Ultimately though he did it or he didn't. the evidence will show the way in that. We cannot simply decide his guilt because of his demeanour and behaviour. I keep thinking about Lindy Chamberlain and how she was vilified and convicted simple because she didn't seem upset enough (and a few key pieces of evidence were wrong) GBC is not guilty simply because we don't like him.

I say this not because I think you are all wrong but because I think some of the theories have become way too far fetched and over the top and I think the frustration that this hasn't been solved instantly is getting to everyone. I think we can identify with ABC because she's a mum who desperately loved those girls and by all accounts had an unhappy marriage. She wasn't involved in crime or drugs or anything that would usually link her in to what we see as dangerous behaviour. Whether this was premeditated, spur of the moment or accidental and from someone outside - ABC is still gone from her wonderful girls and they will never have her hugs and words guiding them through life again. Her family and I mean her extended family as well is struggling to come to grips with what has happened and I have to say I would hope if something happened to my precious family I hope my behaviour wasn't going to be tooth combed because I can't say exactly how I would react.

My name suggest I'm completely confused because I have to say I am!!

 

[PolyDot]

Ive read 95% of all the posts on my phone, so im hoping I havent missed one which answers this question:

I have a problem with Allisons phone missing. I asked myself, why would it have "disappeared" Then after reading this test at the roundabout I am wondering if some calls were made off her phone around the time the car in question was seen/assumed to have been there? Thereby putting her not at home watching the footy show but either her, or at the very least her phone was not where it should have been.

Could the person responsible have called someone and not used their own phone thinking it would never be discovered if Allisons phone disappeared? Would be a very good reason to dispose of it if one is under the impression those calls would never be found out about?

Just a thought.

Yes good thought .. but who would he call? usually DV doesnt involve others - he wouldnt ask for help /too weak /in control ...they would have come forward by now unlike him less to lose ..

 

[PolyDot]

I have been reading this since day 1. I am so sad about this whole event.

With regards to the BC family and their strange antics - I think if you look at when and where they occurred they were in fact a distraction for something else. I think when the "granny pash" occurred for example it was to distract us from something or someone else getting in or out of the car. I think it happened the day ABC's body was discovered - remember we never saw GBC come out of C21. I think he was in the boot of the car and got out at his parents house. Weird as they have been behaving I feel it is only to try and distract the media and public. I can only imagine what that family is going through. They are a close knit family clearly supporting GBC and the girls. The fear and suspicion must be there but they can't ask the questions because that would indicate they thought it was possible.

The media, community and police it seems have made up their minds regarding GBC's guilt. I am concerned about this - yes I think he's behaved strangely and yes there are massive holes in his story however what if it wasn't him? His life is then destroyed completely. How do you recover from that? I am also concerned that if he is guilty how do we get a jury for trial?

I live out here and the gossip and speculation is rampant - everyone knows someone who knows someone who knows something. I've heard all sorts of things some of which have been posted and others which have not been. Ultimately though he did it or he didn't. the evidence will show the way in that. We cannot simply decide his guilt because of his demeanour and behaviour. I keep thinking about Lindy Chamberlain and how she was vilified and convicted simple because she didn't seem upset enough (and a few key pieces of evidence were wrong) GBC is not guilty simply because we don't like him.

I say this not because I think you are all wrong but because I think some of the theories have become way too far fetched and over the top and I think the frustration that this hasn't been solved instantly is getting to everyone. I think we can identify with ABC because she's a mum who desperately loved those girls and by all accounts had an unhappy marriage. She wasn't involved in crime or drugs or anything that would usually link her in to what we see as dangerous behaviour. Whether this was premeditated, spur of the moment or accidental and from someone outside - ABC is still gone from her wonderful girls and they will never have her hugs and words guiding them through life again. Her family and I mean her extended family as well is struggling to come to grips with what has happened and I have to say I would hope if something happened to my precious family I hope my behaviour wasn't going to be tooth combed because I can't say exactly how I would react.

My name suggest I'm completely confused because I have to say I am!!

I agree with you he is not guilty BECAUSE ....ie he is unlikeable, or his family odd, or grandparents kissing ,or scouts, or link with liberals , or money,or real estate ALL of that is just a distraction and certainly doenst make me think he is guilty. people are different react differently etc..

Why i think it was him was BECAUSE
......99% of women murdered -were killed by intimate partners
It is much more likely that he killed he, than a completey unrelated person picked her up while she walking and murdered her
That is why I think he did it .. the story fits .. usually the most simple explanation is correct ...

 

[Virgo]

This is the CCTV camera view:

What I've just realized is that you cannot actually see the section of the roundabout coming down Moggill Road and exiting onto Brookfield Road.

If this is the complete area that camera records then you can only see cars coming from the direction of Indooroopilly (but not whether they continue on up Moggill Rd or Brookfield Rd) and cars coming from Brookfield Rd and either going straight through towards Indooroopilly or continuing through the roundabout (again you cannot see whether they continue on up Moggill Rd or circle the roundabout back to Brookfield Rd.)

Hope that's not too confusing. You basically can't see either Brookfield Rd itself or Moggill Rd heading out towards Kenmore/Khollo Creek.

This would certainly explain why QPS are able to identity some cars but not all.

