Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #4

[Kimster]

let's hope once they get results from the trace evidence, they will be OVERLOADED with evidence...suspect is probably betting everything he has on hoping evidence is washed away, or disguised by the elements in the 11 days she was exposed. But as Hawkins pointed out earlier, the injuries and evidence on a body can obviously tell a very loud tale

Also something that's been on my mind, could the body have been moved to bridge at a later date than the night in question? It would be an impossible task if you were under surveillance, but it would make TOD very hard to determine if you didn't know how long she may have been protected from elements and exposed to elements, especially with all the rain that week

I have not heard of many bodies being moved very often, unless it was in the snow. From what I've been told, because the remains usually have a strong odor plus the body fluids are being released in the first month, it isn't easy to move the body without being detected. She wasn't wrapped in anything, IIRC?

 

[itsthevibe]

Is Gerard involved in the government?

Did Allison's family ever mention Gerard being violent in the past?

He is a realtor with some local connections in the conservative Government (ie the US version of Republican). But more so the State & Municipal representatives. I think he developed and nurtured these himself for business purposes. There was a newspaper article with comments from a former conservative Federal MP saying that Gerard would make a great Member of Parliament, however that Federal MP was not very popular himself and had also had some legal questions of impropriety over his name, so those comments didnt have much credibility.

As for violence, someone on the very first Phase of this thread who claimed to know people in Allisons circle of friends, came and posted a few things she had been told. This is not proven fact of course, but seemed quite credible to me. (which doesnt mean it's true but it did seem like a measured, sensible post, not from someone prone to raving on with outlandish gossip). This poster said that Allison had found out about Gerards affair last year, he had said it was over, but that Allison recently found out thjis year that it was still on. Also that there had been conflict between them and due to this and the affair they were sleeping in separate rooms, having counselling and had to have a discussion each night.

There was some mention of possible domestic violence and an AVO against him (Apprehended Violence Order) but not sure if this was mentioned by the same person or someone else. This may or may not be true. Someone else recently posted they had heard there was abuse but it was "mainly verbal". None of this is proven or officially acknowledged, however Allison's friend was quoted in a newspaper article (will try to find the quote) something like 'she told me something, I should have done more'. If the AVO is true, it would explain further why the police responded so quickly and mounted such an extensive search so quickly.

 

[minni]

IMO he is in fear alright but of who?

absolutely my thoughts, as I said earlier...he is clearly lying in that video, but that is not to say he is lying for himself...he could either be protecting someone he loves maybe, or scared of someone and lying for them...and again WHO IS PAYING FOR HIS LEGAL DEFENSE? someone must be, how could he afford any of it AT ALL? as for being scared of someone, who would be on that list? I can imagine he would be scared of his father, or people he owed money to, or being exposed for something awful he did

 

[marlywings]

Curiouser and curiouser....

Seems like many of the women who have been going missing in the States lately have not been found at all. Was Gerard familiar with the area where Allison's remains were found?

He's a real estate salesman in that area.

Plus, his great great grandaddy was the very famous Baden-Powell who originally began the worldwide scouting organization.

GBC has also been involved at some time with the scouts movement.

Further up from where Allison's body was found is a large scout camp.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Curiouser and curiouser....

Seems like many of the women who have been going missing in the States lately have not been found at all. Was Gerard familiar with the area where Allison's remains were found?

Yes very likely he would have been. He is involved in scouting movement. There is scouting grounds close vicinity to where the body was found, but also it is within the wider local area to where the family lives.. not sure how many kilometers? anyone?

 

[Kimster]

Gotcha! I was wondering how scouts got into the mix!

