Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #6

[Susan12]

Just thinking out loud.... Hypothetically if the person responsible for ABC's death was not GBC, say it was the mistress, and he had no involvement in her demise then if GBC was involved in covering it up in any way then in my view that's quite disrespectful to Allison and his daughters. I'm not sure who is responsible for ABC's death but based on GBC's behavior when she was missing I can't help but wonder if he at least knows something about what did happen.

If he is innocent of everything though, imagine what he must be going through losing his wife and being under suspicion. Probably not good for what sounds to have already been a struggling business too.

Hopefully the truth will be revealed, whatever that may be.

 

[CaseClosed]

Is it feasible to believe that a 6ft tall woman could easily overpower and strangle a woman of say 5' 6"? Yeah, I know - it would depend on how strong each of them were. Just thinking out loud is all.

I don't think so. Women would probably hit, punch the head, grab the hair, grab a rock, kick, etc. Not strong enough to strangulate.

 

[CaseClosed]

Just a thought.

TM is tall and quite stocky (have seen several open houses with her) and could have easily overpowered me (I'm the same height as Allison). She has a distinctive appearance (gap between front teeth) and is divorced with kids.

Maybe GBC has been helping the police - as the accessory to the murder?

I would think it is the other way around: TM helping the police with all she knows, trying to save her own skin.

 

[CJ60]

ooh snap - the canoeing guide I linked a few days back, had detailed instructions about how to navigate that last turn, since apparently it's a bit of a doozy. (under the photo it says "turn right after tree - caution!")
Landing spot "past the bridge on the left at a gravel bank" is just past where A was found.
_________
http://www.upstreampaddle.com/kholo.html

"Note that at the very end just before Kholo, there is a long pool 4 kilometre long. Here the river blind alleys, and the flowing stream moves right 400 metres before the dead end. Keep close to the right bank to pick the turn. Just downstream, stay clear of the pump station, and land either on the upstream side of the bridge on the right, or past the bridge on the left at a gravel bank. Note that vehicles are not secure overnight at this location. Further downstream is a restricted area, being water backupped from the Mt. Crosby water treatment plant weir."
________

I think you are in the wrong part of the river; this is upstream from the Weir.
This is Burtons Bridge to Kholo Bridge. May sound stupid - but Kholo Bridge and Kholo Creek Crossing are two totally different places. I will find a map with both on if I can.

 

[AllyG]

That's about 5'5/5'6

She was the same height as me

 

[Neuromancer]

this kyaking link is actually to a different area - she was found under the kholo creek bridge on mt crosby rd in brisbane - the weblink is to kholo bridge over the brisbane river at muirlea which is in ipswich. if you look at the info map on that site, the site she was found at would be off to the far right way off the map. you need to look for mt crosby road kholo creek bridge on suburb boundary of anstead/mt crosby

Oh gosh! so it is - thanks!

 

[itsthevibe]

And let's get something straight for anyone feeling sorry for the killer.....strangulation isn't an accidental escalation of DV, pushing and falling and hitting a head could be......but strangulation is rage....choking the life out of someone to quench their life out, holding their throat squeezing as hard as you can, gritting your teeth and going for broke as they try and scratch back possibly kneeing you in the ribs, fighting for life as he tries to extinguish hers...I'm sure you have all seen it in movies....

Don't offer him sympathy he doesn't deserve it, not one bit!

YES!! Exactly. And this issue has been bugging me for days as I read and hear more and more casually worded comments as if - if it wasn't premeditated it was accidental. There are a lot of horrific MURDERS which are neither pre-meditated nor accidental. If it is not pre-meditated, that doesnt mean you didnt murder them, didnt want to silence them by killing and, as Greg described, make a concerted effort to ensure they were dead.

So, it can very often mean that even if you didnt plan to murder them in advance, at the time of killing you did what had to be done to make sure of it, despite your victims pleas or their fight for life, and you looked at them and saw the terror in their face and it didnt have any affect on you, or might have ven made you feel powerful, it certainly didn't stop you, you just kept going until you were sure there was no life left in them. Then after the fact you might have thought, oh s*** I've changed my mind!

Murder by a partner, for example, is the ultimate DV escalation. If it is strangulation or smothering well as Greg has described with strangulation it takes an effort to ensure the person is killed, and who smothers someone accidentally for gods sake? From the reports about the body it appears Allison wasn't bludgeoned or stabbed to death so IMO accidental has nothing to do with it.

What is the world coming to when people can chat so casually and thoughtlessly about this aspect of it? A sign we are becoming conditioned to violence and not thoughtful enough about the seriousness of domestic violence and what it can lead to. Or a sign of just general slackness and not taking seriously the importance of language used? I'm going to take a break and cool my anger as a rational, responsible adult would do. Unlike murderers who choose to allow their feelings, desires and emotions to run rampant and destroy and ruin peoples lives.

And yes, i am well aware there are some legal defenses regarding diminished responsibility and heat of rage sort of stuff. I don't know all the details of those laws but I'm pretty sure they have been applied too laxly in many cases.

NOTE - This post falls where it may, not reacting to the most recent posts, or any particular post other than the one quoted as I'm still catching up with about 7 pages to go.

 

[TheStupidTree]

I don't think so. Women would probably hit, punch the head, grab the hair, grab a rock, kick, etc. Not strong enough to strangulate.

I think they can. Adrenalin does amazing things. Also if you're straddling someone and using body weight.

Kinda don't wanna think about it actually..