On the pole there is another camera facing up Moggill road outbound as well as the inbound one. Not sure of it's purpose or even if it is in use. I had a really good look at it driving through there yesterday.

 

[oreily85]

Yes good thought .. but who would he call? usually DV doesnt involve others - he wouldnt ask for help /too weak /in control ...they would have come forward by now unlike him less to lose ..

Weak, yes. Exactly why the person responsible may have called someone, out of the horror of what happened. I dont believe only the person responsible knows what happened. This is not something you could keep to yourself surely?

After the fact, I believe someone may have been called by whoever did it in a "OMG what the hell have I done" panic mode.

 

[Desperate Housewife]

I'm another one who has been sitting back and reading these threads. As a Brisbane person this case is fascinating as normally I am reading things on WebSleuths that happen in the US. This case is basically occurring in my backyard (I live about 25 minutes away) and that is what is so hard for Brisbane people to get their head around. This sort of thing doesn't often occur here but of late we've had some major crime happening including shootings, extended car chases, and now this.

I believe, though, that whilst the majority of people here are doing the right thing and discussing what is known to try to make sense of this senseless tragedy that some are letting the rumours and innuendos take over the judgement. This also concerns me, as it does others, that a fair trial may not be able to occur due to people already being in a certain mindset. I agree with the previous posters who used Lindy Chamberlain and Dennis Ferguson as examples of this. Both Lindy and Dennis were convicted in the media prior to court cases which devalued the process.

I think we all need to just discuss what we know and wait for the police to do what they do best - catch the culprit. Until they make an arrest we should all keep open minds so as not to ruin the chances of justice prevailing.

 

[missfisher]

Here's a theory - I posted earlier that it was possible for there to be an unwitting 2nd person - lured out to "watch the kids while I search for my crazy wife who's stormed off".

I wonder did neighbours see any cars at the house that night that didn't belong to the household?

I suspect we would have heard if police had been alerted by neighbours to the argument and had attended a "domestic disturbance" - but imagine if they had turned up and found a 3rd party there childminding?

You can bet that in the morning when the disappearance was phoned in, that the 3rd party would have undergone some intensive interviewing.

 

[Neuromancer]

Thank you for your summation Keyboredom. With regard to the roundabout, and assuming that he took that route to Kholo Creek, I wonder why he chose it in preference to a most likely quicker route along Rafting Ground Road and then turning right onto Moggill Road. Do you have any ideas on that? Do you think her mobile phone could be somewhere via that roundabout route?

Maybe it could also have been to do with some internal rationale created for the drive in case of being seen too - "oh I was just popping up to the servo for milk" or whatever. Or maybe the destination hadn't been decided yet?

 

[Virgo]

This is interesting - but would be interested in any possible conclusions people might glean from it. It says:

"Traffic was stopped for about 20 minutes on Friday night so police could time a white vehicle going around the Kenmore roundabout, and driving up Brookfield Rd, where the victim lived."

So I wonder if they are thinking about the vehicle driving from the roundabout to their home, or to the roundabout from their home? Obviously the time taken is exactly the same, but just wondering (as usual) what the reasoning is - why the actual time is so important? I suppose piecing together other facts such as mobile phone records etc gives them a way of narrowing down when she died and when her body was dumped.

The whole issue of the roundabout is interesting, because if she was killed at her home and the body taken to Kholo Creek the back way from there, the murderer would never have gone anywhere near the roundabout.
.

Early on everyone on the forum assumed the vehicle was travelling outbound and was talking about why he would go that way through the roundabout to dump her body on Mt Crosby Road. Maybe the police intentionally timing the car travelling towards their home was to make people aware that this is the direction they are interested in gaining further information on. Maybe like most of us, the public are all assuming they are looking for information on outbound not inbound traffic. Just a thought...

 

[PolyDot]

Weak, yes. Exactly why the person responsible may have called someone, out of the horror of what happened. I dont believe only the person responsible knows what happened. This is not something you could keep to yourself surely?

After the fact, I believe someone may have been called by whoever did it in a "OMG what the hell have I done" panic mode.

possibily in terms that he doenst think he is responsible for her death ie she deserved it , she pushed me too far, she did..whatever.

I tink you coudl still find out from servers time of calls and who there were to - but maybe not the content - what was said, txts etc and it may be he was trying to get rid of evidence where she txted her friend about him -or maybe he thought she had even if she hadnt

 

[Virgo]

This is the CCTV camera view:

Kenmore Village shopping centre is on the left. A garage is on the right across the roundabout. Directly beside the camera to the right is a small shopping centre. Kenmore Plaza is further along Moggill Road inbound - McDonalds is located near the Plaza.

 

[True]

As I sit up happily in my bed, surrounded by my children on this Mothers Day, I am overcome by a wave of grief for Allison, her children and her parents. This will be an especially hard day for them. She should be with her family right now and someone has taken that away from them all.

This whole site is full of missing children and their parents, it's just so sad. May they ALL get justice.

 

[True]

As I sit up happily in my bed, surrounded by my children on this Mothers Day, I am overcome by a wave of grief for Allison, her children and her parents. This will be an especially hard day for them. She should be with her family right now and someone has taken that away from them all.

This whole site is full of missing children and their parents, it's just so sad. May they ALL get justice.