 

[Obsessor]

Police can't just photogrpah or order the examination of a person. They need a warrant or consent. His lawyers will have resisted. A refusal to submit to such an examination without a warrant cannot later be used as evidence of a consciousness of guilt on the part of an accused. Usually a forensic pathologist will look for signs of defensive wounds on the corpse and investigators will look for possible defensive wounds on suspects. If GBC has consented to examination then they will have photographed the alleged scratches and measured them, noting the depth at each end and making calculations as to the force and angle of the object(s) which caused the trauma. The data from these examinations can often give a very reliable indication as to the height of the person who inflicted the wounds and whether they were offensive or defensive. Facial and torso scratches are very often seen on assailants who strangle a person either by hand or by means of a ligature. There are very often deeper lacerations on the scalp under the hair. This is less often the case where the strangulation takes place on the ground, but not unheard of. If done while standing up, rater than prone, the assailant wil have had both hands occupied and not have been able to use their kness to restraint the victim's arms. Apart from DNA evidence under the nails of the deceased, there can also be nail polish and other chemicals found in the scratches. Without a ligature it takes quite a while to asppyxiate someone and the panic reflex can give the victim enormous strength from adrenlaine release. If strangled while standing up, there can often also be bruises around the legs and groin of the assailant from blows from the victim's legs.

Wow, your posts are so informative and fascinating. Thankyou for providing this to us.

 

[marlywings]

His very own words might come back to bite him....


April 27, 2012

FOR Gerard Baden-Clay, honesty has always been the best policy.
In his online blogs, his company profiles and in his capacity as a real estate industry leader, it's a topic he revisits over and over.

"In business, it's simple: never lie," he told The Courier-Mail in 2008.

"For starters, it's the wrong thing to do but secondly you will always get caught out and usually when you least expect it.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...built-on-honesty/story-e6freoof-1226340594889

 

[CaseClosed]

It was reported he hired a criminal lawyer on the day he reported her missing.

A week or so later he hired a barrister also.

Someone indicated yesterday that he hired the lawyer after he had the accident driving the friend's car, i.e. 2 days after the wife went missing. The Barrister came into the picture I believe after the body was found.

 

[Paradox11]

Yes very likely he would have been. He is involved in scouting movement. There is scouting grounds clsoe vicinity to where the body was found, but also it is within the wider local area to where the family lives.. not sure how many kilometers? anyone?

I'm pretty sure the Kholo bridge where she was found is 14km away from the home, but I could only find this article that says it is "more than 10km from her home"

http://www.news.com.au/national/hop...d-at-kholo-creek/story-e6frfkvr-1226343535002

 

[Scarlett Contessa 89]

I see! So...if she was aiming at arriving there around 8.30am to set up, that would mean she would have to leave home at 7.30am at the latest?

GBC would have known what time she had to leave due to traffic conditions, why didn't he become concerned sooner that she wasn't home from her morning walk by 7.30?

Interesting.

 

[Thinking]

absolutely my thoughts, as I said earlier...he is clearly lying in that video, but that is not to say he is lying for himself...he could either be protecting someone he loves maybe, or scared of someone and lying for them...and again WHO IS PAYING FOR HIS LEGAL DEFENSE? someone must be, how could he afford any of it AT ALL? as for being scared of someone, who would be on that list? I can imagine he would be scared of his father, or people he owed money to, or being exposed for something awful he did

I have heard that GBC did his schooling in Toowoomba (can anyone confirm?). If so, I strongly suspect his lawyer is a friend from schooldays so possibly getting mate's rates at this stage. Can't say that for the barrister though.

 

[Kimster]

According to this report, he hired the first solicitor on the 8th day?

http://www.news.com.au/national/hus...den-clay-goes-on/story-e6frfkvr-1226339293043

I also see in that report that he said his wife went missing because she was "depressed". I've heard that one before.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

IMO he is in fear alright but of who?

IMO, I do think there may be more involved than simple Mistress or Domestic Violence escalation. I do think there could be concern for reputation when all is bought out and/or because there are others involved. I don't know if I think pre meditation or accidental..could be either. Possibly there was something going on within the couples lives(not meaning DV) that has got them involved in a situation, where Allisons life has been threatened(as in threats made) and ended up in her life being taken. Or a situation they were in lead to her accidental death. But IMO you are stupid to cover it up by dumping a body and declare her missing, rather than fess up in the beginning. So Husband may or may not have caused her death. Maybe something he was involved in led to her death- I would think you would have extreme guilt and remorse and even fear of that. Or He was a party to her death in some way, by having a hand in physically or otherwise.