 

[clem1970]

I don't think so. Women would probably hit, punch the head, grab the hair, grab a rock, kick, etc. Not strong enough to strangulate.

I agree. IMO the only way a woman could strangle another woman is if a garotte was used or if the woman had unusually large and strong hands. Strangulation does not just happen in a few seconds like they show in the movies.

 

[Makara]

I don't think so. Women would probably hit, punch the head, grab the hair, grab a rock, kick, etc. Not strong enough to strangulate.

Yeah, I know I would put up one hell of a fight.

Scenario: Grabbed around the throat enough to cause significent damage, head banged on hard surface enough to cause death?

I dont mean to be disrespectful and I apologise to the squeamish but I'm hypothesing here.

 

[CaseClosed]

Just thinking out loud.... Hypothetically if the person responsible for ABC's death was not GBC, say it was the mistress, and he had no involvement in her demise then if GBC was involved in covering it up in any way then in my view that's quite disrespectful to Allison and his daughters. I'm not sure who is responsible for ABC's death but based on GBC's behavior when she was missing I can't help but wonder if he at least knows something about what did happen.

If he is innocent of everything though, imagine what he must be going through losing his wife and being under suspicion. Probably not good for what sounds to have already been a struggling business too.

Hopefully the truth will be revealed, whatever that may be.

My thinking is, if he did not do it, but helped with cover-up, he is as guilty as the person who did it and deserves the full force of the law. But, IMO, the other woman (if any) has nothing to do with it, except now provide info to assist police. If there is an accomplice, it would be someone in his family iMO.

 

[AllyG]

Ok guys good work on this bit , let me add to it a little. On the day that an ex colleague ( female ) appointed a lawyer , the news grabs for the channel 10 Brisbane 5 pm news had pictures of a large unit block as they were talking about this . MSM connection here. Now if you were a real estate type and had access to that database that contains all the sales information for the 3 transactions that involved the said person , (and yeah they look like they took a small loss
on that one ) , the vendors details for that record an address , now if you look at the details of that last known address for the person it looks like the unit block featured in those news grabs and for me ties in that person as the one helping with enquiries . I hope this helps .

ARgh! I've had too many glasses of wine and reading that broke my brain.

 

[mumof2]

I think you are in the wrong part of the river; this is upstream from the Weir.
This is Burtons Bridge to Kholo Bridge. May sound stupid - but Kholo Bridge and Kholo Creek Crossing are two totally different places. I will find a map with both on if I can.

thats what i just said - cant find anything on that section

 

[CaseClosed]

I agree. IMO the only way a woman could strangle another woman is if a garotte was used or if the woman had unusually large and strong hands. Strangulation does not just happen in a few seconds like they show in the movies.

Exactly, it takes a few minutes.

 

[DreamAWish]

First post.. Read every single post from day one though (yes completely obsessed like so so many others with this tragic story and so want whoever did this to Allison to be brought to justice). I registered while Allison was still missing - hence the tag name - hoping she would be found safe and sound and be brought home to her beautiful little daughters. I'm a local, have seen the century21 white 4WD running around over time, parked beside it at at the supermarket, recognise faces, probably know people who know people, etc.. although I do not know the family myself.

What I would like to say is this:

Someone mentioned a thread or 2 ago that America has their Marilyn Munro, the UK has their Princess Diana and we have our Allison... When I read that I realised that is exactly how I feel. I don't ever remember a news story that has ever touched me as much as this one has.. Perhaps its being a local, perhaps its being being a similar age and perhaps its because I relate to the person Allison was as described by her family/best friend. We meet people everyday, some have no affect whatsoever on us and we barely remember meeting them, others touch our world in some way because of some sort of interaction, many touch our hearts fleetingly or forever and then there are some we keep in our prayers at night and never forget. That's the way I feel about Allison.

I listened to the GBC interview 10 times or more and I'm certain he said "they've got three young girls" and then he realized his error. Who knows how you would feel in such a situation. He may well have been at the point of looking on the whole situation as an outsider would hence his verbal error.. Whether he is guilty or innocent, gee.. you would have to remove yourself just to mentally cope wouldn't you?

Would like to see maverick.com come back, Angel1 too.. Both passionate sleuthers. Had an inkling maverick.com and keyboredom were one and the same but who knows and at the end of the day does it matter? Enjoyed both points of view..

Undoubtedly my one and only post... Keep up the good work sleuths!

 

[Neuromancer]

Definitely not over side of bridge; possible at site of bridge

Oh yes should have stipulated - never thought over side of bridge was possible. Too public and dangerous to stop on the bridge itself.

 

[Bayside]

It's so sad for Allison's girls that it's Mother's Day tomorrow.

I hope police are able to get more evidence and move faster than the Max Sica arrest did.

The perpetrator sure was lucky the body wasn't found for ten days so a lot of evidence would have been lost.

It is a shame she wasnt found earlier, i dont think the killer expected her to be found at all.

 

[bikerchick]

ARgh! I've had too many glasses of win and reading that broke my brain.

Ally, the location of those Unit Blocks is where she was last working as a real estate agent. HTH

 

[AllyG]

Ally, the location of those Unit Blocks is where she was last working as a real estate agent. HTH

Ah cool. Thanks And thanks for not poking fun at my "glasses of win" comment. I'm sure tomorrow they wont feel like win at all uke:

 

[CJ60]

thats what i just said - cant find anything on that section

Yeah, cheers! Just seen your first post. Trying to find a map of Kholo Creek