But these are just some of my thoughts. I am keeping an open mind to the situation- or trying to.

 

[marlywings]

Someone indicated yesterday that he hired the lawyer after he had the accident driving the friend's car, i.e. 2 days after the wife went missing. The Barrister came into the picture I believe after the body was found.

On the day he reported her missing....

Within hours, Brookfield's streets were being combed by police. Residents were doorknocked several times by officers asking about a missing woman. One local, spoken to three times on the Friday, was told the couple had had an argument and Mrs Baden-Clay had left the house and not returned.

The Courier-Mail understands it was that day, as police searched for his wife, that Mr Baden-Clay contacted a lawyer. He is now represented by Gold Coast criminal lawyer Darren Mahony.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...baden-clays-call/story-e6freoof-1226341176705

 

[marlywings]

The Barrister came into the picture I believe after the body was found.

The barrister came into the picture the day Allison's body was found.


A "DEVASTATED'' Gerard Baden-Clay has hired a second lawyer on the same day police confirmed that his wife Allison had been murdered.

http://www.news.com.au/national/dev...er/story-e6frfkvr-1226344210265#ixzz1uFuQsYqu

 

[Kimster]

On the day he reported her missing....

Within hours, Brookfield's streets were being combed by police. Residents were doorknocked several times by officers asking about a missing woman. One local, spoken to three times on the Friday, was told the couple had had an argument and Mrs Baden-Clay had left the house and not returned.

The Courier-Mail understands it was that day, as police searched for his wife, that Mr Baden-Clay contacted a lawyer. He is now represented by Gold Coast criminal lawyer Darren Mahony.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...baden-clays-call/story-e6freoof-1226341176705

:tyou: The report I found made it look like it was 8 days later. I appreciate you looking up that link!

 

[Kimster]

:welcome3:

A big welcome to our guests! I hope you'll consider joining Websleuths and brainstorm with us as we try to figure out what happened to Allison.

 

[AllyG]

:tyou: The report I found made it look like it was 8 days later. I appreciate you looking up that link!

He hired a lawyer on the first day she went missing, and then a barrister on the day her body was found.

Being a mod on a site like this, would you say that this is typical behaviour of people who have had a family member go missing?

 

[CaseClosed]

Police can't just photogrpah or order the examination of a person. They need a warrant or consent. His lawyers will have resisted. A refusal to submit to such an examination without a warrant cannot later be used as evidence of a consciousness of guilt on the part of an accused. Usually a forensic pathologist will look for signs of defensive wounds on the corpse and investigators will look for possible defensive wounds on suspects. If GBC has consented to examination then they will have photographed the alleged scratches and measured them, noting the depth at each end and making calculations as to the force and angle of the object(s) which caused the trauma. The data from these examinations can often give a very reliable indication as to the height of the person who inflicted the wounds and whether they were offensive or defensive. Facial and torso scratches are very often seen on assailants who strangle a person either by hand or by means of a ligature. There are very often deeper lacerations on the scalp under the hair. This is less often the case where the strangulation takes place on the ground, but not unheard of. If done while standing up, rater than prone, the assailant wil have had both hands occupied and not have been able to use their kness to restraint the victim's arms. Apart from DNA evidence under the nails of the deceased, there can also be nail polish and other chemicals found in the scratches. Without a ligature it takes quite a while to asppyxiate someone and the panic reflex can give the victim enormous strength from adrenlaine release. If strangled while standing up, there can often also be bruises around the legs and groin of the assailant from blows from the victim's legs.

Thank you. Your posts are always very interesting. Do you know if it is easier for a forensic pathologist to identify strangulation or asphyxia by covering mouth/nose with an object?